Statins avoided .. for now: I had been... - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation
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Statins avoided .. for now

I had been advised to go on statins despite no other risks than high cholesterol

Cholesterol reading Dec 18

Tot ... 8.2

HDL ..2.26

LDL ..5.52

Therefore ratio was 3.62

Atovastatin recommended but to go back April for re test

Started Benecol first week Jan & together with switching to rapeseed oil( I’d been using coconut oil!) plus eating porridge every day it is now under 7.. in under 4 months!

I’m so pleased as I eat a healthy diet anyway & am only about a stone overweight. I also swim regularly but perhaps not enough

My condition is familial & as my father was one of 14, died at 92 & no one has had heart disease, I am keen to avoid the statin route

I feel they are often pushed unnecessarily

Anyone think differently?

79 Replies
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Brazil nuts wil help to bring your cholesterol down. You only need a few:

nutritionfacts.org/video/fo...

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Wow! Just 4 Brazil nuts once a month. I’m up for that. I eat all nuts anyway so I’ll add brazils

Thanks!

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How interesting! I've been on statins for 4 years almost after a HA. I would like to stop them and try the nuts instead but that might not be a good idea for me to do that.

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Well done for changing your diet and taking charge of your life. According to studies I’ve read cholesterol isn’t to blame for heart disease.

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Yes but Brazil nuts might get people off the statins.

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We’ve all been called internet quacks on here though for daring to suggest people could get off statins 🙄. Also apparently because the BHF approves of them no one should speak out against them either on this forum. I’m happy all these folk are promoting statins for each other because that’s what they want to take. ☺️

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Is this the 2016 report mentioned here:

theguardian.com/science/sif...

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I didn’t mention any study/ report Michael so I’m confused? 🤔 I don’t read the guardian either sorry. There are many much more recent studies that have been published though. Many others have put good links on here already over the last few weeks but then got called internet quacks etc. Plus we’re told not to mention anything that’s not in line with the BHF advice. I’m happy everyone is taking their statins ☺️ Beautiful day isn’t it 🌞

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The quacks are probably those who label other people as quacks. 🤔

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I was too. Right up to my heart attack in April. My cholesterol was lower than yours, my BP was well controlled and I fell outside the Statin algorithm.

Is there a specific reason you don’t want them? I know I had fallen for the tabloid/anecdata about them without actually reading the science - I heard so much about bad side effects I automatically expected them.

The side effect from avoiding them was a full blown STEMI heart attack in April, and rushed back in just over a week ago with problems all along the main cardiac artery.

I am now on a high statin dose. No side effects.

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I just feel that I haven’t got any other risks .. mildly overweight only. Don’t smoke, eat healthily, exercise

BP on LOW side to normal

The nurse at the GPS simply follows a chart in deciding.

I have friends who were prescribed a statin & suffered awful side effects so came off them

Such differing views on them, it’s hard to decide really

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Side effects affect some people but others (most) have no side effects. I have been on atorvastatin 10mg per day for 21 years and the only “side effect” I have had is a good cholesterol count!!

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My husband has been on statins for 15+ years and he's never had a problem with them. The vast majority of people taking statins have few to no problems with them but you don't read bout them because its not "interesting" reading & doesn't make headlines!! My husband used to eat Brazil nuts, made no difference to his cholesterol at all.

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I've been on them about 10 years now with absolutely no problems at all. I will go off them when, and if, my Doctor/Consultant tells me too and not a minute before!!

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My mum has familial hypercholestimia too. She tried all the Benecol, grapefruit seed, nuts etc.

She’s now on statins.

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Yep, my GP used the chart thing (NHS call it an algorithm!) with me. Obviously if you don’t need them then you don’t. I’m just acutely aware of my low risk diagnosis (without the familial issue) and what transpired.

I think some people expect side effects because the media love a splashy headline to scare us (how many times has HRT changed from good to bad and back?!).

There are also a lot of different statins, so one might work for one person and not tolerated by another.

Seems odd to have more faith in things that have not been satisfactorily proven on the basis of anecdata and clever marketing (weirdly like a mirror of our current PM - people believed the hype and now look at us with our own Boris Trump!)

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There was a trail reported in The Lancet where as many people on a placebo experienced side effects as those on a statin! Such is the power of the media is including the Interclaims!

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Statins also help to reduce inflammation and stabilise even small areas of plaque in the coronary arteries.

I have unobstructed coronary arteries low cholesterol and low risk of Coronary artery disease.

The vasospastic angina I live with causes temporary narrowing of my blood vessels, clots could form and plaques break away so I am on statins and an anti-platelet to help prevent me having a heart attack or stroke.

Utilimately it is our own individual choice. I hope everyone is able to make an informed choice after a discussion with the Healthcare professional responsible for their care.

Dr Google's consultanting room is not always reliable.

All care is offered none is compulsory.

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Some statins can make you feel tired. Our Cardio doc suggested taking the tab at night. Unlike nitro meds it seems like the time of day isn’t important when you take -just that you take them every day.

Check with your doc next time you see.

Yours from Across the Pond

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You’re meant to take statins at night, that’s when your body produces the cholesterol 😉

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I thought the same on statins. Cholesterol had been 350’s for 19yrs. Had scans about 10yr ago no issues seen so I continued with my vitamins and got off all statins(had been on for 1yr due to numbers and family familial). I felt like someone’s science project.

July 5th (age 48) 6 stents and 4-5 balloons. I have 3 stents in widow-maker alone. Now I’m on Brulinta and metropolal awaiting Repatha injector. I still feel we need to know more but for now I’ll take them as the anxiety this has caused leaves me uneasy.

So I read and learn what I can in hopes something gives the answers I seek. Good luck in your decisions and welcome.

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the attached video is about statistical analysis around major statin trials from the last 30 plus years. It is not opinion, it is an analysis of trial findings. If you have familial watch to the end where he talks specifically about a trial which showed that even in this group cholesterol level was not the risk factor. It is food for thought!

David Diamond, Ph.D.: Assessing the Myth that Elevated Cholesterol Causes Cardiovascular Disease

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Him and his mates have a lovely book for sale!

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The more you read the more you know. It's hard to argue statistics. Something to think about, debate is useful.

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And Big Pharma have nothing at all to sell. 🤔

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Hmmm, and Big Pharma and their mates have lots of drugs to sell and billion dollar profit to make. 🤔

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I'm on statins following a heart attack. I don't have high cholesterol but they aren't causing and problems so I don't see why I should stop.

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Hi studies (and he’s heavily invested in the Keto movement btw) seems to focus on cholesterols and the elderly, that’s the study. And it seemed pretty inconclusive to even them bearing in mind comorbidities associated with the elderly. I have one heart attack, narrowly missed another much worse one. I remember Atkins being the big thing. If they’re selling something I’m not convinced I’m afraid!

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That’s why I don’t just believe all the studies on statins that were paid for by the company selling the statins lol. If they’re selling something I’m not convinced either 🙂

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Not unlike someone selling books and profiting from evangilising their personsl beliefs not based on research.....

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Yes, that's what Big Pharma do. 🤔

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Agree on both 🙂

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Yes! I have eaten a Mediterranean diet, ( including Brazil nuts daily! ) exercised daily, and drank moderately twice a week for decades I'm a healthy weight and I've never smoked. There is no history of heart disease in my family. My cholesterol was similar to yours so because I led such a heart healthy lifestyle my G. P. never prescribed statins and I was happy with this. 9 months ago I had a heart attack and am now on 9 tablets a day. One of the tablets is Atorvastatin 80mg. daily. I've side effects from the other meds. but not from the statins.

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Did you get any feedback on the cause of the heart attack - e.g. blocked arteries?

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One of my smaller arteries is 70% blocked. It's in too awkward a place to stent so management is with medication. I had no symptoms. The cardiologist has decided my cholesterol is familial. My mum's was fine but I never knew my dad's so I assume it's from his side of the family. His cause of death wasn't heart related.

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I thought all heart attacks are caused by blocked arteries - the medical words for it translates pretty much to that? Myo=muscle cardial =heart infarction = blockage (of oxygen).

I think where opinions differ is around how the arteries get narrowed. They know what the blockages are made of, and they know different types of arterial plaques are more likely to be unstable, and that those contain for of the chemical to encourage clotting. It’s the clot that causes the heart attack. The narrowings cause angina (which is a big red flag to being vulnerable to this chain of events).

I don’t dispute inflammation being a factor in the disease, it’s at the root to many things BUT I am not yet convinced that bad cholesterol is not as to blame. My year of ‘low risk, hurray no statins turned into ‘will I see my children grow up?’ In April.

I always marvelled at women who wore a ‘no pain relief for me’ invisible badge for childbirth. Most of here are alive thanks to the wonderful advances in medicine. Why turn your back on something that has been developed to benefit people? Not just by pharmaceutical companies, but via the auspices of charities such as the people running this forum!

Lots of cancer treatments have limited/as yet unreliable results, most surely wouldn’t turn their back on them? Heart disease is actually a bigger killer (certainly for women now) and yet we choose to doubt the prescribed treatment routes?

I genuinely struggle as to why people choose to be part of a forum that firmly promotes the current medical advice, and is populated mainly by people following this advice, and yet do not agree with that advice? It would be like me going onto a Keto forum and posting about statins!

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I know many people on keto still take statins, at least until their cholesterol comes down. They also wouldn’t probably call you a quack either just to shut you and your opinion up. Also other folk are just sharing newer medical studies with everyone so people can read and make their own minds up. I think sharing is caring and the only “ almost nasty “ comments have been from those who just don’t want to hear any reasoning against any of the drugs they’ve been given. I get that, I really do so I won’t share anything like it anymore. There are though still people that do ask questions and do want to learn more and want to share. I don’t think anyone can stop that or if it’s even healthy to try and stop it? I for one am happy for anyone taking the meds their doctors have given them. I have no appetite for dramatics about differing opinions. Each to their own.

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Please don't generalise, I'm one of those people who is all for conventional drugs, I have never made an almost nasty comment to you or, as far as I'm aware, to any one on this forum!!

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I have not in anyway suggested you have and am amazed at why you think it’s aimed at you. I’m happy as I have already stated for everyone who is taking their prescribed meds. There have however been quite a few “ almost nasty” feisty comments, including a whole post calling anyone an internet quack for researching outside of the NICE guidelines and lots of comments on various posts about “ how dare anyone say anything at all about statins” ( unless it’s 100% positive) I have in no way indicated any one person in this, I’ve taken all the insults thrown at me on the chin and not thrown any back. I’m under no illusion the comments/ posts like that are made to completely shut down anyone with a different view ! How are any of us going to learn if we don’t debate and research and SHARE. My answer was 2 Days ago to someone else!! Please don’t try and make more drama where there isn’t any and none intended on my part!

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First, I hadn't realised there was a time limit for replying to comments and the whole point of the forum is being able to comment on posts. Secondly, your comments "I think sharing is caring and the only “ almost nasty “ comments have been from those who just don’t want to hear any reasoning against any of the drugs they’ve been given" gives the impression that all who disagree have been nasty. Thirdly, I don't consider my objection to being lumped (for want of a better word) in with those who've may or may not have made almost nasty comments as being any more dramatic then your objection to the word "quack"!

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I agree with you, the whole point is to be able to comment on posts. ☺️ Don’t like love island though 🤣

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I'm pleased to hear it, contrary to popular rumour I've never watched it myself!

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Er, u said I liked Love Island 🌴... so...,

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Er, no I said you like Ed...!!

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Well that’s even more inflammatory on my statue... than a sugary jam doughnut is on the endothelium of my left anterior descending artery 🍩

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Just off to Google that!!!

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Wot sugary jam doughnut 😂

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Don't do sugary jam 🍩 but if you're buying Krispy Kremes I'm your bestest friend ☺

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Oh Lezzers you may have lit the blue fuse paper with that comment.

I am not sure if Gunsmoke is a true admirer of the ginger one?🧨💥

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He told me he's Ed's biggest fan, was he not telling the truth?? 🤔

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Let's hope Gunsmoke is able to fess up on this one.😂

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Hi Sillyfroggy

About 6% of heart attacks are not due to blockages known as Myocardial infarction non obstructive coronary arteries. MINOCA

Causes microvascular angina and vasospastic angina. Takostubo syndrome, spontaneous coronary artery dissection.

Ischaemia is when there is a reduced flow of blood to an organ it can be caused by a permanent blockage or temporary constriction of the blood vessels.

Infarction means the permanent death of the tissue of the organ.

I live with myocardial ischaemia with clear coronary arteries because all my coronary arteries go into spasm. Lots of angina at rest not in response to exercise.

I have so far always got to hospital in time to get the treatment to stop any permanent damage or myocardial infarction- heart attack.

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Thanks milkfairy 😊👍

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Thanks for this post. I agree with their findings and there is a wealth of statistical data out there to support their comments.

I have read a lot of comments written on this site along the lines of "I live a healthy lifestyle and take plenty of exercise, How is it my arteries are clogged up and I have just had a heart attack".

How do you get people to change what they eat?

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Why should you get people to change what they eat? How can we get people to accept the BHF/NHS diet is correct? People are intelligent enough & perfectly capable of reading, researching, and then choosing for themselves. If they wish to follow BHF/NHS advice, take statins or do anything else you may disagree with then that is their choice. If they don't wish to follow the BHF/NHS diet etc, that is equally their choice. Also, there are plenty of comments where people say I'm following the BHF/NHS recommended diet & lifestyle & are doing very well on it, etc.

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Obesity rates are increasing rapidly, pre diabetes and insulin resistance rates are also increasing rapidly. Diabetes and Alzheimers rates are also rising markedly. Legal and General Insurance company has just handed its shareholders an enhanced dividend because increased life expectancy rates have gone into reverse in Britain and America

The food industry is packing more and more sugar into processed food and making informed decisions more and more problematical. Smoking habits were changed by clear information which people could act upon and they did, in large numbers.

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People have previously argued the points you've raised so I'm not going to repeat them. The point I was making was people will, can & do make their own choices. Its not for any of us on this forum to "get people to change what they eat" we can only advise them & give them our experiences. My experience is my husband had a massive heart attack and cardiac arrest 21 years ago & was not expected to live for long. He turned his life around, followed the BHF/NHS recommended diet & lifestyle and has taken statins for 15+ years with no problems. Why would we want to change something that has so obviously worked for him!

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I don’t think people want to learn or listen to be honest. They want their cure all drugs from the GP and get quite feisty if anyone mentions that other ways could work better. But it’s the same few people that have that belief as you will see if you stick around. I’ve talked to my GP endlessly about this and she admits all she can do is follow NICE guidelines. Probably the same for the BHF too. Their hands are tied until NICE say otherwise. We all have to learn for ourselves I think and the way of thinking is changing slowly but surely. Even BBC had a program on eating low carb last night. Amazing 😉

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Hi Ianc2,

I mention and suggest, and then leave the person/people to decide for themselves.

For example, I'd spent years mentioning the potential consequences of chronic Vit D3 to friends and acquaintances who had what seemed to me like Vit D3 deficiency. I reminded each person again and again to ask their doctor to do a Vit D3 blood test. With one of my friends I gave up and never mentioned it again. 3 years later he said he owed me thanks.. and then explained that I used to mention Vit D3 to him but then stopped and never mentioned it again. After that, he eventually asked his doctor for a Vit D3 blood test and it showed that he was very deficient. He then told me of the improvements he'd noticed within a short time of taking the Vit D3 and improving his blood levels of it.

I've had different people do the same; they respond with doubt, scepticsm and cynicism... and then tell me that they finally had the test and were found to be deficient.

Ps. It's important to maintain optimal Vit D3 levels all year, not just during summer.

grassrootshealth.net/wp-con...

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My level of respect for doctors and consultants has, over the years, significantly dropped... because of their many failures to inform and help.

Despite my HbA1C of at least 6.something (when I'd never even heard of HbA1C) and despite a consultant mumbling out loud as he read from my medical file that I have cataracts (he and his colleagues hadn't told me), neither he nor my GP ever mentioned any association between cataracts... and sugars/carbs/starches. When I asked why, at about age 30 yrs, I had cataracts and what could have possibly caused it, they had zero answer. The retina consultant just said that they won't do surgery until my eyesight is severely impaired. He offered not one word of the possible dietary causes of cataracts. After years of research, trying to make sense of my different symptoms and conditions, I learnt that an HbA1C of 6 or so (which I was) is within the pre-diabetic category and that I had been pre-disbetic for several years, if not for decades. If you listen to some experts in this field (e.g. Prof. Ken Sikaris) you'll know that your body is adversely impacted not just by Diabetes but also by pre- Diabetes. If you're pre-Diabetic, you may as well consider yourself Diabetic. Even when my HbA1C dropped to 5.8 it was still in the pre-Diabetic range, but I neither knew nor had ever heard of pre-diabetes. Instead, I had naively trotted back and forth to GP's and hospital consultants who either knew nothing - or simply chose to say nothing - about sugars/carbs/starches and their impact on eyesight, brain health, cardiovascular health, reproductive health, and everything else.

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Thanks for the video - I wasn't aware of the link between cataracts and sugar consumption. Another nail in the sugar life style.

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My comments were not aimed at you personally, you have made the required changes to your diet and lifestyle. My concerns were more for society in general which seems to be heading for an epidemic of obesity related illnesses, with lives being wrecked because there is a general lack of awareness of the damage that is being inflicted on them by the diet that they follow.

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I also think obesity is a major issue but do not blame carbs or fats but people for stuffing themselves full of carp (those with medical or mental problems excepted). Yesterday I watched a documentary on Punk. They spoke with John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten). Whereas he was skinny in his Sex Pistol days he is now quite obese. He was also smoking! (Mick needs to have a quiet word!)

When I watched Boris' first appearance as PM (do not really do politics) I noticed the number of overweight/obese MPs is far too high. They want to improve the nation's health do why not set an example by doing sponsered slim with all monies going to charity!

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I thought carp would be healthy coz it’s fish 🐟 😂

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It's an anagram rather than an angiogram! 😁

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Oh right gotcha 😂

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See, nothing fishy! 😁

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Don't tell him your name Pike.

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What kind of music does an inspired Latin fish listen to?

Carp E.D.M.

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I made no mention of my diet or my lifestyle in my comments!

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JB1959

Your thread has been overtaken by humour.

Laughter is the best medicine.... you never know it might even lower cholesterol too😉

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Brill! Haha.. another fishy retort!

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All I would say is, my husband didn't have high cholesterol, never smoked, hardly drank, not overweight, kept active, good diet. 3 weeks ago he had cardiac arrest at home. I performed CPR ( not trained, talked through it by the 999 operator) until the paramedics arrived and then airlifted to hospital. My husband was intensive care for 10 days. He has just been transferred to a Neurological Rehabilitation unit where they hope to improve his memory function. My family has been through hell. Don't put your family through what we have been through. I have since been to my own Doctor and given my own family heart history she has put me on statins.

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Austrialover,

I am so sorry to read of your experience.

My brother in law in his mid forties had an out of hospital Cardiac arrest a few years ago, witnessed by his young son.

Luckily a passerby knew how to perform CPR.

He is back at work now with only slight memory issues.

I wish your husband a speedy recovery and I hope you find time for yourself too to come to terms with what has happened

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You have my very best wishes & sympathy. My husband also had an out of hospital cardiac arrest following a massive heart attack. I had to help my neighbour do CPR, very traumatic & you carry that trauma with you through the years. My husband has cognitive issues now due to lack of oxygen. I agree, why put anyone through this if taking a statin could help prevent it. I hope your husband continues to recover well & that his memory function improves xxx

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statins make me ill tried 3 my chol is 5.2 so ill I told my Doctor never again.

I am still suffering 6 weeks later.

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There are alternatives to statins for lowering LDL cholesterol. For instance Ezetimibe work reducing the amount of cholesterol absorbed from the intestine. These can be given in association with a fibrate to lower cholesterol further. Have a talk with your GP.

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This research suggests that people over 75 still benefit from taking statins.

Their chance of having a heart attack or stroke both reduced.

academic.oup.com/eurheartj/...

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