Is any one supplementing with Genestein ?
Genestein: Is any one supplementing... - Advanced Prostate...
Genestein
Written by
lewicki
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
48 Replies
•
Genistein
Yes. 1-2 cups of organic soymilk several days a week.
Read this first:
"This study revealed that dietary intake of isoflavones was associated with an elevated risk of advanced prostate cancer."
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
• in reply toTall_Allen
What quantity of isoflavones would a man have to consume on a daily/weekly basis to cause the spread of prostate cancer?
Dr. Zhang: Our study examined the effect of total and individual isoflavones on the occurrence of prostate cancer. It could not evaluate the influence of isoflavone intake on the spread of prostate cancer.
• in reply to
Did the study show that consuming isoflavones can cause prostate cancer?
Dr. Zhang: Our study showed that higher intake of total isoflavones and some individual isoflavones (namely genistein, daidzein and glycitein) were associated with an increased risk of advanced prostate cancer, but no association was found for patients with non-advanced prostate cancer or for overall prostate cancer risk. Little is known about the role of phytoestrogens in the spread of prostate cancer and our study did not investigate this question due to the nature of the study and lack of data on serum testosterone.
Tall_Allen• in reply to
So if it is a known risk factor for APC, why would anyone risk it?
• in reply toTall_Allen
All that is inferred from this study is that significantly higher median intake was associated with APC. We know nothing about median intake and for me personally less than median...I did not eat soy before my diagnosis. Only added some for complete protein intake after going on a plant based diet.
This study is totally silent on consumption after APC and particularly after APC and on ADT.
We know high consumption of alcohol is associated with higher incidence of cancer and moderate consumption is not.
For me, high consumption of anything should be avoided.
Tall_Allen• in reply to
You seem to miss my point? I agree that it is evidence of association, not causation. There is no evidence either way about causation. So with evidence of an association with APC, why would anyone with APC take it?
• in reply toTall_Allen
I got your point. I just disagree with you about soy and APC.Every study that finds an association between soy and pca always concludes it's high consumption of soy. No association is made with median to low consumption.
We know high exposure to the sun is associated with skin cancer but one would never say avoid the sun even if you had skin cancer.
I wouldn't take supplements to add isoflavones to my diet.
Ok. Dead horse kicked enough.
I agree.
In an imperfect world, with incomplete and imperfect information, you do what you can.
• in reply tocesces
A perfect world has complete and perfect information.
• in reply toTall_Allen
Question for you...what is meant by higher intake of isoflavones? Clearly it doesn't mean no intake.
Is two cups of soy milk a day considered high?
• in reply to
Subjects who were diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer had a significantly higher median intake of total isoflavones, genistein, daidzein, glycitein, formononetin and biochanin A than those who were not diagnosed with prostate cancer during follow‐up (all p ≤0.044).
Most response and studies imply to best leave it alone.
• in reply tolewicki
Other than TAs study, what most studies were you referring too?
There also appears to be information about Genistein helping minimize metastases. Genistein inhibits human prostate cancer cell detachment, invasion, and metastasis1,2,3,4
IMO...Moderate consumption of Soy in its natural or fermented form is harmless...with potential to help somewhat. Excessive use of anything can be harmful. The problem with some of these studies is that they go to extreme and choose either excessive dose or too little dose..and that way, they are able to give people false alarm about perfectly fine natural substances. A glass or 2 of Soy Milk does body good.
Well... I'm curious! Because the soy intake of the Asian Male is certainly above the averaging for any of the other populations defined in the cohorts noted in the study. So if soy, or soy products, estrogen inducing variables "WERE" in fact associated with a higher probability for PCa, then why aren't we seeing evidence of rampant PCa among the Asian Male populace as a whole. We wouldn't need a study to create this association, no? So really, sometimes these types of studies are confusing because the data it validates is in direct conflict with practical observances in nature.
Some study quotes:
"Nevertheless, precise mechanisms for the effects of isoflavones on prostate cancer and particularly its advanced phenotype merit further investigation as it has been found that isoflavones have both estrogenic and anti‐estrogenic functions."
"Several limitations of the present study should be considered when interpreting the results obtained. Although dietary intake of total isoflavones, individual isoflavones and coumestrol was estimated using a food frequency questionnaire modified from the validated Willet and Block FFQs,37 it is well known that recall errors often occur in questionnaire‐based dietary assessment. Such dietary measurement errors, if non‐differential, could result in an attenuation of the strength of the associations of interest. Thus, the associations found in this study may be conservative. In addition, dietary intake of total isoflavones, individual isoflavones and/or coumestrol may be underestimated due to inadequate coverage of all food items containing phytoestrogens in most available food composition databases. For example, soy additives are found in some processed foods,38 and certain isoflavones are naturally present in lower concentrations in commonly consumed foods such as vegetables,39 fruits and nuts.40 Therefore, it is possible that the isoflavones from these food products are underrepresented in the food composition databases and the actual impact of isoflavones on prostate cancer risk was thus not observed. The findings of the present study were based on a single dietary assessment. Thereby, it is also possible that some study subjects had changed their dietary habits during follow‐up, which might have somewhat distorted our reported effects of isoflavone intake on prostate cancer risk. Another limitation of using a dietary questionnaire to assess phytoestrogen nutritional status is that this method is unable to capture phytoestrogen metabolites (e.g., equol, O‐desmethylangolensin) produced by intestinal bacteria."
"As lignans substantially contribute to total phytoestrogen intake in Western diets, inability to investigate the effect of lignan intake on prostate cancer risk has somewhat weakened the impact of the present study."
"Finally, the exclusion of men in the control arm who were not asked to complete a food frequency questionnaire should have not substantially reduced the generalizability of our obtained results as men in the intervention arm and the control arm were overall comparable with regard to demographic, anthropometric, socioeconomic and lifestyle factors due to the successful implementation of randomization in the PLCO."
So...
The study admits to the up and down possibilities with respect to isoflavones/soy and prostate cancer.
Studies based upon questionnaires are known to have a very high degree of inaccuracies. Also, the excluded food groups represent an unknown and unchartered effect upon the study.
Isoflavone Ligands are excluded from the study, ie, green tea, etc.
Exclusion of a group who were not asked to complete the questionnaires... Interesting and leads to why!? Because as noted, the randomized responses from those who did, provided the information the study was looking to achieve. But that's pretty telling because would those answers then skew the data?
Again, interesting, and I'll dig through the references as well, because I've always been a cynic and love to dig around the details! But to dismiss the Asian and Eastern diet with it's low incidence of PCa among the population (male) there is something confusing, as if this study was taken at it's word, they should have a higher degree of PCa, let alone advanced!
Call me a skeptic 
Best Regards
• in reply toCooolone
You can find this in many research articles on soy and pca. Asians on average consume the equivalent of 50 mg of isoflavones a day. That is roughly 2 cups of soy milk per day.
Which is why I keep my consumption to no more than 2 cups per day, when consumed.
Cooolone...You have many valid points. Not only that prevalence of prostate cancer is much lower in Asian men ..even the rate of death from PCa is many folds lower than African or western men.Asian men who immigrate to USA and adopt western diet and life style within a few years develop the incidence and death rate from PCa which is almost equal to local population.
So what is the explanation....It is that diet and life style plays a significant role in PCa. Junk processed foods, lack of physical exercise, prolonged sitting, loneliness and job stress, insecurity in relationships are factors which make caucasian and African American men much more vulnerable to PCa and death by it in spite of availablity of so many expensive treatments. Diet rich in fresh vegetables and fruits, intake of spices, physical activity all day long and intact, harmonious family and friendships in a society...are protective factors.
Regarding countries that seem to have less prostate cancer with increased soy consumption, there are so many other factors to consider. For example, I think many of those same countries have fairly low consumption of dairy.
If you look at top-20 in dairy consumption and top-20 in PC rates, here is the overlap (and respective ranking): Sweden (4, 7), Switzerland (5, 20), Ireland (8,3), Estonia (10,5), Norway (12, 6), Luxembourg (15, 19). A few other countries with pretty high PC rates also do a lot of dairy: Australia, UK, France, Czechia, Latvia and Slovenia... pretty much most of Europe and North America! But probably plenty of exceptions, too.
So many correlations, so little time...
But personally, I think I may try to stay clear of cow milk AND soy milk.
Yes . Do you remember the ad drink milk , get prostate cancer with a picture of a person with milk on its face. Somehow I never see it anymore?
Never saw it before, so I looked it up... that person was Rudy G!
Noaware..I plan to continue my fermented milk AKA yogurt AKA Curd...I like the taste and it gives me best probiotics. Also, I put Rosemary powder, Parsley powder, Oragano powder, Thyme powder , Holy Basil powder and Cayenne powder in my big cup of Yogurt in morning.
I quit the 'soy' family entirely and the supplements specifically because I read MORE than once that a PCa patient should avoid them completely.
I needed to remind myself AND throw away bottles (again) that I had ordered after reading some post on the benefits.
IF studies repeat the message that 'soy' is to be avoided, I took it seriously the second and third times I read about it .
Perhaps it works for some , BUT not 4 this guy, this guy, being me.
I believe the real argument is that 'soy' can be / is preventative in nature, but once you've GOT IT, it no longer provides PREVENTATIVE effects.
Be careful out there ......
If I recall correctly, the beneficial soy in regard to PCa is fermented soy, not your regular stuff... I don't remember it's derivative, but I'm sure it can be searched. Again, soy being problematic is counterintuitive by disregarding those cultures which have a high soy consumption not having a corresponding high incidence of PCa
I should have mentioned that genistein is known to interfere with membrane proteins, like PSA and PSMA. Supplementation with it should be avoided by men using PSAs to monitor progression and by men pursuing PSMA-targeted detection or therapy.
prostatecancer.news/2019/04...
• in reply toTall_Allen
Now that I'm in complete agreement with you. No to supplements that caused a person to over consume a nutrient. No good.
I thought Genestein played center on the Jewish basketball team "The Sphas"....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/02/2021 7:52 PM EST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
That's so bad only Kaliber would laugh.👎
j-o-h-n• in reply to
He laughs?
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/02/2021 9:21 PM EST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
I don't think so
j-o-h-n• in reply to
That's what I thought....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/02/2021 9:25 PM EST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
Not sure what its called. All I know is its goes something like this
Yayayaahahaayaayahahayaya
j-o-h-n• in reply to
It's Kosher Rapp....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/02/2021 9:38 PM EST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
You would know...are you not the goy? Or something like that.
j-o-h-n• in reply to
Goy sh kop....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/02/2021 9:43 PM EST
