Fatigue we all have it. Looking for ways to beat it. Everyone says exercise. Need specifics.
Types of exercise/exercise machines you think are best. Maybe alternate to exercise if there is any.
I know for sure normal work(I’m a builder) doesn’t get it. For me the swelling in the feet throws the brakes on running or even long walks. Give me what works for you.
Thanks
Mike
What worked for me was jogging on a treadmill. Others have benefited from just walking. If you can't do that because of foot problems, how about bike riding? You can put your feet anywhere on the pedals that doesn't hurt. If that works, you might want to try a stationary bike. There are lots of them that aren't real expensive and, if you want you can get a pedaling system (no seat or handlebars) really cheap that you can stand on or put in front of a chair. You can watch TV, listen to music, or whatever while pedaling. I like to read books. It's possible to pedal with no resistance to speak of, but I think you get a lot more benefit by setting the resistance up to a reasonable level.
Weight lifting is also good, but I think you want something that works on endurance, as much or more than strength.
To my knowledge there are no drug treatments for the kind of fatigue caused by ADT. Exercise is still the best answer.
Good luck with it.
Alan
I have no problem on the fixed bikes. How long do you have to stay on it before you lose the fatigue feeling and how long before you need a booster.
It's going to be impossible to compare your fatigue level with other people and overall exercise tolerance. Some men have a lot of energy with prostate cancer and could run marathons. Others its a great success to walk a mile a day.
I would just worry about if you are improving when exercising. Do i feel better than last week? Is my strength improving? Do i feel that i could do more without feeling fatigued?
I wanted to do it at first, but I would never compare my fathers fatigue and overall wellness to others as an indication if he is doing good.
On an exercise bike you can vary the time on the bike, the resistance, and the speed. I'd start out at whatever you can handle and then keep increasing it. Eventually you won't be able to increase it, but hopefully you can keep it up at least three times a week. I'm betting that, at that point, you find that your fatigue is gone and you'll be feeling pretty good.
Alan
Starting tomorrow. 10 bucks a month for the membership. At least it’s cheap enough.
You will feel better right away . Not important to hit it hard . More important do do it daily .. I’ve slacked off due to hip pain . I’m getting in the gym at our new location in a month. Peace Carlo
Thanks for the advise. I’ll let you know in a while how it’s going. Going to start on the rowing machine and recumbent bike. Work up to the weights. Stamina is going to be biggest hurdle. Swing a hammer for 30 minutes and I’m done. Pisses me off.
I was disabled and pret much worthless my first 18 months with tubes out of my kidneys and a foley . Told not to lift more than ten lbs. I lost all muscle stamina even balance . It took us along time to get our chemistries this screwed up. Figures it takes time to halt and then recover from treatments . Our very existence is challenged .. kept doing good stuff , practice daily happiness ..we ve been assaulted .. some guys gain weight , not me . I lost 30 lb , all muscle never to regain . When I started to lift weights or anything I’d hurt myself . Not only are our muscles stripped but so are the bones tendons and ligaments . I m feminized in the sense I’m fragile and accident prone now . Plus I cry when the wind blows sometimes. You’ll get in touch with your feminine side . It’s an adjustment to a more cautious approach to living . I was retired before dx. Been on ssdi four years only income. Selling our home and downsizing in hopes to have alittle funds Incase some expensive treatments is needed in the future . APC changes everything . Good luck Leo .. it’s a bumpy path we’re on .. it beats the alternative though .. some guys have been doing this for twenty years . Not without suffering , some still having fun .. Good luck Leo !
I think the further away from treatments that we get the fatigue should lessen .. my first two years I had zero energy . Now I’m at 40% of my old self . If we didn’t feel like ol men prior to pc we surely might feel like one now . Daily walking routine got me by . No T = less energy ...
I hope my fatigue lessens like you have . I’m seven months on lupron -xtandi and if I walk a few hundred feet or less I break out in profuse sweat, I’m huffing trying to catch my breath and have to sit down for a bit of rest / catch my breath before I try to continue. Just standing on my feet for very long becomes extremely difficult. Seems to get worse month by month. Sounds like all you guys are noticeably better off than I am. Just trying to walk into my clinics at Kaiser after being let off at the front door, people come over and ask me if I need help , the volunteers even come over to offer me a wheelchair ride. Sometimes medical staff follows me around trying to look nonchalant but I catch “ those looks “ if you know what I mean. I still make it there on my own but it’s really difficult. This really sucks yayahahaha. Ugh ....
What drugs are you on besides lupron?
Lupron, , xtandi , Zometa. Zometa being the one that disables me the worse but it goes away in a few days ( maybe ) . Assorted opiates, bp meds , supplements. Both my T and psa are undetectable tho , psa down from 1400 - 1600. I guess its worth it considering the alternative, but it’s hell. I’m determined to go forward with this, besides my wife would kick my butt if I didn’t and croaked before absolutely necessary. My GP just told me he’s glad I’m out trying to engage life and staying busy ( caught me with MJ in my opiate DAP pee test ) . That people like me who just curl up in a corner don’t last very long. Dunno what kind of message that sends me, but I wish the side effects, if that is what it is , would lighten up for a bit better QOL. I’m thinking of stuff like motorized scooters or a Segway or something yayahahaha yayahahaha. Yikes
Hey Kaliber , you’re still a virgin with 7 months on adt . Pray for castration to last like mine has . What a thing to wish for? Are you overweight or have heart problems . Even if so , you need to get some cardio daily . I’m getting on the gym in about a month . I know I’ll feel better .Having No t can drive lethargy and inactivity.. T is a driving force for us men . We don’t realize it until we have none. The culprit in no t.. Zometa doesn’t sound to great . Sorry that you’re suffering that too. Yet to experience it myself . Every drug has side effects ..... dammed if we do dammed if we don’t . 😎
Yayahahaha it’s bad, real bad when we have to look at castration as a good thing ...huh ? Yayahahaha. Zometa is the bone reinforcing treatment, it’s my once a month trip to Real Sick City. The up side is no matter how bad adt is, it seems great when the Zometa sickness wears off . try to avoid that one if at all possible , and if not, the first few times try to remember that it’s temporary. You think you are checking out, this is the big one ... just awful but suddenly after a few days it just sorta disappears. First two times it was a nightmare, then next couple not so much so... then wham again. I asked the infusion clinic if I’d be able to finish off the infusions pretty soon, they said I might get switched to tri monthly after a year on them, but gonna stay on for the duration. I can only hope to hang on like some of you guys, I think my prospects are good considering the dramatic good response I’ve had to start with adt. Several great new meds happening ... lots of positive vibes come from that. Thanks big guy, bet it’s as hot here where it’s green as it is there in lizard city yayahahaha. ( lots of lizards here too ) temps here 100f to 110f daily and rainy season over now.
Heading up the I-80 to the Atlantis Reno as I type this , 4 days at the 3 card poker tables. Have 60,000 plus player points at the Atlantis. Wife and I discovered the magic secret of casino floor play, we never pay for rooms in the whale tower, restaurants or room service ... they don’t even take our points, all comped. It’s why we have so many points saved up. Probably it’s not what you think . Been driving four hours, only about one hour left. Went from endless miles of vineyards to snow capped mountains with pine trees. Drop into high desert pretty soon.
Thanks for the socialization here from you and everybody. No one else understands or appreciates our situation better than brothers in arms. 💪💪💪💪 👍👍👍
Biggest little city . Past through there last with my brother coming out of burning man . So much fun that was.. Good luck😎👍
2000mg of American ginseng or a good strain of ginseng in the morning with some green tea. Low dose of psycho-stimulant such as Vyvanse. Low does Vyvanse is a good pharmaceutical for energy and ginseng is a good natural remedy for fatigue.
2000mg every morning and you should see an increase of energy in about a month - this is backed up by studies.
Exercise is always good to boost heart strength and energy. I would recommend watching youtube videos to learn about strength training. It's always best to use low weight "free weights" (dumbbells) to start out with. The reason being is that it is more natural than machines and it gives your muscles more freedom to compensate and be recruited into the exercise movement.
This is a good youtube channel for free weights and different exercises. youtube.com/watch?v=IUKYRC7...
I submit to the push/pull type of exercise regiment. Meaning that you do a body part in which involves a lot of pushing and then do a body part that involves pulling.
This would be
Monday - 10-15 on treadmill or other cardio machine Chest/biceps
Tuesday - Triceps/shoulders/back
Wednesday - legs and cardio
Thursday - Chest/biceps
Friday - Cardio triceps/shoulders/back
Saturday and Sunday off
Generally you want to shoot for a set range of around 9-12 per body part. A set is a specific exercise that targets a body part. You want to do around 8-12 repetitions of the specific exercise within that set. For example: You pick up 2 20 pound dumbbells and then curl them up to your chest between 8-12 times. This would be a "set of dumbbell bicep curls for 8-12 repetitions". You would then want to do this specific "set" 3-4 times. So you usually do 3 different types of exercises on a body part 3-4 times for 8-12 repetitions.
Lets take biceps for example and look at what a program would look like.
Seated dumbbell bicep curls.
1st set - 12 repetitions at 20 pound dumbbells
2nd set - 10 repetitions at 25 pound dumbbells
3rd set - 8 repetitions at 30 pound dumbbells
Preacher curls
1st set - 12 repetitions at 30 pound bar
2nd set
3rd set
Hammer curls
1st set
2nd set
3rd set
After all this you would be done with this body part and then move on to chest exercises. I normally do chest exercises first though.
It's best to watch videos of someone doing it and then watch people at the gym. Find a nice, handsome boy, like myself to ask questions to at the gym. lol
Hope this helps.
I ask for specifics and you supplied. Going to send my wife out for the tea tomorrow morning. Thanks for the detail. Did you just use the utube guy or use a trainer.
Same question I ask Alan. How long does the session last you before the fatigue comes back?
Mike
I'm a 32 year old male, my dad has advanced prostate cancer. You don't have to do a full session or even do a bunch of body parts in a single day. You could just do 15 minutes of cardio and then 20-30 minutes and focus on a single body part - once a week. So chest monday, biceps tuesday, legs wednesday, triceps thursday, shoulders friday.
You would need to drink the green tea and take some ginseng tablets. I got these ones for my dad. amazon.com/gp/product/B07DW...
He takes 2-3 a day and it greatly improved his energy. You're just going to want to have a blood pressure cuff and make sure the stimulants don't boost your blood pressure to high. If you have access to a health insurance system, I would def look at 10mg of vyvanse or another low doe extended release adderal tablet. Low dose extended release adderal is most likely going to be your best choice there because vyvanse is still patent protected until 2023 and no generic is there.
The most important thing about starting a new exercise routine is to listen to your body. You're going to be uncomfortable, which is good to work through, but don't work through bad pain - can lead to injury.
You don’t mess around!
Ginseng and green tea ,both great .👍
First thing I started was therapeutic keto diet, staying below 20 carbs per day. Keeps the weight off, and so far has kept me from growing breasts.
I do have fatigue, from the zytiga, the cancer itself, and near zero testosterone(orchiectomy).
I am able to run, but it is very hard to keep up with. I am struggling with bone pain in the pelvic metastasis, but that is actually better if I keep up the running.
Other than that, I do floor exercises very similar to yoga, and they actually get my heart pumping. Nice thing is you can exert yourself to get the heart racing, and rest, then keep going.
A radiation oncologist told me that weight bearing exercise is the best thing for bone strengthening.
Isn’t Keto the diet with the protein? What kind of protein do you eat?
Sorry so late on this. I keep protein quite low as well, but maybe 40 to 60 grams per day. I get small amounts from the greens I eat, but mostly from nuts(pecans) and almond flour.
That’s great. I have buddies that use keto for weight loss and they eat huge amounts of protein. They don’t have PC. It works.
Still trying to get a handle on my fatigue. My days usually get off to a slow start. I take a Celebrex and a Bupropion (stimulating antidepressant) with my morning coffee and hopefully an hour or so later my pain is under control and I start to have energy.
Some days I never really get going. Today was a good day. I ran an errand in the morning, then cut up a downed tree for firewood, then went out on a 10 mile run/walk. Tonight mood is good and pain is negligible.
My theory is anything that builds stamina is going to help with fatigue. Many people like me go for a brisk walk or a run. Others lift weights, which can build stamina if you don't let your heart rate drop to normal between sets. Doing it most days of the week should keep the worst fatigue at bay. Just my theory but it seems to be working for me most of the time. Still have a day or two a week where I can't get out of my own way.
As a runner for 50 years, I used to say the first step was the hardest, but now on HT, it’s the first 100 meters that’s the hardest. The O2 is just not there due to low RBC and platelet count, and max performance seems to be about 80-85% of before. Once I get going it’s ok, and to push through, I think back of how it was before I developed as a runner.. One thing I’ve learned over the years is, if you can exercise before eating in the morning, it increases your metabolism and lowers your appetite for the rest of the day. For me, it pays off in keeping a low triglyceride level, staying in Keto, and probably making it harder for PCa to grow. So to recap, the start of your workout will be the hardest until your heart rate elevates and you can mentally adjust to the extra effort needed than before.
Getting going is my biggest hurdle. Have seen some out of range numbers on my blood tests but docs have said they are ok. I’ll look up the RBC. Also I get the O2 issue. I’ve been on ADT for a year and just plugged on through the tired. These posts have shamed me into doing the exercise. I thought if I just kept working I would beat it. Didn’t work.
I’m in timotur’s camp. I ran almost daily and did lots of 10ks and marathons. Was doing more endurance walks up until cancer dx and then ADT at 50. I’m 2.5 tears into ADT now(lupron, zytiga and prednisone w calcium/d supplements) I do have more fatigue and my big spurts are almost non existent. Morning after a great rest and empty stomach is great for me and great energy and ability to walk (or bike for you) for long distances is really good. I do targeted training on core and upper bod w trainer twice per week. (Some Lower but my walks help w a lot of that). Mostly Keto diet. Helps w my energy and all of this is helping me maintain (or slow loss) of muscle and bone strength. I look like a lean healthy string bean (someone else’s reference!) but it helps keep the fat off my abdomen, breasts, and hips and, thus allows for more energy and exercise. Hope this helps..day by day!
Thanks for reminding me why I sometimes feel fatigued during my swims or just normal life. 9 months after chemo and 4 months after radiation my red and white blood cell counts were still below minimums. Doctors not concerned. Next bloodwork in late July may be instructive for me.
Yes, exercise helps with fatigue and is recommended. We need to remember that we are on serious medications for PCa. I checked my lab tests for everything including electrolytes, hemoglobin, everything! I was on Eligard for 6 1/2 years and I had problems with blood tests. My Vit B12 was low at one point and I used a supplement and got a lot more energy. I had low Vit D3 (I mean really low) and was taking a prescription for 100,000 units per week. I was tired and my hemoglobin was below 10.0 and they said I was anemic, but taking iron did not help. I turns out I had kidney disease as well as PCa and that was causing me to be tired. Now I get a shot of Procrit every couple of months. I was snoring with sleep apnea and now I am wearing a CPAP mask and sleep like a baby, This gives me more oxygen and energy. I wear it when I nap. I feel more alert when I cut back on salt and eat natural foods instead of prepackaged foods, including fast foods. Drinking plenty of water helps me feel better and gives me more energy. I joined two groups I like that have regular meetings and that makes me get up, get dressed, and go out and meet people. Staying active helps prevent depression which is often confused with fatigue. I guess what I am trying to say is to not blame everything on ADT when we all have other things that we would have to do to stay healthy. So above everything else just keep truckin'.
I see a doctor for 15 minutes every three months to check my psa. Maybe I need to have someone else look closer at my other test results. My doctor of 22 years has never said anything about the PCA other than his dad has it.
I hope your cancer doctor is checking everything, but only telling you about the PSA. If so have your general practitioner check these things and you need a copy of these tests to see trends in the future. Sometimes the doctor is in a hurry and doesn't want to explain everything, so they just let things go by, but this can cause you you to have problems in the future.
I have good drs for the PC. Unfortunately I wouldn’t have needed them if my family Dr had worried about my rising psa a little more. Never had more than 4.25 but the tumor was out of the prostate. first urologist missed the biopsy and gave me all clear. I really never even heard of a psa. My doc gave me my first digit probe at 65. My dr since I was 45. I learned the hard way. He didn’t know anything and sent me to a worse urologist.
I am so sorry for your problems and I hope your health improves. I had some poor doctors as well, but what was trying to say is that each doctor worries about one part of your health and often lets things go like an electrolyte or hemoglobin level without realizing you are feeling tired all the time, or they just figure it is a side effect of the Lupron. I was seeing 10 doctors and non of them said anything about my B-12 or Vit D3 being low. They never mention depression and mental attitude, yet these things can affect our recovery.
The best exercise is the kind you actually do, and do regularly. That’s gonna be different for everyone regardless of their level of health, so you just have to explore. I go to a CrossFit gym that also has something they call the Stay Active clinic where one can get a focused, prescribed program tailored to one’s own goals and abilities. I work with a coach who evaluates my progress regularly and scales my prescription accordingly. I do a combination of weightlifting, body-weight movements, aerobic exercise and quasi-static strength and balance work. My goals are overall fitness and strength. Sometimes all that tires me out, but one recovers. The important thing is to keep at it, and give your self at least a month of trying something before you decide whether or not it works for you.
Ok I hear you all. Never been an exercise person. Always said I was to busy and my work was physical so it should do the trick. I’ll start. Bad part is my wife has been telling me the same for a long time. I just knew someone would come up with something better.
Thanks
She’s the best incentive then . Mine is the same .
I swim laps for 30 minutes, 4 times per week. This doesn't help the mid-section fat buildup (I blame the ADT for that) but it does give me stamina. Still, on occasion I take a power nap in the afternoons (I am self-employed and can do this once in a while).
Best wishes!
That’s my goal to get back to working or at least feel like it
I’m the king of power naps ..
I'm tired of my fatigue...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/16/2019 10:10 PM DST
So you are sick and tired of being sick and tired? Me too.
It makes me tired just thinking about how tired I am..
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Monday 06/17/2019 2:44 PM DST
😂
Do cardio, everyone is different. Do whatever version you will stick with. I also feel lifting is critical. You need muscle mass for a number of reasons in addition to QOL. Especially later. Stay active. I have had very little ADT induced fatigue, though I can't do interval aerobics any more. I also have very little issues with hot flashes, no night sweats, and little problem with mood swings once I started taking my Lupron shots monthly. Libido is also good, took a year before i needed any pharmaceutical assistance, and low doses still do the trick. Good luck!
I'm on an ADT holiday but, at age 69, I am still dealing with fatigue. I wonder if it is from the meds I take to ward off atrial fibrillation. Maybe I should get an a-fib ablation and be done with those pills? I do exercise 3 times a week -- 10 minutes stair climber and then all the weight machines, each session.
Well that is the worst news. No adt you do the exercises and still tired. Never thought about the fact I was just old. Thanks a lot. Everyone is different that’s for sure.
Look on your blood tests for any data that is too high or too low. Then look at the previous data on that test to see if there is a trend in the test. My Potassium was high, but still in range so the test was not flagged as "high". So if you find a something, ask your general practitioner and your oncologist. They will steer you in the right direction as to what to do. And good luck taking charge of your own recovery!
Thanks. Digging them out now
Ellipticals are no impact and great for everything .
Thinking about buying one for the house. Any recommendations on which brand. Don’t see me staying at the gym for extended amount of time. Just long enough to figure out what I need.
Lupron fatigue and nausea
It is all about attitude not cancer
DOCETAXEL FATIGUE
Importance of how you die
Lupron Fatigue
