I have friends with atrial fibrillation, both of whom are thinking of having ablations, one NHS and one private. The one going private said that she had been quoted £8000 at her local Nuffield hospital. This alarmed me on several points. Even if this isn’t a misunderstanding I wouldn’t be happy to have an AF ablation at a private hospital - no ITU should something go wrong during the procedure and I doubt whether any of the local private hospitals have cath labs of the quality of the NHS ones. This is not a person who has seemed to research much about her condition so far but has suddenly decided that an ablation will cure her breathlessness. Maybe I’m wrong and she just doesn’t want to discuss the subject but I feel disappointment could be the outcome of her apparent ignorance.
My question is, should I pass on some useful but not downbeat information or just leave her to ‘get an ablation’? I did mention that mine had lasted only two years although (which I didn’t mention) it was a very thorough RF ablation because the EP didn’t want to do another one.
Also has anyone had a recent quote or paid for a private ablation who is willing to share the information?
Thanks
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Buffafly
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Hi Buffafly, with waiting lists so huge it’s not surprising people are thinking of going private. The price quoted by your friend sounds very low. A cryoablation at our local Nuffield is way beyond that at £20,000. The cath lab there is purpose built and high standard with EPs working across both private and NHS sectors. The 2 hospitals are within a minute of one another should anything go wrong.
The dilemma we’re facing is that the longer we wait the more likely the heart remoulds and the less likely a successful outcome. I got a quote for that reason and have even thought of drawing down equity release on our home to pay for it. But even if I did that the chances are I’ll need a second ablation. It’s a hard one to balance, but I think the choice is a very personal one. I hate that health care is becoming a two tier system in this country which is another factor in the equation.
I think your friend needs to explore the success rates at her local Nuffield compared to NHS equivalent and question the disparity in price with other areas (she might of course have downplayed the price). And she can find out what facilities are available should anything go wrong.
Sometimes ablations are successful or they wouldn’t be offering them on the NHS and there wouldn’t be a massive waiting list. But as we all know there is no quick fix cure, and hopefully with some careful discussion and info from you (the sort I’ve found so invaluable on this forum) she will be able to make a more informed choice. She’s lucky to have you there.
Hi, that’s reassuring - about the hospital I mean, not the cost. I will have to take a deep breath before passing the info on. I told her £15000 + as the last figure I had and she confidently told me £8000 which I’m confident was a misunderstanding or mishear. Which is your local Nuffield hospital? I have a feeling it will be in the ‘right’ area. One thing I’ve learned about waiting lists is that the time quoted is for the person who doesn’t urgently need the operation. I know we hear a lot about people needing hip replacements who are waiting in agony and hardly able to move around the house but I suspect there is more to that kind of story. I had my cataract op a whole year sooner than quoted, for good reason, and the same sort of thing has happened quite frequently and opting to go on a cancellation list improves your chances considerably.
As you say there is also the possibility of needing a ‘touch up’, or a flutter ablation later if the AF ablation induces flutter.
Hopefully when my friend gets as far as consulting an EP the downsides will be mentioned - it’s not like having your appendix or gallbladder out in the sense of ‘one and done’.
May depend where you are but waiting lists on the NHS are very real with 1-2 year waits for people who are in chronic pain and as far as AF ablations go it is taking 6 months to see an cardiologist with a further 1 year on the waiting list ..
Ablation for AF, as Bob frequently points out, is an elective procedure ie for QOL not threat to life. On the rare occasions when it’s necessary due to deteriorating heart condition or dangerous effects (which is why I was offered mine) things move quicker. And if your condition is exacerbated by lifestyle I suspect they go slower…..
My local hospital is Exeter, and £18000 was quoted at the Nuffield for the heat energy ablation (can’t remember it’s name!) - so I guess your friend dropped a zero - easily done with a bit of wishful thinking!
RF ablation - I think that would the right hospital, thanks. I suspected the quote might be 18 not 8, with a hearing difficulty and wishful thinking it would be easy to make a mistake! Now I have to decide whether to pass on the bad news……
In 2017, my EP quoted £16,000+. He said that more than half of that was the cost of what was "left on the floor" ie very expensive drugs and equipment. £8K sounds very low to me...
I agree that it is a low price but disagree about the standard of equipment and the expertise of the doctor as the same EP treated me on both the NHS and privately.
I would question your friend and ask if they had done all the diligent research, asked who was doing the ablation, their experience and researched their training and asked how many ablations they carried out each year. Ask about the equipment and what might happen in an emergency. Maybe mention that is something with your experience you could help her with? I would also ask her to question the cost - I would expect it to be in the region of £20,000. Either the hospital misquoted or your friend misheard. I think an offer of help to research and suggest is all you can do in the circumstances.
FYI - both my privately paid for ablations were carried out in an NHS hospital - it’s how they pay the bills. If at a Nuffield or BUPA hospital - I would have no concerns as both are have excellent equipment and good emergency procedures.
Another experience of private procedure which I had to have, waited more than 6 months for when NHS were aware if I had to wait any longer, it coudln’t be done was a revision of my pacemaker and as you probably remember, any sedation is very high risk for me because of Myasthenia. The procedure took longer than expected and the care taken to ensure the meds I needed to take and the symptoms I might have was excellent, far more diligent than understaffed NHS hospital. I did start with symptoms and was rushed to resus with 3 emergency doctors and 3 nurses around my trolley immediately as they were not sure if I had a stroke or it was my symptoms. They knew exactly what to do. The EP, the Physiologist and one other doctor all worked in the NHS hospital next door and one nurse was about to switch from the private hospital to their NHS department. I overheard a conversation between 2 of the staff and the comments were something like ‘you will not have the time to nurse as thoroughly as you do here, there will be a lot more action and you will have little time to think’. I think that said it all.
This may sound daft but could there be some confusion between a cardioversion and an ablation?
hi, that price does not seem correct unfortunately, I’d expect around £20k. The most important thing is that she chooses an EP with experience and a good track record. There are lots across the country and some really excellent like prof Richard schilling. When I was considering mini maze vs a second ablation I consulted with him. If she is paying anyway she should seek out the best.
I had a mini maze (surgical ablation) at Harley Street in London and there is an ICU there they are specialist in cardiac procedures. My local private hospital is next to the NHS one too with the same consultants working there so if anything did go wrong you’d quickly be in the right place. To be honest it’s highly unlikely after a catheter ablation anything of that scale would go wrong.
Private hospital quotes and final price often have very little in common IMHE. 8k might be what the EP charges. It's usually the private hospital's profit that most of the costs can be attributed to.
Heaven forbid they have to call 999 in the event of an emergency, that could be several additional line items on the invoice: Activation of emergency phone £500.
In September 2017, I was charged around £11,000 for an ablation at Papworth so I would expect the price to be well north of £15,000 today or more. Budget for £20,000 just in case.
My quote from 6 years ago was for £9,000 at a spire hospital - it was close to a University teaching hospital where I would be transferred if anything untoward happened where my cardiologist actually worked so I would still be under his care in the NHS hospital if need be.
A private hospital does not have an A&E department. There was a controvesy years ago when a person having treatment in a private hospital - I believe for Cancer had bad side effects and was refused entry to an NHS hospital - or refused an ambulance for transfer so I think the NHS has been forced to change its policy since then - correct me if I am wrong - I may not have the details right but something along those lines happened and either policy had to be updated or re-iterated. I am not sure what happened to the poor person involved.
I had my cryo ablation done at the BMI private hospital in the grounds of our NHS hospital, as they were trying to get those of us who had been waiting a long time seen to.The cath lab was very well equipped and a great team, apparently most of the surgeons also work in the NHS in many private hospitals.
It has been successful ( although I had 2 episodes few days after reducing flecanide and put on retouch list as precaution. Nothing since) and I had no problems after the procedure.
I don't know about ITU or the cost,sorry.
Hope your friend finds out as much info as she can!
I share everyones concern re price which is far too low and wonder about Flapjacks comment. Getting proper quotes maybe difficult because the add ons such as hospital hotel costs (per night can be eye wateringly high) along with any drugs etc . I would have expected at least £20 k these days knowing what it cost five years ago.
As far as dealing with your friend goes, best keep out of it in my view. You have expressed concern and if they don't want to discuss it with you it is their loss. Just be there if the used food hits the air displacer and never say I told you.
Usually same/similar facilities/tech whether NHS or private. (PFA is more costly tech than RF to buy and operate/use.) But private you will get to consult with the same EP every time and quickly and it will be them who do the ablation if that's your choice (and why wouldn't it be - continuity of care is vital to my eyes at least).
Contrast with £12K at Bordeaux (although obviously other out of pocket expenses too of a grand+ and language barrier with nurses can be very 'challenging'!) (Also if you test positive for covid or have an embolism when they do a CT pre-check for that then one is coming home again losing one's travelling and accommodation costs....) Top lab with PFA equipment and 2 EPs (Jais and Hocini) who are right up there amongst the best in world - Jais has been involved with Farapulse with their PFA tech right from the start). Fee breaks down roughly to 1/2 to the hospital (including 2 overnight stays - each +al overnight stay will be around £2500) and 1/2 to the consultants involved with this possibly including the time cost for the EP lab/equipment as EPs here typically get £1600-2000 for performing the ablation). I've been to Bordeaux twice myself - once in 2018 and again early 2023. My main worry over there is if I have complications that require ICU treatment that could really cost me - your GHIC won't cover you for anything connected with planned treatment abroad. At least if private here in the UK if there are complications one simply gets shunted over to the NHS who in my UK EP's words invariably "mop everything up' at no extra cost. Anyone visiting the UK from overseas needing any such 'mopping up' would have to pay.
Hi I had a private ablation at Brompton 3/2022. Cost around £14,000 without overnight stay. Also consider follow up. Any private follow up, consultation etc, will be more cost, plus any travel, overnight stays for patient and partner etc.
Wow! All you folks talking about the costs to go private. I'd never be able to find that sort of money and so have had no choice but to wait. My ablation was in March and after being told I'd be sent a follow up app in anout 3 months, said appointment came yesterday......March 2024!!! Didn't expect it to be that far ahead so, if I'm spared as my mum used to say, I'll get my check up next year. Definitely no chance of any private consultation for me.Stay well eryone
Think of it this way, it’s one less person on the waiting list, although I don’t think enough people can afford private treatment to make much of a difference 😕
That’s exactly what my nhs consultant said when I was feeling bad about seeking private care for my up coming hip surgery. It felt like skipping the queue and he said you’d be helping my queue and helping others get surgery quicker.
My heart ablation was a bit different as it simply isn’t offered on the nhs where I live
My first was a cryo. It lasted six months I was put on amiodarone and spent most of those months curled up in a ball so sick from the medicine and I was told cryo- was a one shot deal. I have a feeling it’s just something for them to try that might be a little bit gentler but not really. My RF only lasted a year and a half but that’s me. We are all different but just knowing it’s a one shot deal, etc. and the team did not seem surprised to see me back would make me skip cryo-again that’s me. My first two surgeries here in the state were $250,000 each and that was just for the hospital. Now I can guarantee you that my insurance did not pay them that much which is why many hospitals do not like my insurance. It is a retirement insurance and they do negotiate and in fact, doctors, we are allowed to use must agree to the prices I have no idea what my doctor charged. Suddenly you will see names you never heard of and people who must just walk in and look at you when you’re sleeping and send a bill. Healthcare is shameful. Now I like the old days where you went to your old general doctor and it cost five dollars. The doctor that took care of me and delivered my daughter charged that I think the hospital stay in him cost about $300 back then lol of course that was in the dinosaur days.
I can look up many things to see what they were charged, but not the true amounts that ends up being paid.
best of luck. I don’t think it matters where we are. We are not getting what we deserve. I have no problem with the healthcare I get, but I have had to push and find doctors because many of them just write us off at a certain age.
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