Advanced prostrate cancer diet

[Rahul_Patel]

Should advanced prostrate cancer patients avoid Egg and dairy products?

I am little confused.

[Tall_Allen]

There is not good enough evidence that avoiding dairy will help you in any way with prostate cancer.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I could have shown you "evidence" in the other direction too.

As for eggs, several studies found that men who eat a LOT of eggs had more progression than men who ate few eggs. But men who eat few eggs may be more attentive to their cardiovascular health and their health in general, and may be better at getting treatment.

This is the problem with almost all such diet studies. They only show associations, but not what the true causative factors are. The "evidence" you may have seen is very poor quality, and is often contradictory.

So what to do?

Avoid excess of any single source of protein. We are omnivores- we evolved to eat almost everything. Don't fight evolution - eat a variety of proteins, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, etc. If you eat for good cardiovascular health, you will be eating for good prostate health. It is your overall health that is much more important in living with cancer than any individual item in your diet. Don't deprive yourself- be good to yourself- you deserve it.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you Tall_Allen for such a beautiful explanation..

So moderation is the key I guess.

👍👍

[Hidden]

6 plus years ago I was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. PSA was 850, mets all over and lymph nodes were heavily involved. To this day I have continued to eat 2 eggs a week, put cheese on my homemade pizza, etc. My PSA is currently less than .1 and my scans remain clean. I'm not going to deprive myself of the foods I enjoy for a supposed 3 extra months of life. I'm not going to be on my deathbed wishing that I had eaten a cheese pizza and 2 scrambled eggs a week. Life is short, cancer or not. Enjoy your life.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Hidden]

Beautifully explained ☺️☺️

Thank you Hidden ..

[Hidden in reply to Rahul_Patel]

Thank you sir.

[LearnAll]

Animal fat and animal proteins tend to increase systemic inflammation in the body and thus indirectly can promote cancer cell growth. Plant based foods provide anti cancer substances such as Quercetin, Resveratrol, lycopene, EGCG, thymoquinol, curcumanoids, Gingerols, many vitamins and minerals and a whole lot of various polyphenols and flavonoids.Plant based diet is certainly better for men with PCa. People who are habituated to eating meat have hard time quiting so they vehemently oppose what I am saying. But that's fine..its their right to counterargue.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to LearnAll]

Thank you LearnAll for elaborating the benefits of vegetarian diet.

I am trying to include lots of veggies in my diet.I am totally avoiding red meat.

I am eating fish/poultry in moderation.

[Hidden]

For me, eating the foods I enjoy is a quality of life issue, I think if you are going to sacrifice quality of life, there needs to be science-based evidence of a benefit. That applies to treatments, diets and other things.

When it comes to prostate cancer and diet, there isn't much evidence to support showing a benefit for diet. But regardless of that, eating healthy overall is still beneficial. There are plenty of other reasons to eat healthy such as avoiding diabetes and heart disease. I enjoy plant-based foods, but also eat meat. Like with everything, there is the "point of diminishing returns". You can eat healthy without going to extremes.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Hidden]

Thank you Hidden

I got your point.

👍

Moderation is the key.

[dhccpa in reply to Hidden]

I understand your view. However, have you read the diet guidelines from Mayo, UCSF, or the Prostate Cancer Foundation. They do everything but say no meat, no dairy (can't recall on eggs, but I don't eat them), and seem to be moving in that direction. Worth a look when 3 and maybe more med institutions recommend a certain diet.

[Hidden in reply to dhccpa]

Just read an article by UCSF. They say to "limit" meat consumption, not eliminate it. I'm sorry, but there is a big difference there. They talk about the misconception of "food as medicine". Here's the article:

ucsf.edu/magazine/guide-to-...

As for Mayo Clinic, they write: You don’t have to stop eating red meat entirely, but the bulk of your diet should consist of vegetables, fruits, nuts, legumes and whole grains.

newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/...

As I have said, eating healthy is a good idea, limiting meat consumption, processed foods, etc. but I really see there is a slippery slope here and people start making unsubstantiated claims and advocating unproven, extreme diets. We all need to scrutinize claims of the "diet religions" promoted here.

[dhccpa in reply to Hidden]

I wouldn't make curative claims for food against already raging tumors. But the lingo of "limit meat " is a big sloping step from where docs were a few years ago. And they don't want to anger or demonize any constituency.

[Hidden in reply to dhccpa]

Unless I read it wrong, you claimed that UCSF and Mayo say not to eat meat or dairy. Can you provide a link to where UCSF and Mayo clinic said not to eat meat or dairy? I searched, but couldn't find one.

I did see where UCSF say to "limit meat" and Mayo says "go easy on the eggs" but you do understand that there is a difference between less and none, right? It's an important distinction, not splitting hairs.

[dhccpa in reply to Hidden]

I say they do everything but say that , but I was following the trend of what they say compared to what medicine has historically said. They probably should be more specific, because to a meat eater or a milk drinker that word means something different than to a vegan. Medicine is a very political profession in their guidelines.

[rscic]

Tall_Allen's explanation is a good one to which I have a couple things to add:

1---many people with Prostate Cancer do not die of Prostate Cancer so, as Tall_Allen says, your overall health is more important.

2---Questions to ask yourself:

----since the science is not definitive, will eliminating eggs & dairy be harmful to me??

----what are the long lived populations (or at least the low Prostate Cancer incidence populations) doing (lifestyle) & eating (diet)????

----will any dietary change POTENTIALLY improve my overall health and not just my health in relation to Prostate Cancer????

There are so many dietary things we do not know at this time & the way forward from a dietary standpoint appears to be somewhat of a guess .... at least in some individual's minds. With diet, if something is potentially detrimental, without any downsides from eliminating it from the diet, one cannot be wrong if they eliminate it. Unfortunately, in many cases we do not have much more to go on.

Just some thoughts

[Rahul_Patel in reply to rscic]

Thank you rscic

Beautiful explanation.

I got your point..We should take care of our overall health and have balanced diets.If something is causing problem,we should avoid it.

👍

[rscic in reply to Rahul_Patel]

Personally, I have eliminated meat & dairy & largely consume a whole food plant diet. The longest lived groups of people in the world consume a similar diet , though many of these also consume meat in very small amounts 4 to 8 times per month.

I do this because of the data collected on long lived peoples (Blue Zones) which is supported by the fact the contaminants (pesticides, etc.) in our world are more concentrated the farther one moves up the food chain (basic Jr High Biology). So, if one eats low on the food chain (plants .... particularly organic plants) they will get, fewer contaminants, than if they eat higher on the food chain (for example, eat the animals who would eat the plants).

Diet does make a difference. Any hunter will tell you a corn fed deer (lives in the fence rows along corn fields) will have a different/better quality to their muscle/meat vs a deer who lives in and eats the food available in a swamp.

Diet is not a cure-all, particularly on an individual basis, but statistically may stack the odds in my favor particularly for the largest killer CardioVascular Disease (Heart Disease & Stroke) and also lessens my risk (though does not eliminate it) for dementia (some believe the low blood flow through atherosclerotic arteries to the brain slowly kills brain cells via lack of oxygen).

I have found I have to pay attention to my B12 status, my omega 3 consumption and insure I get sufficient protein (I consume a pea protein powder to insure I get enough protein ..... I am conscious of how many protein grams I get each day) as I am very active and train for IRONMAN Triathlons (2.4 mile swim + 112 mile bike + 26.2 mile run = 140.6 miles ..... these take me around 11 to 12 hours to complete .... I race as a 70 yr. old & will be 70 in Nov.).

This is what I do & why. Your situation may differ. However, IMO whatever you do you should have reasons supported by what little data we might have at this time.

Just some thoughts.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to rscic]

Than you so much rscic

Your post is very informative and inspirational.

I will keep these points in mind.

👍

[rscic in reply to Rahul_Patel]

GOOD LUCK

[Currumpaw]

Hey Rahul_Patel!

Read about Dr. Ruth Heidrich.

I have done well being vegan for over three years.

Currumpaw

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Currumpaw]

Thanks Currumpaw

I will read about Ruth heidrich's view on Cancer diet.

👍

[Magnus1964]

I use almond mike and a dairy free butter. However, I hate soy cheese so real cheese, yes. Everything in moderation.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Magnus1964]

Yep! Everything in moderation👍

Thank you Magnus1964

[Tony666]

What I do is take 3 eggs and throw away 2 of the three yolks. The remaining yolk gives the eggs full flavor but it’s much more healthy. Then chop up a button mushroom which helps to suppress prostate cancer. Add in salt and pepper.

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Tony666]

Yep! Finally I have convinced my father to throw away the yolk.

It was difficult but finally he agreed.

Thank you Tony666

👍

[Explorer08]

Eating and exercising in a healthy manner is always great advice as so many here have indicated. I have eliminated egg yolks since prostate cancer cells are avid for Choline which is found in abundance in egg yolks. In fact, that is why Mayo Clinic uses Choline in its C-11 PET scan! Egg white omelets with lots of veggies has been satisfying for me. I also tend to follow Dr. Charles Myers book, "The New Prostate Cancer Nutrition Book." Great advice and good recipes. I have a nice steak once a month but otherwise pretty much stick with fish and some chicken. Frankly, I wish I'd done that decades ago! I do have a little bit of hard cheese, now and then, but limit that to just bites of very high quality cheese. My last glass of milk was in 1979 due to a bout of IBS and diverticulitis - - milk?? - never again!

[Rahul_Patel in reply to Explorer08]

Thank you so much Explorer08

I used the same point which you shared about use of choline in pet scan to my father and he is finally convinced.

This was very useful.Thanks a ton

👍

[Hidden]

I agree. That's how I try to eat.

[Hidden]

Sad to see someone buying into the diet-cure religion. I have a friend who died doing that. I bring him up occasionally so he's not forgotten. The anecdotal statistics folks don't include people like him, only the so-called "success stories".

[j-o-h-n]

Don't forget the red lentil dahl.........Eat whatever you want........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 03/23/2021 5:29 PM DST

[Hidden in reply to j-o-h-n]

This is what I recommend:

thekitchn.com/tillamookies-...

[j-o-h-n in reply to Hidden]

Error!!! Shoot!!!

Maybe there's something we can substitute? Kind of like chia seeds instead of egg.

Whoops! Apparently that page doesn't exist. (Error Code 404)

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 03/23/2021 9:45 PM DST

[Canoehead]

“Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.” Michael Pollan

[Rahul_Patel]

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.

I am in this group as my father has been diagnosed with advanced prostrate cancer with bone mets recently.

His Gleason score was 9 and PSA-310.

I feel so grateful to have joined this group and interact with some amazing people who have immense knowledge on advanced PCa.

I am trying to get as much info as I can.

People are so graceful in this forum.

Thank you guys.Thank you so much.