I've shared the following with a few HU members in direct messaging, but have finally gotten time to finish this post started quite some time back. It is about this newly discovered hormone that I initially ran across in doing my monthly info check at Dr. Greger's NutritionFacts.org website.
This recently discovered hormone (FGF21) is a controlling agent for the promotion of "metabolic and artery health, leanness, and longevity". Drug companies have obviously jumped on this as an avenue for a pharma agent to boost FGF21 and, of course, make lots of money in the process - so far apparently without success. It does seem that exercise* and long-term fasting (+10 days = protein-restriction = see second video) can naturally boost FGF21. (Sorry, Big Pharma, maybe we don't need your help after all.)
Here are links to the two NutritionFacts.org videos and a bit of impressive research specific to FGF21 and PCa (that PI3K–Akt–mTOR signaling again & a diet of 85% carbs!):
This is pretty powerful new information with indications that FGF21 has positive ripple effects throughout a full range of metabolic functions. So, while it seems that everyone is worried about getting enough protein, it is fiber we should be focused on - and, GASP, maybe it's time to stop maligning carbs (at least the unprocessed, whole ones) as the most evil components of a "healthy diet". ** Having now been 10+ years on a near 100% WFPB diet, I rarely even make the RDA ~50 grams of protein that my 140 pound average weight suggests I should target. (0.8 grams per kg body weight) However, I do meet or exceed the min fiber RDA of 35 grams every day. With meat and dairy essentially providing zero fiber, and with fiber being the essential fuel for a health gut flora (via SCFAs) that underpins 70% of our immune function, it is clear that moving in the direction of a more plant-based diet will decrease excess protein intake and boost fiber. That's one of those 2-fers we all are constantly looking for when it comes to our health.
And for those familiar with Valter Longo's Fasting-Mimicking Diet (FMD), it has now occurred to me that this might even be the foundation for the effectiveness of the FMD, since as as a side effect it restricts protein (and methionine) to levels below those Greger mentions in the video. As mentioned above, I am already at the low end of protein (and the high end of fiber), so am probably already maxed out on any benefits. I've never tried the FMD, but do practice regular intermittent daily fasts, and did a 3 1/2 day water-only fast about a year ago. I'm considering repeating that multi-day fast during the next month or so.
This is all good information that all PCa patients should review and consider as we work to find the best ways to outwit our cancers. While we do it, let's all stay Very Safe & Well,
Ciao, Captain K9
* Weight-training is more effective than aerobic exercises in boosting FGF21
** Dietary profiles of all "Blue Zone" diets are carb-heavy. Just sayin'!
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Thanks for posting....I do IF, but considering doing a 3 day water fast after I finish work at the end of the week. Also, the protein information made me realize that I am taking in too much protein and should cut back. Still eating my healthy sprouts on a sandwich.
I have but only 48 hours...got ready for colonoscopy....I am a whimpy burger....LOL... Gotta push myself to the 72 hr mark or beyond... You can only find out what you are capable of by pushing yourself... trouble for me is the prednisone I take with abiraterone... hard on the gut....should be taken with food....
I hadn't thought about fasting while on the meds. Any issues there; re: to fasting effectiveness? My experience confirmed that after two days, the hunger signalling goes away and you actually feel great - since you have all that extra energy that is usually needed to digest your food. The other things that made it relatively easy for me to do the multi-day fast is that I often don't eat but one real meal a day as it is and I also live alone, so no food odors to tease the appetite of a starving man.
Meanwhile, I've just fallen into the methionine rabbit hole (again) as it sort of ties into the FGF21 "thingy". Maybe a post on it soon?
Let me know if you decide to give it a try and I'll coordinate mine, so we can have a 2-person fasting support group. Get the job sorted and go catch some fish. Catch you later (no bait req'd) Ciao K9 terror
BTW it seems we added some high profile HUers to our ranks today?
I'll keep it in mind.... I may have to do one small snack a day with prednisone....sprout sandwich only perhaps... prednisone goes with food, but maybe I could limit to 200 calories a day......
As for the high profile HUers added to our ranks?.. Who knows?? The more the merrier says I... I hope they are coming and soon..... I will welcome them all...
In lieu of a water-only fast, you might be better off to consider Longo's Fasting Mimicking Diet (FMD). You can buy a package of snack bars made for the FMD or you can do the same using recipes in his book. Mateobeach said he had ordered a package meal plan and was going to give it a try. So, he should be a good one to ask, if you want to consider it. Part of the rationale behind the FMD is that it is a plan that average people can and will do repeated times, whereas, few people will to do a multi-day water-fast several times a year.
If you have an eReader or software on you tablet/laptop that reads ePub files, his book can be downloaded here:
Hope all is well in your summer abode and the garden is flourishing. Sept travel schedule is set and I am headed out to the Casa Lulu after the reuinion weekend at the lake. Mateobeach is coming for a few days for a Tres Amigo Showdown in the Wild, Wild West. Put on your cloud cape 🛩🚀🛸and join us to make it cuarteto. We could even take a daytrip out to see sprouting guru Doug Evans in the Mohave Desert. 🦎 🌵🌞🌡
Will send along my Sept dates later today. Enjoy the summer. Paz ☮ Capt'n 🐶
Many thx, great post! I regularly watch nutrition.org and follow Dr. Greger, Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. Barnard,… I switched to WFPBD after diagnosed in 2017 and didn’t regret by now. It’s just hard to follow low fat and low protein intake when a) doing a lot of exercise and b) also follow the recommendations regarding nuts and seeds. How do you handle this? Which food do you eat to boost carbohydrates only? How do you get your daily calcium?
Captain K9. I have enjoyed your posts since joining HU in late 2020 (Dx in Oct 2020). I now follow you. Your research is awesome, and you are obviously very intelligent, and well spoken. I always want to check your Bio to see what you are doing to stay alive (you mention 10yrs w PCa). But your Bio is empty?
Would you let us know where this journey started, what was your Dx (how serious), and how you have made it 10 years. Many of us research, but what we do on a regular basis to stay alive is what I am really interested in. Yes, what works for you, may not work for me.
Mike - Thank you for you kind comments. I've waited to respond to you in order to get results from LEF walk-in labs from last week. (discussed later) I take the position that those who have had more time in the "cancer game" have an obligation to share their experiences - as in, "We are always stronger together than we will ever be alone." I have never done a bio for personal reasons, altho' my status was profiled in my first post and has been updated in various subsequent posts and replies since joining HU back is 2018. I had lurked at APC for a year or so, after being search-linked to posts by super-researcher and most-prolific poster, Patrick O'Shea (pjoshea13). Eventually I registered, mostly to get access to his invaluable post archive and to share my experience with the AUS urinary implant. I was restricted (IMHO, unjustifiably so - sound familiar) several years ago at APC and decided not to bow to their whims and along with Dangerous Dave moved here to post. I am connected to a network of individual HU members and share a lot of info and patient experience via private message and email. Five of us also got together for a weekend back in 2019.
As for my 10+ year survival with PCa and 16 years with blood cancer, CLL, I can only say that a large part of that may just be due to dumb luck. I am definitely an outlier for both cancers, having avoided any treatment for CLL over these last 16 years and being a definite n=1 with my non-SOC ADT treatments for PCa. I also gravitated to a WFPB diet sometime after my CLL diagnosis in 2006. For me, that was a 180 degree dietary rotation, so it took a number of years for me to get to 80% +. Now I'm 95% year in and out. Has that contributed to my better than expected outcomes (so far) with both cancers? No way of knowing, but changing my diet and getting much more active has definitely improved my overall health and QOL. I'm just off my second round of short-term mono ADT (Lupron both times - 3 mos #1, 2 mos #2). First vacation resulted in 4 1/2 years off treatment with normal T range throughout. Excellent PSA/T response with monthly injections this second time, so I still seem to be a good-responder to ADT. The LEF/Labcorp labs of last week have confirmed the short-term durability and super T rebound from the repeat of the 2017 mono-ADT treatment. So, at 5 weeks post-ADT, I will continue to monitor my PSA & T (+ other hormones) going forward and hope for a second multi-year treatment vacation with its fine T-induced QOL.
As a definite outlier, I'm not sure the specifics of my disease/treatment history are that useful or helpful to others - other than as evidence that outliers do exist. However, in Siddhartha Mukherjee's short book, The Laws of Medicine: Field Notes From an Uncertain Science, he does address the "potential" value of outliers. His second law, “Normals” teach us rules; “outliers” teach us laws, is a validation of the importance of "outliers" in advancing our understanding of disease. This sentence from that book says it all:
"Every outlier represents an opportunity to refine our understanding of illness."
I'm in the process of doing that for myself, as, like you, I advocate on my behalf. As an n=1 outlier, what the medical community does with that to refine their understanding of PCa is entirely up to them.
Your journey is a model for patients who need to act on many issues and do it quickly. That you have and continue to seek out expert professionals at every step indicates you have taken on the role of being you own patient advocate and done is seriously. Many never realize the importance of doing that until too late. In fact, had I been a better advocate when my cancer was confirmed via my first needle biopsy - and sought out better advice at a cancer center, I might have been treated earlier and would likely be cancer-free now. NPfisherman recently responded to a post by advising the person to "Be the Driver and not a passenger" in making treatment decisions. Obviously, you have done that from the start, as you sought to find the very best options for treating your disease,
Thanks again for the comments and Best Of Luck to you going forward.
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