Bedtime HELP!

[Chailatte4meplesse]

When does your 9/10 year old go to sleep? My son is 9, nearly 10 and his sleep is just getting worse.

Diagnosed and medicated ADHD and has ASD.

Currently unable to fall asleep before midnight and it's exhausting.

I have to be in the room with him to get him to settle down and at least try to relax. I rub his back, hair and hold his hand. Which after a full on day, I'm knackered.

He takes melatonin, but even that is no longer helping.

Have tried it in tablet/gummy and in mixed drink form to see if that helps. But nope.

We have a good routine of Pj's, story, teeth brush, into bed. But then he is up singing, tapping, making noises, jumping around the room, making things with his Lego requiring lots of concentration. Asking questions endlessly, needing the answers straight away, rather than waiting until the morning.

Have tried sleep mist on pillow/bedding, we keep lights low and play relaxing music in background.

I just want him to go to sleep at a reasonable time or independently. I'm loosing hours every evening just trying to get him to sleep. I have 2 other children who need a bedtime routine with me, which isn't happening right now.

Any advise, suggestions or recommendations are very appreciated.

[Mom-of-a-superhero]

I can relate. My 10 year old daughter diagnosed with ADHD and needs me to sleep with her every night or else she can't fall asleep . I know you said you already do Melatonin. What about magnesium? The other thing we have tried is weighted blanket. Good luck!

[Chailatte4meplesse in reply to Mom-of-a-superhero]

Thank you, will try the magnesium. He didn't like the weighted blanket sadly.

[5dollarSparkle in reply to Mom-of-a-superhero]

My son is the same way that he can't fall asleep without me or my husband with him in bed. I do more of the cuddling to get our son to sleep faster. What I do is lay on my right side with him curled up against me, but I'm on TOP of his covers and with one leg and one arm I lay across his body to "secure him like a cocoon" the same in a way a weighted blanket does. I've also placed pillows on top of him that is also on top of the covers for a "hug" feeling. I'll just lay there quietly with him till he falls asleep. He also has a night light on till he falls asleep and all his cuddle toys that he only sleeps with. I can usually get our son to sleep faster than my husband can, because I cuddle with him. It really works to have something on him that makes him feel safe. Plus the location of his bed he can look out of his door and still see me on the couch. So I'll either watch tv from the couch or work from the couch till he falls asleep. He also prefers some kind of background noise to fall asleep and that's because the first 4 months of his life he was in the NICU. The NICU had music going on 24/7 and with the nurses, doctors, and other parents talking he was very used to noise that once he was home, noises was needed for him to sleep. So it's great that I don't have to tip toe around to keep him sleeping.

We haven't had to try medication as of yet to get him to sleep or for his ADHD. He's on medicine for anxiety for over a month now so we're still in the trial phase on that. We won't know till closer to school to see how this medicine will work and if an ADHD medicine will be needed. If so, we're hoping a low dosage since the anxiety medicine has helped him quite a bit. I did read that melatonin should NOT be given without talking to a doctor first. That many kids do NOT need it as your body already produces it. And that studies are still in the work to see how melatonin affects a child's developing brain. DO YOUR RESEARCH on everything from various doctors, books, and research online. One doctor will have different opinions compared to another doctor from the same clinic. Don't be afraid to take your research and questions with you to discuss with your doctor or a specialist. I've learned myself by doing my own research that some of what our doctor informs us on I actually already knew because of my own research. Plus by doing my own research I can give knowledge or educate my husband since on some things his opinions varies because he's not researching on his own like I am. Thru testing our son we think that my husband too has some form of ADHD. But his ways of coping with it does NOT work the same for our son, and that's one thing my husband has a hard time to understand. Sorry I was going off your actual topic. But hang in there. It's a daily challenge at times, but remember as I remind my son (and myself) that having ADHD is my son's super power. He's NOT different than any other child. He just needs to learn the same knowledge a different way. Two people can take two different paths to get to ONE location. It doesn't mean that either one is the right path, because they both got there, no matter how long or how little it takes to get there. Last, look at the GOOD in ADHD, and try not to focus on the bad. Okay, one last thing, I've been seeing many ADHD parents (including myself) apologize so much for our kid(s) and we need to stop that! We don't need to apologize, just educate others so they will understand and have compassion to share with others especially with other kids.

Okay, I'm done. lol.

[Chailatte4me in reply to 5dollarSparkle]

Thanks for your reply. I actually just changed his bed recently so I could no longer lay with him, like you describe. I have sat/cuddled him to sleep for years like that. It was the only way he would settle. He would always wake up in the night still and want me with him again to start the process again which became exhausting for both of us. For a while, to get some sleep I made a floor bed next to mine, so when it was bedtime he would still start in his bed, but if he needed to when he woke up, he would lay on that. We needed sleep and at the time that was the most important thing.

I was hoping the change of bed, would help him sleep more independently as I physically can't lay on it as it's a loft bed. But he is still needing physical contact

So may go back to a normal bed.

[5dollarSparkle in reply to Chailatte4me]

Of course you don't want to have to carry him from your bed to his bed because that can get old as well as too heavy to be carrying. Have you tried starting out in your bed and when he's close to asleep walk him back to his bed? Or try setting a timer that every night you two can curl up together on your bed, the floor, the couch, something and after 30 mins or so you then tuck him in his bed and you go to your bed? Have you talked with a doctor about this? Some things they'll grow out of so I've been told. Has he done sleep overs at family or friend's house? If so, does he need someone with him in order for him to fall asleep? What about a body pillow that he can curl up with? Maybe even putting your shirt on the pillow so he also has your scent, the scent of his mama and a pillow to curl up with with might send him to dream land.

I came across this on View Your Deal that you might want to try. It looks so inviting that anyone (human and/or dogs) would love to fall asleep on. Plus the edges to cuddle up with, again kind of like a body pillow might also make your son feel "safe and secure" like a hug or the physical touch that is needed. It's from the company Plufl and on sale now for $199.00 in a few colors. I can't post the link because it's not allowed in here to do so if I remember right. Show it to your son and ask him about it too. Seeing it he might be more eager to try it and if he shows no interest or scared of it or something than why paid the money. But again I'd be asking his family doctor or a specialist about more help. Because trying to get him off to sleep on his own, which I know is hard as it's the same struggle we're having and making sure to do it before there in high school is really important to get on top of now. I know I sure don't want my son going off to college and he needs his mama or dad to sleep with him in order for him to fall asleep. Don't get me wrong I love my cuddles with my son, but there is going to come to a time when it isn't going to be an option or appropriate to do.

[Chailatte4me in reply to 5dollarSparkle]

Hello, I have done lots of the things you mention over the past few years, some worked for a while. As he gets older it's hard to find the right balance.

He has never slept at anyone's home overnight. He wouldn't cope with the change. Especially if I wasn't there.

He used to let his dad put him to bed, or his eldest sister if I was out. But hasn't done for about a year now. Will only settle with me.

If I can't be there in person, he needs me to be on the other end of the phone to be able to speak to me as he falls asleep. He will eventually fall asleep with me on the phone still on his pillow, bless him.

[Mamamichl]

I fee for you momma. My kid has had trouble since she was 3 and she’s now 9. We found ourselves giving melatonin daily, so she probably doesn’t make it naturally herself anymore. I also have adhd and I have been able to take a prescription sleep aid. Talk to his doc to see if this could be an option for your you.

[SurvivorFan]

Guanfacine in the later afternoon works very well for my son. Without it, he will not fall asleep until late like that. Definitely ask his provider about some other options besides melatonin. Once you have something on board, you may have to "wean" him off the extensive bedtime routine you have for him.Long ago, we had a provider give us a really helpful tactic. We gave my son 3 golden tickets to keep by his bed. If he called us in for any reason after we said our goodnights, we took a ticket. If the tickets ran out, that was it, we would not come back in. Yes, it was rough the first few days, but it made him think about if his need or want was worth it to use one of these precious golden tickets! Within a couple of weeks he didn't need the tickets anymore To be clear, this was with the HELP of the guanfacine. Without this, I don't think it would have worked.

[Chailatte4meplesse in reply to SurvivorFan]

Thank you for your reply. I have been giving him his Guanfacine just before bed, so will try to give it earlier and see if that helps.

[SurvivorFan in reply to Chailatte4meplesse]

Every kid is different, but we have forgotten to give it at his usual 4:30ish time so gave it later in the evening and he is really wired and dysregulated.

[Imakecutebabies in reply to Chailatte4meplesse]

It's the meds!

When we were giving my son guanfacine right before bed, he would take hours to fall asleep (like 10/11pm). When we happened to mention this to his psychiatrist, she told us that guanfacine can take 6-8 hours to make you sleepy! So we started giving it to him right after school (2:30) and he started sleeping great (8:30).

We eventually moved it to an hour after school (3:30) because he was having meltdowns getting ready for bed so I figured maybe he was getting tired too soon, and now it's better getting ready and he still falls asleep between 8:30-9. Gotta find that sweet spot.

[Chailatte4me in reply to Imakecutebabies]

SurvivorFan and Imakecutebabies It worked!

I gave him them at 4.00pm yesterday and he actually said he was tired at 8.30 and proceeded to fall asleep within 10 minutes!

I didn't know what to do with myself!

Finger crossed it works again tonight.

[redseahorse11]

If you haven't tried this yet, heavy work exercises (you can Google examples) before bed might help. Some kids need the sensory input and physical exhaustion that those exercises give them. For other kids, it might energize them, so you'd have to experiment with the types, amount, and timing. If he sees an OT, they could definitely help with this. Good luck!

[Chailatte4me in reply to redseahorse11]

Weirdly in energises him. He says when he hasn't had to do much during the day he can fall asleep better rather than being busy and physical all day.

[RelaxingDays]

My 10 year old with combined adhd, anxiety, dysregulation also has had trouble on and off for years sleeping on her own. The past several months I basically sleep with her most of the night. Mirtazapine worked for a while but not the past several months. If she falls asleep and I sneak out she wakes up after an hour or two...she gets scared so I have to go back and then most times I fall asleep. Dr added 1mg Melatonin but only helping to fall asleep a bit faster. But she still wakes up and her dreams wake her up as well sometimes walking around her room but sleeping. I've also tried weighted blanket and magnesium in past and she's also taking guanfacine in afternoon...but nothing is helping. Sorry you're also dealing with sleep issues. Any suggestions from anyone would be helpful.

[Chailatte4me in reply to RelaxingDays]

Bless you, it all sounds so familiar. He has crazy anxiety, more than I had realised, tbh. Sleeping in the same room just helps him feel safe. Trying to get the balance of needing you to be there and promoting self soothing sleep patterns is tough.

Fingers crossed your able to find something that helps.

[arrh121]

Our son has had these challenges albeit not as severe. Melatonin has helped him (which I see you've tried), he also sleeps better on days when he has had physical activity earlier in the day, particularly swimming which also calms him. If he can't sleep, we tell him to read quietly with his book light until he's tired.

[WYMom]

My kids have no toys in their room. Just beds and pets. So I hear them in there but as long as they don't come out I let them be. I know they aren't playing with things though. I find singing fine. Also talking to themselves. Whatever it takes.

[Aspen797]

When our son was little we did a gradual transition to sleeping alone. I know your son is older but I wonder if something similar might help? We very gradually decreased intensity of contact (falling asleep together to pats in crib, to resting hand, to sitting next to, to sitting next to door, etc) and increased substitute soothers he could wake up to and turn to independently. Maybe since he’s older he could be part of the discussion about substitute soothers and perhaps have some incentives/treats to celebrate little milestones in independence?Some ideas to aid the gradual distancing/substituting—a video monitor w/two way talk/view ability, a full body pillow he can snuggle with, a body sock if weighted blankets don’t work.