afib and sleep apnea

[Afibbingnewbie]

hi all., anyone know of a corolation between sleep apnea and afib ? If so which causes which ?

[bean_counter27]

Sleep apnoea is a risk factor for getting AF. Some quote increase in risk of 2 to 4 times of getting AF if you have sleep apnoea

[FraserB]

If so which causes which ?

That's an interesting question. Having sleep apnea more commonly contributes to the development of AF. But there is ongoing research that possible autonomic dysfunction of those with AF may influence the heart and especially breathing. Though this still does not directly cause sleep apnea but can contribute to it.

[secondtry]

Completely unscientific opinion but my experience suggests this order:

1. Anxiety 2. Apnoea 3. AF

[swimminglove]

All I can say is that when I first saw my cardiolgist and electro physiologist for Afib and then Atrial flutter he said three things will drastically improve my chances of maintaining my heart in sinus rhythm: be tested for sleep apnoea and then buy a cpap machine (he gave very high figures about the number of people with SA who also have AF), stop drinking and lose weight.

I followed his advice because I want to do anything I can to keep myself in rhythm:))

[depotdoug in reply to swimminglove]

Three real life things to do to help prevent AFIB. I agree! Treat sleep apnea w/CPAP use, loose weight quit drinking. Those helped me tremendously. Just re-started my CPAP Resmed Airsense 9/4/2024 I’ve felt experienced so so much easier breathing and lower BP too.

[Leaney]

Not sure if it was sleep apnoea as such but my husband used to snore for England. He had an ablation to help his afib and he hasn't snored since! The afib is good too

[Mcgandy]

SA a significant risk factor for AF. Even heavy snoring, esp if associated with episodes of paused breathing. These again correlate with heavy drinking and sleeping on back. Have seen this in much of the literature, and gels with my own experience. I do not have SA, apparently but do have to avoid the above, which has triggered AF in the past.

[CDreamer]

My own experience has been that sleep apnea caused nocturnal AF, O2 stats would drop, HR increase = AF. As soon as the SA was treated with CPAP, no nocturnal AF but still had episodes of AF during the day. Sleep apnea is a serious condition in itself. I would recommend anyone with suspicion of SA to ask for a sleep study.

If you want to avoid developing SA - learn to breath properly and use mouth tape at night. Excellent book called Breath - The Art of Breathing by James Nestor was a lived experiment of the consequences of how mouth breathing can ruin your health.

A few myth busters - not everyone who snores has SA, though many do. Not everyone with SA snores, but many do. Sleep apnea is caused by the soft palate at the back of the throat collapsing, closing the airway meaning you stop breathing. If your sleeping partner has SA what you will notice is very long pauses between breaths and then gasping for air, my ex-husband, a mouth breather, snored very loudly then all would go silent and he’d stop breathing for something like 90 seconds but insisted he was ok, until he fell asleep at the wheel and my sons had to remove his car keys, report him to the DVLA until he got treatment. Thankfully he did, regained his licence and now raves about how well he feels as he’s not tired all the time.

SA is notifiable to DVLA, as is AF.

[Sixtychick in reply to CDreamer]

I reported my PAF to the DVLA and they said if you don’t have distracting or disabling symptoms or your arrhythmia means you might not be able to safely stop or control your vehicle, you’re perfectly ok to drive. I had an ablation last year, so hopefully my AFib will stay away.

[Icenae]

i had af, 3 ablations, on my third pacemaker. Under Barts. It wasn't until we moved to Lincoln and I saw a new consultant who said he didnt know anyone with af who didnt have sleep apnoea. So now have a cpap machine. But

My sats still go down under 90 often at night. Just not a very good breather i suppose but I definitely dont wake up for loo trips so much

[babs1234 in reply to Icenae]

My oxygen levels drop as low as 83🤦‍♀️

[CDreamer in reply to babs1234]

Mine also but they don’t stay there and that’s the important bit. If you are measuring via a smart watch it can shift as you move during the night so I ignore the dips and just look at the average, on the advice of my EP. I tend to average 92-94 during the night on CPAP and 92-100 during the day when moving around.

[Responsable]

SA is not causing AF in any way, but it shows that the person is susceptible to arrhythmias and it is not impossible that it also has AF from time to time. Both these health disturbances are the consequence of disturbed automatics in the body, what is broad and insufficiently researched field - nowadays, and it will remain so in the near future.

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

The latest on Sleep Apnea.

Overweight.

So it seems that the Apnea - overweight caused AF.

cheri jOY. 75. (NZ)

[Afibbingnewbie in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

Not overweight, don’t drink , don’t smoke

[CDreamer in reply to Afibbingnewbie]

As is the experience of many people, it tends to be a bit of a myth that only people who are overweight have SA and AF, although if you are, you may be susceptible.

[solarjdo69]

I'm affirming what CDdreamer stated. I find that when I have sleep issues /snoring/apnea I definitely have more AFIB symptoms. I'm working on reducing weight. I've read that not only do we accumulate fat on the outside, but on the inside too such as around the throat. Once the fat is reduced on the inside, I am thinking most snoring and apnea issues will reduce or go away.

[CDreamer in reply to solarjdo69]

Although throat size can make SA worse, plenty of slim people have SA.

[solarjdo69 in reply to CDreamer]

I suppose that it is true, I've also read that the "tissue/muscle tone" of the throat matters too. Singing and other chanting of low tones, including using a derigidoo (Australian aboriginie instrument) have been shown to reduce or eliminate that IF you have most of the fat reduced.

From The National Library of Medicine:

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articl...

"Conclusion Regular didgeridoo playing is an effective treatment alternative well accepted by patients with moderate obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome."

[babs1234]

I have both. Not sure which caused which

[Afibbingnewbie in reply to babs1234]

Hi, have you had afib ablation to cure the af ?

[CDreamer in reply to Afibbingnewbie]

Unfortunately ablation doesn’t always long term for everyone.

[babs1234 in reply to Afibbingnewbie]

No but down for it

[moleman37]

I have both mild sleep apnea (per sleep study) and AFIB - don't know if one causes the other either.

After my Cardiologist suggested it, I acquired a CPAP because 70%+ of my Afib episodes begin while I'm sleeping. Machine definitely helps me sleep better and I highly recommend that. However, I still had Afib so next got on meds. EP first put me on calcium channel blockers (no effect), then recently added daily flecainide which seems to have helped some.

Fortunately, weight hasn't been an issue for me as I've weighed about the same for the past 40 years and I believe more active than most my age group. Unfortunately, I'm not Afib free yet either. My Afib issue arose after I retired from stressful Director role at Megacorp, so not sure if current stress/anxiety levels had anything to do with it for me. I have also ruled out alcohol as a trigger for me. The only thing I'm sure of after reading many of these posts, it seems everyone is different!

[Efka]

Anyone have any suggestions/tips/data on Central Sleep Apnoea?

Might have been a minor, certainly not noticed, thing prior to persistent afib but since persistent afib (post ICD operation) its every night. No snoring. No mouth breathing (apart from the first air gulp after the pause).

Not sure how much the vagus nerve is involved? Or maybe even the phrenic nerve?

Sorry all I have are questions