Does anyone know Psychiatrist and Endocrinologist in one person?

[For_my_girl]

I'm desperately hunting for a specialist in the UK that is both a Psychiatrist and has is knowledgeable about Graves disease. I'd be so grateful for any recommendations!

[Pandora777]

I don't know of a doctor who is both a Psychiatrist and a Endocrinologist who is knowledgeable about Graves' disease. Perhaps you can tell us why you are looking for one who is both?

I would recommend Elaine Moore's site because it is full of useful information about the disease.

Here is a link to the site.

elaine-moore.com/

[For_my_girl in reply to Pandora777]

Thank you so much for the link Pandora777 . The reason I asked is that I believe (from my research and experience) that Thyroid illness is closely linked with mental health. The person I ask on behalf of had bi-polar symptoms for 2 years before diagnosis and they went away after her Graves was managed. They come back instantly when meds are forgotten.

She now has a more serious mental health complication and I need a doctor who can prescribe and balance both Thyroid and Mental Health drugs.

I'm so shocked to see so few people discuss, research and find solutions for this obvious connection.

Will look at Elaine - thank you so much for taking the time to reply x

[Pandora777 in reply to For_my_girl]

I went for over 2 years before I was diagnosed and my GP actually wrote "delusional" on my records during that time. You can read my story on my profile page if you are interested.

Sometimes Graves' disease can be mistaken for a mental illness but this is very rare and I don't suffer with my mental health. Both my GP and Endocrinologist both tried to offer me counseling and antidepressants for my illness when all wanted was the correct medication to treat my thyroid disease. Just to add I am on my second remission now and feel very well at the moment so there is light at the end of the tunnel.😀

[pennyannie in reply to For_my_girl]

Can I ask how was the Graves was " managed " ?

I'm so much better now that I am restoring both T3 and T4 thyroid hormones :

I believe psychiatrists can prescribe T3 as that was my Plan C when refused help through the NHS endocrinologists.

[For_my_girl in reply to pennyannie]

She takes 10mg Propylthiouracil

Propranolol as needed10 min NHS appointment every 6 months from a general endocrine consultant (non-specialist in Graves).

The Graves and eye-bulging seem under control but there have been complications with mental health and I don't believe they can be treated separately.

[pennyannie in reply to For_my_girl]

OK then - so your friend is still with her thyroid and takes anti thyroid drugs - PTU for short - yes it's a mouthful and shall not try and pronounce it - and a beta blocker , Propranolol for " anxiety, blood pressure, tachycardia " ;

That's pretty standard for a Graves patient whilst on the AT drugs :

These block the persons thyroid hormone production so to allow the very high levels of T3 and T4 that were originally found at diagnosis to come down gently into range by themselves - however this needs careful monitoring as the AT drug should be adjusted as and when, to stop the patient slowing down too much and then experiencing symptoms of hypothyroidism.

It's a bit like a seesaw and finding a place within the ranges of T3 and T4 that the patient feels suits them best.

The body runs on T3 and at one end of the stick you have hyperthyroidism and all that can throw at you and at the other end of the same stick you have hypothyroidism and a whole other set of horrible symptoms.

Hyperthyroidism is considered life threatening whereas, conversely, hypothyroidism seems to be seen as " just " life limiting - if not optimally medicated.

The thyroid is a major gland responsible for full body synchronisation, including one's mental, emotional, psychological, physical and spiritual wellbeing, one's inner central heating system and one's metabolism.

I've always had a few problems, left handed and dyslexic as a child and when my thyroid finally " gave up " my cognitive functions seriously deteriorated.

I read the brain needs a serious amount of T3 in order to function and now I have my brain back by supplementing a thyroid hormone replacement that contains both T3 and T4 :

But your friend is not me, nor where I am, so in the first instance if you have any blood test to share with the forum members we maybe able to advise on where your friend is in this roller coaster of a disease.

First and foremost we need the original first blood test showing over range T3 and T4 blood test results AND the medical evidence of WHICH AI disease antibodies were found over range and the medical evidence on which the treatment plan and drugs are based.

For Graves Disease the unique antibodies are expressed as either/or a TSI ( a stimulating ) or a TR ab ( a blocking ) and there should be some numbers and capital letter abbreviations, somewhere from when first diagnosed confirming this disease which is poorly understood and badly treated.

[For_my_girl in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you so much - I will try to get this but it is now complicated as there was a bout of recreational drug use causing severe Psychosis. There was probably a Thyroid Storm in there too (from temporary stopping of meds)

So now it is not just the Graves or the Mental Health but a long road to balance the two. Currently it is quite serious, just discharged from 21 days in hospital.

[pennyannie in reply to For_my_girl]

Yes, probably a longish road ahead with no doubt a few bumps along the way - let alone the additional issues, and I believe inter- related , and, in all honesty, I'm out of my depth.

We generally suggest organising a full thyroid blood panel to include TSH, T3 and T4 plus antibodies plus ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D and any results you may have will be explained to you, if you detail the results and ranges.

Metabolism needs to be optimal for good health :

With Graves metabolism runs too fast and it's common for low nutrient levels to be found which again, compounds the persons health issues.

Similarly if metabolism is too slow and hypothyroidism creeps in, low nutrients can be found as the food is now not being broken down enough to be digested properly.

Apart from the Elaine Moore website you will pick up a lot of information from the Thyroid UK website, including symptoms of both hyper and hypothyroidism as no doubt you are good at " spotting " where things might be, and unfortunately some symptoms can be both over and under medication just to complicate the matter.

[pennyannie]

Hello For-My -Girl and welcome to the forum :

There is little on your profile page and totally understand the question but I have found it impossible just finding an endocrinologist who understand Graves let alone having another " string to their bow " !

I'm with Graves post RAI thyroid ablation 2005 and now manage lingering Graves, thyroid eye disease and hypothyroidism and self medicating as i was refused both NDT and T3 by the NHS so forced to take matters into my own hands if I wanted to feel better.

The Elaine Moore Graves Disease Foundation website is an excellent adjunct to this amazing forum which is supported by the charity Thyroid UK and where you can read up on all things thyroid and of all the services and back up they can offer to any individual dealing with thyroid health issues.

[For_my_girl in reply to pennyannie]

I'm so sorry to hear this pennyannie . I agree it is almost impossible to find support for Graves through the NHS and they don't care a jot about the consequences of RAI ablation.

I wish you all the strength in your journey and thank you for replying x

[Pandora777 in reply to pennyannie]

So true about finding a Endocrinologist that understands Graves' pennyannie !

[Pandora777]

Do you have any blood results to share with us? Sometimes your levels can drop too low when taking PTU which happened in my case because I wasn't being monitored by my Endocrinologist. This can make you feel depressed and ill. My Endocrinolgist then tried to get me to see a counselor when infact it was my very low T4 and T3 that were making me feel this way.

You should tell the person you are talking about to join this site or Elaine Moore's so she can get some help and support from other sufferers.

[For_my_girl]

Thank you so much - I will try to get this but it is now complicated as there was a bout of recreational drug use causing severe Psychosis. There was probably a Thyroid Storm in there too (from temporary stopping of meds) So now it is not just the Graves or the Mental Health but a long road to balance the two. Currently it is quite serious, just discharged from 21 days in hospital.

I have looked at the Elaine Moore site and have posted a request. So grateful!

[Pandora777 in reply to For_my_girl]

What recreational drug use was this?

[For_my_girl in reply to Pandora777]

All of them.

[For_my_girl in reply to Pandora777]

Mostly Magic Mushrooms and Pot

[Pandora777 in reply to For_my_girl]

Well that won't have helped her condition at all.

[pennyannie]

Hey there again :

I've just seen your post on the Thyroid UK forum and suggest, in future, for you to post any further questions, " over there " as you will be picked up more quickly and by more forum members than on this site.

I've asked we merge this post into the main Thyroid forum but it seems we can't and I do not intend to write this all out again -

So. I'll see you " on the other side " in future !!!!

[pennyannie]

Good morning to you :

I owe you an apology :

I saw a post on the Thyroid uk forum yesterday entitled Graves Disease - Mental Disorders -

written by RedApple and I thought, this was your post ?????

Hence my last post yesterday suggesting " I'd see you on the other side " ???

I now see I jumped to a conclusion - something I'm often accused of - however the content of my last post applies as the knowledge base of people on the Thyroid uk forum is wide and you'll learn more there than here :

I think I saw your name highlighted in the post, so you may have already read it, as it is so relevant to your situation.

[Eyes-wide-shut]

Hi. I can't help with your request for duel trained psychiatrist and endocrinologist but I think if you were to see an experienced endocrinologist, with experience of Graves', that could be helpful. I have Graves' and Thyroid eye disease and am a clinical psychologist. My own journey with these has involved periods of 'mental health' - which I've always felt were secondary to underlying thyroid and antibodies in particular. I too have read a lot, particularly about the cross-over in presentation of bipolar and thyroid and in fact went back to my adult mental health text which I'd used at start of my clinical training in 1995. On the chapter about anxiety/depression and bipolar it clearly says that the 1st thing to rule out is an underlying thyroid problem because of the similarities in presentation. I see an excellent endocrinologist now and can private message you her name .

[For_my_girl in reply to Eyes-wide-shut]

I'm so sorry for my late reply - I completely missed your post. Yes please, could you message me your endo. Gratefully.

[Eyes-wide-shut in reply to For_my_girl]

Dr Vassiliki Bravis. But you may also think about contacting an immunologist as ‘inflammation’ in the body can cause psychological effects.

[For_my_girl in reply to Eyes-wide-shut]

Thank you very much for this - she looks like a perfect fit!