Type of AF

[CathieC]

Type of AF. I see from the multiple posts on this site that there are several different types of AF. I asked my GP for the full title of my condition and was bluntly told that I have AF and don't need to know anymore. If I don't need to know anymore why am I bothering to search for information. How else am I going to find out so I can help myself?

[beardy_chris]

AF is a mongrel condition that affects different people very differently. The term Atrial Fibrillation describes what the heart is doing but says nothing about why it is doing it or what affects that might have. In simple terms (because that is all I understand - and others I'm sure will correct me), there is paroxymal AF which comes and goes and persistent AF which sticks around for a week or more - often much more.

The big difference is that paroxymal AF can last from seconds to hours and, often, is triggered by something or things. If you can learn what triggers it, you may be able to have some sort of control of it. It seems that, over the past few weeks, people have talked about paroxymal AF that comes on when they relax or when they exercise - and some people seem to have both!

So, you probably need to identify what type of AF you have. I have learned all of the above from this site and from various searches of the net. You don't need to know any more to find out more about your condition for yourself.

Good Luck!

[BobD Volunteer]

Sorry to burst your bubble but AF is AF. The problem is that it is a mongrel condition which affects all of us differently. What it is, is an electrical circuitry error within the heart where instead of contracting in a regular manner, the left atria writhes like bag of worms and fails to provide the ventricle with enough blood to pump, hence the irregular pulse. Now that is that as far as what it is and there is only one type. Where you are getting mixed messages is in the area of triggers. For some people exercise can trigger events whilst for others it is relaxation. The so called vagal AF normally is linked to digestive triggers or when the vagal tone is low as during relaxation or sleep. The Vagus nerve is the main neural superhighway between brain and heart plus stomach so it is possible for what affects one to affect the other.

It can't give you AF unless you have the predisposition to it in terms of the breakdown in pathways within your heart. This can occur from the natural process of ageing, over exercise (as in endurance athletes), damage from or the natural effect of surgery (valve replacement, bypass etc) where the normal structure of the heart has been altered or even by flying fighter jets for the RAF. (Probably a consequence of the heart working to combat g forces).

Yes, several things that can work to bringing it on but only one process.

Many people try endlessly to find a reason or a trigger that they can clutch at and some do find that by avoiding some foods or drinks they can reduce their intensity of number of events if they have the vagally induced type whilst other will find the chase to be a failure. My EP told me ten years ago not to waste my time looking as the condition was so varied that I may never track down a trigger so I concentrated on accepting his advice and treatment plan which involved three ablations and several cardioversions. Six years down the line and six years AF free I'm glad I did.

Bob

[cat55]

Hi CathieC, I couldn't agree with you more. I have spent many years in blissful A.F. ignorance without Dr's not telling me much. Eventually knew I needed more information and help this year (hence my numerous questions).This is the place to come as everyone is so helpful , supportive and knowledgeable. As BobD and Ian always says knowledge is power, Your Dr. is wrong, there is a wealth of first hand knowledge available here and I haven't been made to think my questions are daft. Read the medical articles as well but we are all dealing with the day to day problems that A.F can bring with it. Best wishes cat

[Hidden]

Hiya CathieC .... well I think your doctor is talking rubbish. Total rubbish. Yes, you have AF, it maybe paroxysmal or permanent or whatever. Some people have other medical conditions, some people like endurance athletes are super fit but still get AF. Others have lived a normal life and have been reasonably fit but they get it. Some have AF and do not know they are actually in AF, i.e. they have no feelings or sensations indicating they are experiencing an AF event. Then there is this mystical thing called predisposition - in my case there appears to be a genetic predisposition to this AF thingy - a number of family members have been diagnosed with it (apart from my daughter) and on one particular side of the family strokes are common.

In other words your 'type' of AF is unique to you. In my experience, because of this uniqueness, you are better off listening, and listening very carefully to messages your body is trying to send to you. Again in my experience you could start with a bit of analysis and try and separate CAUSE OF and TRIGGERED BY - the two are different in my non medical/non scientific opinion. I feel yes - there is a cause of AF but that cause may well be different to later triggers. A couple of examples, me and my daughter (aged 32). In her case she is a health freak and is a jogger. Her first AF came from her first pregnancy. Worsened after her second pregnancy and continues. That's her cause - her later triggers come from stress (sadly her private life is at a very traumatic stage at the moment so that's not surprising) but apart from medication she chooses to deal with it by going to a gym for 'Adreneline pumping kick boxing'. In effect she works through it, not sure of the long term effects of this but it suits her and keeps her fit AND happy.

In my case - and again - from my non medical/non scientific perspective my cause was carrying my mobile phone in my shirt pocket (top left, over the heart). In effect I was in a sense - micro waving my heart. Did this for 2 & half years during which time I developed palpitations, then massive palpitations. I only stopped this when I heard a radio programme discussing electro sensitivity. Too late alas, then came - right out of the blue - AF. Thing is I figured the palpitations were occupation based - I was a bus driver at the time - stress and all that. Later triggers emerged about 6 months after diagnosis - I began to associate the onset of an AF event with digestive system disorders. Got tested by my GP for IBS and Coeliac Disease and was offered more tests but declined. Went to a nutrionist and started a completely different food programme plus taking some probiotic powders. Now a further 4 years down the track I am virtually clear. sure get palpitations every now and then, sure the Bisoprolol slows my heart down far too much (down to 46 bpm) and I feel like death itself occasionally - won't be cured that's for sure but I have it all reasonably controlled. Might add I'm still working driving buses and have no problem in passing my PCV (bus drivers) medical each year. Just not driving full time now doing 8 to 10 hour shifts.

Now my approach won't work for everyone - not at all - but frankly from posts I've read on here nor will going to a GP, Consultant or and EP. They are part of the FORD brigade (Fix Or Repair Daily) - they aren't really interested in telling you about cause or triggers - they are just technicians trying to restore a quality of life. Just like me taking my Nissan to my Nissan dealer with a problem. They are not really interested in cause - just fiddle with the problem and repair it. Then give you your car back - hopefully - fixed.

There is nothing wrong with searching for the answers you are seeking - if that's what you as a unique individual want to do - bloody well do it. But step out of the box - don't just use this forum, or the AFA website go and explore what the whole wide world is doing and don't stop questioning or challenging either - if you do stop this you might just miss that piece of magic which works for you

Don't forget, to listen to your body give yourself some quiet time.

Apologies for this load of rambling on - and good luck.

Aussie John

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

A really interesting post Aussie John which I'm sure will ring true. with many. I liked the FORD bit! For myself though I am very symptomatic and really need medical attention. I am hoping that probiotics will help me. Sandra

[CathieC in reply to Hidden]

thank you Aussie John. Your response has helped a great deal. Thank you. CathieC

[Loo53]

Great advice as always from the AF forumers.

[iris1205]

Very good answers- the one that is not acceptable is your doctor's!

He is leaving you powerless. if that is the state in which he would prefer his patients- I'd change doctors.

I know when we arrive with millions of bits of information for them to sort out it is time consuming - but don't our hearts (and minds) deserve such?!

Take good care and get the cnswers you need to feel comfortable with your decisions.

[Tobw in reply to iris1205]

Agree entirely with you - that's a disgraceful attitude from Cathie's GP.

[CathieC in reply to iris1205]

they have been good answers and very helpful. My GP is a bit blunt and to the point but I do respect him. he has been v good when I had bowel cancer and he saw me through it. plus where I live v difficult to change my GP. maybe his bluntness is what made me investigate further. Thank you for your response. CathieC

[iris1205 in reply to CathieC]

I understand, not always an easy option in such a case. At the very least, let him know you require more information, this getting to know "your" AF can be a long process. If he was there for you for the cancer then perhaps he is trying to protect you. The cancer and the AF will have forged into steel by now, let him know you need answers and perhaps he will come around! All the best.

[CathieC in reply to iris1205]

Thank you

[Hidden]

Some great answers here, I love this forum, there are always people who are ready and willing to help - unlike your doctor. Either he/she likes having the power of knowledge all to themselves, or they don't know anything and are unwilling to display their ignorance. Either way, it's not good! It might also affect your treatment, if they are unwilling to discuss anything. If you can find another, more sympathetic doctor locally then I too would suggest it might be worthwhile.

As for the AF, when you read the answers here you'll see it's about self-discovery, with help from the experience of others. It's one condition, but unique to everyone in the way it presents and the triggers (if you can find one, or many, or none). Best of luck with your investigations - and if you ever have any questions, you know where to come

Lis

[fuzzflyer]

I have no idea what type of AF I have, I went to a private doctor for a medical, he found an issue with the ECG ( irregular heartbeat) and refered me to my GP surgery in Ross on wye. I have not been told anything except that I need to go to a warfarin clinic to get my blood thinned.

After four weeks on 6mg pd. I have an INR of 2.5. And that's the extent of my knowledge.. Great to have this site to help understand but I see I will have to seek out better/more info . I must add, I had no real systems, I get out of breath pretty quick, but often do strenuous walks up to 8 miles with no real issues again. I can feel my pulse is irregular. And if I drank too much wine I would feel a " burbling" in my heart area. But that's it. Possibly too early to see an EP? I Now have a coagchec monitor to go along with the clinic tests. dr refuses to prescribe INR strip? Roach say they should be available on the NHS?

[CathieC]

thank you

[Therealsue]

I always think that it's good to have some knowledge of these problems and why we're taking whatever drugs we're on. When my EP suggested ablation, I knew a bit about it but not much. He explained what it was but actively encouraged me to go away and read about it. By the time I had my abalation, I'd read so much I could probably have performed the procedure myself!! on a more serious note though, due to a cock up with my GP surgery, if I hadn't known why I was taking warfarin, I would have been taken off it 10 days post ablation. Not good.