oppositional defiance disorder

[Library-girl]

hi just wondering if anyone has any experience of ODD in a young person with learning disabilities thanks in advance 😊

[lecsmum]

Time to research Pathological demand avoidance, start with You tube.

[Library-girl in reply to lecsmum]

Thanks ☺️

[Chocolate-heals-all]

My son has a demand-avoidant profile, although no psychiatrist has ever made the explicit diagnosis. School mis-represented it as failure avoidance and said he needed to be educated using “error-free learning” which is a wonderful technique if used correctly but doesn’t teach resilience to failure. The audiologist used error-free learning when he wasn’t yet speaking but needed to demonstrate he heard a beep, and he always loved going there because they taught him really good games. That’s what I would describe as an appropriate use of error-fee learning.

We were tipped off by one of his support workers when he was nine years old (he’s 21 now and still the same) - she said that you couldn’t give him a direct order but you could turn round what you were saying to make it a statement. Instead of “Go clean the pen for the geese” you say “the geese need you to clean their pen” This strategy is called “using declarative speech” and is extremely helpful.

If someone has full-blown serious demand avoidance even declarative speech can trigger a refusal. For example you might say “dinner is on the table” and they will choose that moment to initiate some transaction that requires their full attention for forty-five minutes. But in our case we simply put the situation to our son and walk away, we don’t engage, we say “it’s your choice” and we support him in this, in educational and clinical settings, telling all practitioners that he values his autonomy and cannot be “told what to do” but needs to hear what they would like him to do and then to be given time to decide how to respond. He has a diagnosis of autism and Down syndrome. He is somewhat impaired by the demand avoidance but is leading a useful life because he has sympathetic people around him.

[Library-girl in reply to Chocolate-heals-all]

Chocolate-heals-all I knew I was right to reach out your son and mine are like peas in a pod ! It makes me fell better knowing I am not alone ☺️ to be honest we only got the autism diagnosis a couple of years ago despite him being 24 now so to be honest thought he surely cannot have another condition which has been missed - like you we have tried to develop strategies ourselves but when external people are involved this is when we tend to get more problems and I worry for the future - any more tips greatly received thanks so much for reaching out 😊

[Rabbits1]

I have a nineteen year old with Downs, autism and pda. I try to member to ask her if she would like to do something rather than just tell her but sometimes there really is no choice and then it's difficult!

[lecsmum]

Research pathological Demand Avoidance, well known in the UK now and growing in USA.