Hello all. I have Bismuth toxicity (off the charts) and I think it may be contributing to my PD symptoms. I do NOT take Pepto Bismol or any other stomach medicines ever. I do not have and never have had issues with digestion/bowels/etc. I take no medicines and my supplements are when I remember to take them. I wear makeup very rarely and use natural if I do. I use natural bath products/toothpaste. I get my hair highlighted maybe once per year. I do not get manicures/pedicures. I go to the dentist every six months. I do not have amalgam fillings. I do live 2 blocks from a highway, but my windows are mostly closed. My food is varied, my water is filtered, I'm wondering if the super smart peeps on here have any ideas. Please let me know! Thanks much!
Bismuth toxicity: Hello all. I have... - Cure Parkinson's
Bismuth toxicity
"However it is generally made as a byproduct of copper, lead,tin, silver, gold, and zinc plants. "
Did you live close to where they refine copper, lead,tin, silver, gold, or zinc?
Wish I could give you some advice, but unfortunately have never heard of this condition - it seems that you know more about bismuth sources than most people. How did you find out that you have bismuth toxicity ? Is there a test for it?
My hair was tested for minerals, etc as part of Dr. Mishley's work-up and that's when we saw the bismuth toxicity. She said she has only had one other patient with this high of levels....and that person was poisoned by her lipstick. I don't really ever wear lipstick so that's not the answer for me. I'm stumped.
uwaterloo.ca/chem13-news-ma...
Looks like there are a couple of other bismuth containing medications in Canada, but I did not find evidence they are sold in the US. There is no bismuth mining or smelting in US so contamination from such sources is extremely unlikely here.
Do you eat game shot with bullets?
Maybe a pot or fry pan has some that leaches out if you cook with vinegar or wine or tomatoes?
I would have my filtered water checked again. Perhaps there is some leaching from the pipeline beyond the filter and very close to the mouth of the faucet. Just a thought.
Good luck.
Kind of mysterious.
Unless you live unknowingly near a former mining facility or manufacturing facility, seems you might have to look into your "supplements" to see if that is the source.
Assuming also you are using a legitimate diagnostic test and no one has a motive to make you think you need to then buy a lot of their stuff that they have to sell you. So you need to have an independent diagnostic source, one that can't benefit from saying next "see, so this symptom and that symptom are from this diagnosis, and I need you to spend your money on my diagnosing or treatment stuff that you buy from me." That's one of the "bait and switch" games merchants and phony health practitioners play, to people they find vulnerable to a good story. You may well have illness of some kind, but a good witch doctor will get a vulnerable person to then "attribute" them to whatever can make the good "doctor" money. Meanwhile, a real disorder goes untreated.
There are no controls on such substances' manufacture and many "supplements" are poisoned with cheap or other nefarious ingredients.
It's also in yellow paints; and since we are talking yellow, I already can tell you that sometimes you can be poisoned by manufactures of turmeric in which lead is used in a dye to make turmeric more appealingly yellow, and bismuth is often associated found with lead. That's where I'd look, so many people use turmeric and a bright yellow color is for some reason considered appetizing so it is adulterated with lead, and bismuth is commonly found around lead. Turmeric is also a fad with the supplements crowd and so much demand for it as a food ingredient or a fad health nut thing could mean manufacturers adulterate it with lead to make enough to meet demand for that bright yellow color effect.
You didn't mention where you happen to live or have spent significant time; and we are assuming you have used a legitimate reputable method of diagnosis. The article Osidge posted suggests approaches to take.
Another article says: "Its biological half-life for whole-body retention is reported to be 5 days but it can remain in the kidney for years in people treated with bismuth compounds. Bismuth poisoning can occur and has according to some reports been common in relatively recent times.[87][89] As with lead, bismuth poisoning can result in the formation of a black deposit on the gingiva, known as a bismuth line." Another article states: " Many of its chemical properties are similar to those of arsenic and antimony, although they are less toxic than derivatives of those lighter elements."
Perhaps it is in your water; if your water is filtered through a strong acid somewhere, or if you purchase it bottled from somewhere you don't know about. Do you buy any exotic fluids that you drink?
It's also in Kaopectate. Too much chronic bismuth can make your teeth go slightly grey in the lower front edges.
"A simple, reliable, and fast bedside test is the modified Reinsch's test. It can identify mercury, arsenic, antimony, and bismuth. Use 10 to 15 g of gastric contents or tissue homogenate. Add 3 ml of concentrated hydrochloric and insert a copper wire spiral. Heat gently for two hours. A silvery deposit is mercury; shiny black is bismuth; dull black is arsenic; and purple is antimony. Confirmatory tests such as the Gutzeit test can confirm each deposit, and they can even be quantified. (For details, see Kaye S. Handbook of Emergency Toxicology, Charles C. Thomas, Springfield, IL. 1980, pp. 55, 84.)"
Also, interesting article here:
nature.com/articles/nchem.6...
It starts out with the intro: "ram mohan looks at how bismuth — a remarkably harmless element among the toxic heavy metals in the periodic table — has sparked interest in areas varying from medicinal to industrial chemistry. " (Remember above where I mentioned that if you are vulnerable to suggestion, someone with money to make from giving you a good story could be pulling your leg?)
Thanks for all the suggestions. The test I used is from a reputable company that I have had no contact with regarding selling me anything. I believe it is simply a lab. I do not use powdered turmeric and my supplements come from only reputable companies (pure encapsulations, Life Extension). I also remember to take them infrequently, so I'm not sure how they would impact my levels so drastically. I have checked all my bath/self-care products and switch them up often. I'm going to test my hair again and have my water tested. I did also come across a post about bismuth and dental cement. I am going to ask my dentist about that when I see him in September.
It sounds like you are doing everything right. Check your cookware. We had a stainless cookware demonstration, whereby 2 Tb of baking soda was combined with 2 cups of water and boiled for 10 minutes. All of the cookware water, even ceramic coated, tasted terrible. We finally ended up with new cookware that does not excrete metals.
Meaning what kind of cookware? What cookware does not excrete metals?
It has a terrible name. "Saladmaster". We both test very high in lead. Even though we have been detoxing, the levels were going up. We saw the cooking demonstration of saladmaster titanium cookware and now use that pretty much all the time. We purchased it used on Ebay.
There is a logical flaw operating here... two flaws actually, from three prongs of a syllogism. I think they might just result in a fallacy.
1. The assumption that what you have been told about some level of bismuth in a hair sample really constitutes some high systemic level of bismuth.
2. That some level of systemic bismuth can constitute an overdose of some kind.
3. That some amount of bismuth in your system or accumulation or whatever, is something that produces a toxic influence on your symptoms that has produced or increased your symptoms; rather than your symptoms being the natural result of something else and the question of busmuth simply being a coincidence, or a mistake...either there really is not so much bismuth, or bismuth, present or absent, makes no difference.
Actually each of these three are untested assumptions, as is the conclusion that there is any effect on your symptoms. We have seen zero actual basis or merit for granting that these assumptions are true.
That would not be to say that you don't have the symptoms and their recent progression...rather, to suggest that bismuth (or this story about bismuth) might just have little or nothing to do with them.
Reminds me of a little game I remember from an internship, called "bait and switch." (You see it in the sales game, such as unscrupulous tires or car sales too for example, same name.)
I don't believe there is any bait and switch. I happen to have high bismuth levels in my hair. I am exploring this and ruling things out (such as it may not be systemic or does not affect me or my PD). This was simply a search for any wisdom anyone had on Bismuth. I am going to test again with a different company and go from there. Thanks for all the input!
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