Coronary heart disease: Hi I am new on... - British Heart Fou...

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Coronary heart disease

Braydo
Braydo
62 Replies

Hi

I am new on here. Today i have been diagnosed with chd. I also have heart arrythmias. I have been suffering with unstable angina now for the last 3 months or so. I have to go on an array of medication. I feel absolutely devastated. No family history and i eat a healthy diet. I feel my whole world has collapsed. I am only 55 and feel like this is the end. I feel so lonely and scared. Is anyone out there have the same with arrythmias. I have read that to have arrythmias and chd is really bad.

62 Replies
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isobelhannah18

I had a heart attack 4 months ago with no warning. I've gone from 0 tablets to nine. I led a really healthy lifestyle; never smoked; moderate drinker; Mediterranean diet and exercised daily so to say I was devastated was an understatement! I've been on this forum since my H.A and disbelief, vulnerability, fear all seem to be common reactions to any diagnosis that's heart related. Your self-image, self- esteem and confidence take a big knock and seem to completely change. Your reaction is normal.

This forum is a massive help. There always seems to be some kind person available to give me positive stories, help and advice. Look at older posts to find some helpful stories.The B.H.F. nurses are great and the community cardiac nurses in my area are brilliant. Give yours a ring and find out about what's available for cardiac rehab in your area. I'm slowly learning that it needn't be the end.

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Braydo

Thanks forthe encouragement. Spoke to my cardiologist today who has eased my fears. The only thing i worry about is aspirin as it reallyirritates my syomach and i have had a previous duodenal ulcer. My cardiologist has said to go on copridogrel. I dont know if anyone else has had this prolem. Is copridogrel safer in respects to bleeding.

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Chappychap

Braydo, I'm sure from your current perspective that you'll find this difficult to agree with, but in many respects you're actually one of the lucky ones.

Heart disease care in this country, unlike say cancer, isn't really focused on early detection. So an awful lot of people only discover they have heart disease after having a heart attack or a stroke. However, you've been fortunate enough to have your condition diagnosed before either of those events. With a bit of luck, some life style changes, and some medication, you'll live your life without ever experiencing either. And that's cause for celebration because heart attacks are the number one killer, and strokes are the number one cause of long term disability (ie being confined to a wheelchair).

I had a heart bypass out of the blue following an angiogram for chest pains. So I'm in a similar category to you. At first I was devastated, but now I thank my lucky stars that angina rather than heart attacks or strokes triggered the diagnosis.

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jimmyq

What are you calling a "healthy diet"?

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Braydo

For the last 12 months i followed a srict vegan diet and used no oil. I became really ill. Suffering with anxiety and chest pain. Gp told me to come of rhe diet and just watch the fats, which i have done but try and still stayway from oil when possible. Reading the books reversing heart disease was good but not sustainable as everything you buy has some form of oil in it. Theres not much help out there whenyou need informationabout foods. You can easily getcaught up in a spiders web reading whats good and whats bad. So now i just read everything. Stay away from fats as much as possible and the same with all oils.

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DavidG1971
DavidG1971
in reply to Braydo

Food is a tough isn’t it? I started off very hardcore - but softening by the day. Red meat is mostly gone, butter very rare, no bars of chocolate or biscuits. But otherwise going back to normal. I’ve decided based on my past that sugar was my vice ....i don’t think my diet was particularly fatty. So sugar is the thing I’m being careful with.

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Padayn01

Hi Braydo, when you say all oils are you talking about all oils such as Olive oil, Coconut Oil etc?

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Braydo
Braydo
in reply to Padayn01

Yes... the concept is that oils keep the arterial walls inflamed which means heart disease. By not having oils not even a tiny bit this includes every type of oil, it can reverse heart disease. There is a medical paper written about the trial.. but the diet is really restrictive all vegan so can be very difficult to sustain especially if you are not a vegan.

I did end up ill after just 4 weeks onthe diet though, lacking in vital vitamins. You really need to do your homework that you aregetting enough vitamins and essential nutrients, and know what foods have what vitamins. Ifound it verytime consuming .

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Padayn01
Padayn01
in reply to Braydo

Wow I thought I little bit of olive oil reduces the risk of heart diseases, that must be a very hard diet to substain so how would you do most of your cooking?

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Padayn01

I thought you needed some oils for your body to function. Not sure I'd want to do a diet that is so restrictive that whilst it might help your heart it has a detrimental effect on other organs etc. Also, am I missing something? The poster has said he cut out oil for 12 months but has just recently been diagnosed with CHD? Would that not suggest that cutting out the oils has not protected his heart? My husband had a massive heart attack 21 years ago which left him with a badly damaged heart. His diet now is the recommended diet, lots of fruit, veg etc, no added salt, everything in moderation & extra virgin oil olive, if needed for cooking. My husband has never had any further heart problems other than he was diagnosed with heart failure 7 years ago, but that is a result of the original damage & natural aging.

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Braydo
Braydo
in reply to Lezzers

Yes the body need fats certainly. We need the the fatty chains omega 3 oils omega 9 and omega 6. But the ratio to good fats omega 3 and omega 6 used to be 1-2. We are noweating as a nation something like 1-16. Thats because of all th3 packet foods available at supermarkets. Check around your cupboards that you th8nk is healthy, bet that 9 out of 10 products will have oils added (omega 6).

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Braydo

Thanks for your advice. We eat very little packaged or processed food, tend to stick with oily fish, fruit veg, skinned chicken, etc. I even check where our chicken/meat etc comes from. Happy to pay a bit more for fresh free range but not everyone is able to afford to do this. Sadly, unhealthy good is cheaper! When we first started out on this heart journey we read everything on all packages & was shocked by what they contained, it can get a bit obsessive!! I think we've pretty much got it nailed now though

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Rob6868
Rob6868
in reply to Braydo

Please don't believe everything you read in How to reverse heart disease.

Yes it's good...to a point! But it's outdated and oil...well I have to say that as far as I'm concerned extra virgin olive oil is good for you.You can't get much cleaner..Vegan diets are very hard to adhere to and alot of the Vegan food is actually Not good for you..

As for Mr ESTYLTYN...SORRY CAN'T SPELL IT AT THE MOMENT..He says don't eat corn...yet on there intagram account they are happily eating huge amounts of corn in he's dining table lol...So I do what most do..Eat as healthy as possible with my olive oil...like you I went all out Vegan. yes I lost weight and everyone commented but I became weak and very fatigured.

So now I eat a little bit Vegan..a little bit veggie and mostly Mediterranean..If I'm worried about anything it's the magnesium I could be depleted in because of statins and Coq10...

I'm only 50 and have 4 daughters and like you I'm suffering daily angina attacks that are affecting my work and home life. I believe I have micro vascular Angina and that's not good.

I had a 99%blocked LAD...and before all of this happened I felt as strong as an Ox.Like you I now feel desperate most days and struggle. But what choice do we have other than to keep pushing on and pushing our consultants to help us and pray we are all here in the next 5,10,15 years...hence why I have just done my life insurance...something people seem not to think about because they always feel it won't happen to them.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Rob6868

100% agree with your diet. Can I ask who you managed to get life insurance with?

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Rob6868
Rob6868
in reply to Lezzers

Yes of course..I went through the usual heart related insurer's but alot of them had sticking points..but they suggested many others who basically don't care if you have a pre exsiting heart condition. They found me the best deal with the huge company AIG they have many ways round things others don't..They pay out immediately within 90 days if it's an accident or 2years from acceptance if you have an illness.

so in theory I just need to stay alive about 21months and my kids will be in the money lol😅😄😃😃😂

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Rob6868

Thanks I'll check them out. When I was in insurance, if insurers considered covering you at all they always excluded existing medical conditions!!

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Rob6868
Rob6868
in reply to Hidden

Be careful of turmeric if your on blood thinner trigelor...because turmeric is a blood thinner too..I was strongly advised not to take it while I'm on blood thinners.

I'm looking into Dr sinatra and he's supplements and magnesium.

most of us are deficient in magnesium hence why I'm looking into i because I have constant muscle twitching and fatigue.

But with all supplements it's finding the purest possible and that's hard.

I'm probably going to wait till May when my blood thinners stop to decide what to take...I'm probably also going to get my bloody tattoos finished so I don't bleed all over the bloody floor.

I'm going back to docs Monday and want to do an action plan and change consultants because if what I believe I have...MVA then my cardiologist can't deal with it and I'm struggling daily with it..

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Braydo
Braydo
in reply to Padayn01

Fry foods with water. Of couse i am talking about when sweating vegatables when preparing for a dish i.e speghetti bolognese chilli etc. It is possible to cook with no oil, even make your own bread. Its just the other products everyday stuff that i found difficult because 9 out of 10 it has oil in it. All package food has oil. We eat far too much oil . They do say eat good fats ie lessenor reduce saturated fats but heart disease is far too complicated to just fats. My cardiologist says that fats is only about 20% of theproblem. The restis lifestyle,stress ,and exercise.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Braydo

It's processed oils and excess insulin that cause the inflammation

The PREDIMED study established that nuts and/or olive oil reduced heart events by 30% more than a low-fat diet.

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Rob6868
Rob6868
in reply to Concerned

Well said concerned

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Hidden

I can only base my reply on our experience. Lots of oily fish, fruit, veg, no added salt, skinned chicken, extra virgin olive oil. Very very limited processed food, limited red meat & plenty of exercise when possible. 21 years ago my husband wasn't expected to survive, he's doing very well

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Hidden

I know that there is a school of thought that says we should have more fat in our diet etc, but we asked my husbands nurse & she said no to fat and eveything in moderation. She’s a highly qualified consultant heart failure nurse who’s partly funded by the BHF & as it’s worked all these years we’re sticking with it!

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Speakeazi
Speakeazi
in reply to Lezzers

Lots of useful info, thank you. The other oil I was recommended to use is rapeseed. I’m not much good at science- I’m sure Dr Google (with the usual proviso that we check the source!) will give the reasons why.

Rapeseed oil is much cheaper than olive oil and is often sold as Vegetable oil.

Thanks for the exercise reminder! Upstairs I go to the bike.

Take care everyone.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Speakeazi

I live in a very rural area so I'm surrounded by rape seed, its probably cheap as its grown in abundance & so easy to grow. It is very pungent, so my worse nightmare was when the fields opposite my house were planted with it... Didn't do my hay fever any favours!!

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Hidden

The ICS-NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme has approaches that include up to 10 portions of natural fat such as olive oil, avocado, nuts, meat fats and full-fat dairy, based on the latest evidence.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

Who are the ICD-NHS diabetes prevention programme? Are they affiliated to the NHS? As I've just read the NHS diabetes site & the site is saying the following "Milk and dairy foods: go for lower-fat varieties

Milk and dairy foods such as cheese and yoghurt are good sources of protein. They also contain calcium, which helps keep your bones healthy.

To enjoy the health benefits of dairy without eating too much fat, use semi-skimmed, 1% fat or skimmed milk, as well as lower-fat hard cheeses or cottage cheese, and lower-fat, lower-sugar yoghurt.

Unsweetened calcium-fortified dairy alternatives like soya milks, soya yoghurts and soya cheeses also count as part of this food group and can make good alternatives to dairy products."

That seems to contradict the advice you're giving re full fat dairy?

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

Yes. ICS are one of the four providers to deliver the approved programme for the NHS.

I'm not giving advice; I'm enabling people to make an informed choice.

Of course there's a lot of money invested in the old, low-fat advice.

While we're on the subject, NICE guideline NG28 1.3.3 insists that people with type 2 should be given the same low-Gi guidance as the general population, and yet it is commonplace not to implement that because looking at the Eatwell Guide it includes high-glycaemic foods such as Shredded Wheat, Weetabix, wholemeal bread, jacket potatoes, and rice.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

How do you mean there's a lot of money invested in old low fat advice, who's interest would it be in to give advice that is not beneficial? Also, the dairy advice you've given contradicts the NHS advice regarding low fat diet, if the NHS advice is money driven how does that work?

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Lezzers

Ps, how has this diet benefited you?

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

Eating a sensible amount of low Gi carbohydrates, and natural fats has prevented me developing pre-diabetes which most of my siblings now have, and heart disease, thank you for asking.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

Thanks for your reply, I realise I know nothing of you, your history, risks etc but how much & what type of dairy full fat would you normally consume weekly/monthly? Presumably you have a heart condition, how does it react to this diet? Sorry, if this is a bit personal, feel free to ignore it if you think it's intrusive.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

I eat about 75g of cheddar and 125g of mascarpone most days, plus sometimes whole milk with 1/3 cup of porridge.

Despite my Mam's heart failure, and my Dad having several heart attacks, as I said I don't have a heart condition.

I came to the forum to let people know it is not inevitable from your genes.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

Thank you for your info, that is quite a lot of full fat. My husband has a review with his GP on Tuesday, I will see if her opinion is the same as his HF nurse. And yes, I can see where you're coming from re genes, my dad had 2 heart attacks & several cardiac arrests & my sister was born with a heart condition though nobody else in the family any heart condition. My mum had type 2 diabetes though her diet was high in fat but no one else has had it. My mother in law lived till 92 and never spent a day in hospital even having had 7 children, yet one son had a stroke at 26 & my husband had a massive heart attack at 42. When we told the cardiologist this, his reply was back then people got more exercise they didn't get in the car to go everywhere. So maybe the answer is exercise rather then the diet! "

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

In a typical day I also usually eat some nuts, eggs, coconut, and possibly avocado, peanut butter, meat fats (including lard), butter, double cream or olives too. Most of my calories come from this.

I had a scan that confirmed my CAC score as zero.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

All but the butter, double cream & meat fats I agree with but I'm afraid I'm not convinced about those. When did you have your scan? Does it show what's going on with your arteries? Have you ever had an angiogram? What is CAC? I'm sure I should know!! You mentioned most of your family have diabetes &/or heart conditions, that also indicates that you have family that does not have these conditions. There are a lot of questions there, are they siblings? How old are they, what are their different diets, what were there diets previously compared to now? What part does exercise play in their life?? No need to answer, I'm just trying to make a point that there are 2 many factors to take into account which cannot be adequately discussed in forums like this. I'll speak to the GP on Tuesday & will get back to you. But thank you for replying. Sorry, one last question to help me discuss it with the GP, have you ever had a heart specialist agree with you regarding the dairy full fat diet? If yes, what was their medical qualifications, ie, cardiologist, heart nurse etc? Thanks

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Chappychap

"Eating a sensible amount of low Gi carbohydrates, and natural fats has prevented me developing pre-diabetes"

How do you know that you're not pre-diabetic?

I measure my fasting blood glucose levels, and they're encouraging low. However, I understand that there are at least two additional tests, both of which are more stringent.

Firstly there's a glucose stress test that measure's glucose at regular intervals following the intake of a sugary drink. I intend on getting this test done privately, but haven't had it yet.

The second test however is the real gold standard, it basically repeats the stress test, but as well as measuring glucose in your blood it also measures insulin. I believe that this is the critical test that underpins the keto style diet that you recommend. Have you therefore had this test, and in which case where? I haven't found anywhere in the UK that offers it.

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Concerned

You are quite right that to confirm I don't have insulin-resistance I would need a post-prandial insulin test.

Pre-diabetes is measurable by HbA1c however.

I don't recommend a keto diet per se.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

Public Health England consult with the food industry to formulate the Eatwell Guide. It's a re-hash of what originated from the USDA in the 1970s.

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Rob6868
Rob6868
in reply to Concerned

Do you advocate Low GI foods and low carb high fat diet...like a Keto but not as extreme..as is mentioned by Mr Ivor Cummings.

I'm sure you've heard of him..

I think you posted one of he's videos on YouTube.

About insulin resistance and inflammation.

I think that guy is bang on and the cholesterol thing is all out of hand these days..

Also do you know anything about LDL PARTICLE NUMBERS?

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Rob6868

Keto is a bit extreme. The body uses about 120g to 160g of carbohydrate per day, so that is the optimal amount to eat.

If we eat less than that it attempts to make up the deficit from other foods. More than that and the excess is turned to fat (lipogenesis, an excess is what forms visceral fat and dyslipidaemia), so again we are better to eat and gain the fat soluble vitamins plus minerals that go with natural fat.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Concerned

LDL particle numbers refer to the amount of VLDL that is easily oxidised and comes from eating too high glycaemic-loads, compared to harmless, large-fluffy LDL.

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CocoNutWater

Just my experience:

Had a private heart CT scan overseas as a health check up, all OK with some soft plaque on LAD. I went with my results to a private cardiologist back in the UK for an hour’s consultation. He said no problem, but his advice (and what he does) was as follows:

1. No processed food

2. Some oil is fine. He ate butter in moderation.

3. The usual stuff about smoking and alcohol.

4. Exercise is essential and that means cardio exercise. Weight lifting, yoga, Pilates, etc, are OK but do little for your heart health. Cardio such as running or cycling is a must.

The cardiologist was almost the same age as me (nearly 50) and nice and slim. He practices what he preaches, so keeping the weight off is right up there in helping your heart.

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Concerned

Agreed, but I see the weight gain, particularly middle-age spread, as a cumulative symptom of excess insulin that has been going on for years for many people.

Similarly, the cardio is vital for heart health, but too much is as bad as too little, and you shouldn't attempt to undo what you eat with exercise; change what you eat.

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CocoNutWater

Even in healthy adults, the metabolism slows so weight gain is more likely.

Too much cardio would be very difficult to do. The rest of your body such as your knees would start to complain if you ran or cycled for hours and hours on a daily basis, plus exhaustion would kick in, but too much cardio would be very rare.

The cardiologist said diet was important, but he didn’t mince his words about the importance of cardio.

(Btw, I just read my reply, and it sounds a bit high and mighty which is certainly not my style 😆 I really dislike cardio and would much prefer walking on a treadmill or pumping a few weights, but the cardio doc wasn’t having it. It had to be cardio. Obviously, there can be “too much” cardio in extreme cases. I mentioned I reached heart rates of 155 (my max for my age is supposedly 171) for up to 15 minutes at a time whilst running. The doc’s reply was “that’s fine, excellent in fact, but don’t keep at that rate for hours”. I couldn’t exercise like that for hours.)

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jimmyq

My wife and I started a Whole Food Plant Based (WFPB) lifestyle in March 2018. We get our oils from nuts, seeds, avocados. We eat nuts on most days, seeds on most days (made into crackers), avocados on salads on most days. We don't cook with any oils. We also eat peas, beans or lentils every day to get our protein. Neither of us has been ill because of the diet. We take Vitamin B12 & D supplements on medical advice. We also take a multivitamin out of paranoia. I take Q10 as well. If you do the diet properly there is no reason to become ill.

The ideal BP is 120/80. Mine has been as high as 240/140 but went down to 190/100 with treatment in 2016. I still had a mini-stroke in 2017 though. My BP is now 120/80.

The ideal cholesterol is below 5. Mine was 6.5 for years, nothing budged it until this diet. It is now 3.7.

My weight was 14.5st and is now 12.5st, the same as when I was in my twenties.

If my arteries were still blocked my blood pressure would still be up. This means that my arteries must be clearing out.

My wife has had hay fever, asthma and allergies since she was a child. These have all cleared up. Absolutely no hay fever all last summer and we had Christmas Dinner with our daughter's family, they have 2 cats - no problem. The last time she went there she wound up being off sick for a week.

I understand that this lefestyle doesn't suit everyone but if you can do it and reap the benefits that is brilliant. If you can't do it, just do as much as you can. Caving in altogether means not getting any benefits.

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Lezzers

My last word on the subject, this thread has been the most I've ever had anyway on Internet media!! Concerned hasn't come back to me with confirmation that he's discussed the full fat dairy diet with any heart specialist. I've looked at the eatwell diet, diabetes sites, NHS, BHF, & so on and they all say substitute, where you're able to, full fat to low fat diary products. I struggle to understand why people are obsessing about their "diets", eat sensibly as per the recommendations guidelines, if you're eating a healthy balanced diet then there shouldn't be any reason for additional vitamins etc. Don' let your diet become your life, because then you're not living you're just existing!! But even more importantly, the sun is shining, get out there and take advantage of it. I'm off for a walk, that will help my heart considerably more than sitting here typing!! Have a good day all.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

I didn't see the last question you added later. I left expecting you to talk to a nurse about it.

The guidance I follow is from the ICS-NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme, which is the approved programme for North East Lincolnshire, and many other counties. This is different to the Eatwell Guide in that it complies with NICE Guidelines NG28 recommendation 1.3.3 with regard to recommending low-Gi nice.org.uk/guidance/ng28/c... . Notice that it says this information should be for the general public too.

"Ah, but I don't have diabetes" The British Heart Foundation had a campaign that acknowledged the link between diabetes and heart disease you will remember?

I totally agree about real-food providing all the vitamins you need, whereas a low-fat diet often results in a deficiency. A balanced diet is exactly what is necessary, and unfortunately many people's perception of a balanced diet has been harmfully skewed by vested, conflicted interests.

Thank you for facilitating my right to reply.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Concerned

Hmm, my question was always there!! Not sure why you would think I would be talking to a nurse about this issue when I clearly said we would be seeing the GP & would speak to her about it. As you were aware the appt was today, you've replied too late for me to take this forward. Infact, you still haven't answered the question "have you ever spoken to a heart specialist about your full fat diet"! I'm a bit confused about your comments re eat well guide as I've seen comments on other posts where you recommend this guide, the guide clearly states substitute full fat for low fat. I find your comments regarding the link between diabetes & heart disease "REMEMBER" quite patronising, firstly because we have never discussed any link previously. Secondly & most importantly, I have been dealing with my husbands serious heart condition for 21 years, in that time my small brain has managed to retain some information including, surprisingly, the " link"!!! I wish you well for your future, my husband will continue with the diet recommended by the NHS & BHF as it has proven results, particularly in his case & I don't feel the need to justify my case any further. If you feel you need the last word, please do carry on however I will no longer reply.

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Concerned
Concerned
in reply to Lezzers

To answer your question, I have spoken to a heart specialist because my wife has heart disease, and the full-fat information is from the NDPP, not just mine.

I always make it clear that the Eatwell Guide is what PHE recommend to enable them to make an informed decision.

Personally, I don't have heart disease, and don't follow the Eatwell Guide, not least because it encourages people to eat high-glycaemic carbohydrates such as jacket potatoes, Shredded Wheat, Weetabix, wholemeal bread and rice, touting them as being healthy, when they most definitely aren't because it is the lipogenesis from these that cause dyslipidaemia and visceral fat.

I understand you not wanting to reply.

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Fortepiano
Fortepiano
in reply to Lezzers

Dear Lezzers

I just wanted to say thank you for being a voice of sanity here. Your diet sounds excellent!

I'm sure you don't want this thread to carry on, but just to reassure you, the NHS National Diabetes Prevention Programme (NDPP) supports the Eatwell guide, and reducing saturated fat, contrary to Concerned's claims. I found the specifications for the providers delivering the programme. england.nhs.uk/publication/...

The specifications to be followed by the NDPP providers include:

'Achievement of UK dietary recommendations related to fibre, fruit and

vegetables, oily fish, saturated fat, salt and free sugars'.

'The syllabus must include the broader UK dietary recommendations as detailed in the Eatwell plate.[now the Eatwell guide] This involves ( for some) increased intake of fibre, fruit and vegetables and oily fish, and decreased intake of saturated fat, sugar, salt and energy; 
The Provider must support Service Users to aim to meet as many of the dietary recommendations as possible.'

As you see from the above, Concerned is completely misrepresenting the NHS NDPP position.

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Concerned

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you missed this position statement in a previous reply xperthealth.org.uk/Portals/...

However, if you continue to call me a liar in ignorance of the facts, I will attempt to take this further.

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Fortepiano

This link is not to an NHS statement. Interesting that you don't actually deny the documentary facts I have cited.

I deal in NHS documents about the NDPP.

You deal in assertions and threats.

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Concerned

I'm grateful to you for providing that requirement, because, as I explained previously, that would account for the low-fat approach they include.

No it's not an NHS statement; it's from the people who train the trainers for ICS.

As for the hostile language, I don't really understand why administration would consider that permissible in the spirit of support on the forum.

To answer your accusation of threats; I suppose I should just roll-over and accept you trying to discredit the information from the NDPP that doesn't fit with your belief?

In the mean time, this is from the North East Lincolnshire CCG northeastlincolnshireccg.nh... Note the reference "“I think this programme is marvellous. It’s a strong message, but the major problem it faces is undoing generations of dietary thinking. I’ve heard people saying it’s just another fad and arguing that the diet can’t work and that cholesterol will go up. It’s tough to undo this thinking, but I think we’ve got to start somewhere. I feel incredible lucky to have had this message presented to me now, as this programme has turned my life around.”

Very apt!

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Fortepiano

Unlike the zealots of the LCHF cult, I have no 'beliefs' re diet, any more than I have 'beliefs' re cardiology or global warming. Instead I look for the scientific consensus ( not pseudo-scientific babble) and reputable organisations like the NHS, PHE, and BHF, and follow their evidence-based advice, not the LCHF pressure groups and fad diet gurus which abound on the internet.

You don't seem to understand the difference between the NHS NDPP and the behaviour of ICS - a private company. The NHS, PHE , Diabetes UK specifications for the NDPP programme state clearly that it is based on the Eatwell guide and providers are required to follow this. If someone in North Lincolnshire from the private ICS company (which is indeed linked to that much-criticised LCHF pressure group which calls itself the 'Public Health Collaboration' ) is not following the Eatwell recommendations, they are in fact acting against the NHS NDPP specifications they agreed to and which I have quoted.

Fat people can lose weight on many extreme restrictive fad weight-loss diets like LCHF which are unhealthy and unbalanced in the long term.

As the document I quoted proves, the actual NHS NDPP supports the Eatwell guide and to say it doesn't is completely misleading.

Fortunately it is clear other providers have followed the NHS NDPP specifications :

miltonkeynesccg.nhs.uk/modu...

oneyouhounslow.org/2018/05/...

berkshirewestccg.nhs.uk/med...

You have threatened me twice and told me you resent my 'interference' - I find that pretty hostile!

This is a indeed a support group for those with heart problems, and I have posted in support of people here concerning many different problems. In my responses I have always been very careful to follow BHF and NHS guidance for heart disease.

In contrast you have joined the BHF forum primarily to troll against BHF nutritional advice and the eminently sensible and balanced Eatwell guide and to push a damaging and unbalanced LCHF diet to people with cardiovascular problems when they are at their most vulnerable: a diet which is against the recommendations for heart disease of the BHF and NHS and indeed Cardiac Rehab. That is not support.

This is a BHF forum and posts should respect that, and not go against NHS advice for cardiovascular disease.

I will not post further on this thread - I have a life, not a fad diet.

I urge anyone on this site to go to the BHF site for nutritional advice and heart- healthy recipes - it is a fantastic resource, and completely trustworthy. Tastes good too!

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Prada47

I try to follow the traffic lights , i.e. if it has 2 Reds only once per week for a treat, and that came from the Diet Technician at Cardio rehab.

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Prada47

Question in the paper today,

Why give up on the Good Things in Life to live another couple of days in a Care Home !!!

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Lezzers

Can I remind everyone of the community guidelines:

You must not

Post anything that could be interpreted as self-publicity (including spamming – posting the same or similar message in many discussions), advertising (including pyramid selling and chain letters), selling or soliciting. If you’re discussing fundraising or events for us, feel free to add links where appropriate.

- Post anything unlawful – for example, sending or posting material that is indecent, racist or defamatory, harassing, threatening or abusive towards another community member. Please be aware that any user that posts anything of this nature may have their account restricted and will be unable to post on the community.

- Recommend any extreme lifestyle changes to other community members

It concerns me that they are a lot of vulnerable people that refer to this site for help & guidance. The tone of this thread is unnecessary, unhelpful & verging on abusive. Can I suggest that a bit more thought goes into what is being said & agree to disagree instead of keep trying to prove you're right!

Concerned, your diet works for you, which is brilliant. However, it does go against the NHS & BHF advice & you appear to promote it on almost every post you reply to. Perhaps, if you added comments to say that people should consult with their own medical team before changing their diets, which any responsible person would advocate anyway, then perhaps this would stop the constant bickering that is not helping the original poster in any way!

Thank you.

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