Bisoprolol

[Tellingfibs]

Hi everyone. I have been on Bisoprolol for 5 years now, but the dose was increased to 10 mgs earlier this year. I know many of you are on a a lower dose of Bisoprolol, but I wonder if any of you have heard that it can cause cramp ? I have just read that it can take a couple of years for the cramp to manifest itself and so people don’t link the two.I’m sure it’s more likely to be something less mysterious, but I thought I’d ask you. Thanks in advance.

[nakuru8]

Been on bisoprolol fir 3 years. Now take 2.5mg a day. Do have occasional cramp like last night. Quite painful.

[Tellingfibs in reply to nakuru8]

Thanks for replying. I think some of us are just a bit more ‘crampy’ than others ! I will see if it continues - I don’t want to lose too much sleep.

[heartmatters1]

Dehydration can cause cramps - are you upping your water intake. Some medications & heat can cause dehydration

[Tellingfibs in reply to heartmatters1]

Thanks for responding. I am fortunate that I have a nice cool house and don’t have to be out in the heat. However, after your response, I did wonder if perhaps I don’t drink enough. I’m afraid my main source of liquid is about 5 mugs of decaf tea and a glass of alcohol free wine. Probably not enough….. and I might look at taking some supplements - once I’ve checked with the INR team.

[heartmatters1 in reply to Tellingfibs]

More water required I think. I know I don’t drink enough myself & do wake up with headaches occasionally if I don’t.

[Tellingfibs in reply to heartmatters1]

Good advice ! 👍

[Ppiman in reply to Tellingfibs]

Whilst much can be said of the central importance of water to life, this is more for its zero-calorie content than its transformative medical powers.

To my knowledge, only very elderly folk might lose the natural signifiers of needing a drink, i.e. feeling thirsty. The body is extremely well sorted to ensure its liquid balance is maintained through the central process of homeostasis. The modern dehydration myth is one of the most pervasive and successful marketing ploys of modern times. The sale of water is making billions in profit and polluting the earth with plastic like never before.

blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2012/03/...

Steve

[Tellingfibs in reply to Ppiman]

Yes Steve, they’re a crafty lot ! I rarely buy bottled water and will only have tap water in a restaurant, but I probably don’t drink enough of it, unless it’s had a tea bag soaked in it 🙄. ‘They’ say, if it’s not water, it will have dehydrating properties. Ah well, perhaps a little if everything is the way to go….

[Ppiman in reply to Tellingfibs]

They would say that. The body knows no difference between anything containing water, much of which comes to us in our food. Quite a bit these days also comes in a small bottle labelled "Schweppes". I have never had to buy so many bottles of that to dilute the Chase GB gin ever in my life before. It's an utter scandal but also a delight that the G&T season is so very extended this year and it's not even August yet. Goodness. I blame the government.

My wife is very much on your side, though (well we both are). We make up our own bio-degradable teabags using simply lovely Northumbrian blend loose tea from Ringtons and never make it in a mug, only a teapot. In fact, I'll have one now!

Steve

[Tellingfibs in reply to Ppiman]

That all sounds very civilised Steve - especially the bit about gin ! 😄

[Hidden in reply to Ppiman]

You are a man after my own heart, Steve - on both the G & T and the 'tea made in a teapot' fronts! ❤️

I'm with you on the water front too. My dad is fond of quoting W C Fields about what fish do in water 😱. And the selling of water in plastic bottles is a scourge on the Earth and something really needs to be done about it.

[Ppiman in reply to Hidden]

Oh Helen - it was lovely to read that about your dad. Good chap. He's brought up his daughter properly.

I wonder if it will ever be done before some kind of disaster strikes. Mind you, I was bird watching at three local reservoirs earlier and the water levels looked pretty perilous to me - plastic rubbish all around the banks of one of them, too. Ugh.

Steve

[Hidden]

Sorry, but with a name like that, it’s difficult to believe anything you say 😂 but you are taking a hefty dose of a medication which has a reputation for slowing people down, causing breathlessness and general tiredness so I guess it possible that it might be a contributory factor. The best thing would be to speak to your pharmacist as they have access to information which should be helpful……

[Tellingfibs in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I thought it was a fun name when I put it down, but after it was too late to change it, I realised it might make someone wonder if I was real 😄. I will speak to my INR team and see what they think about my cramp and Bisoprolol. The medication certainly slows me down, but as I believe my Afib kicks off when I’m stressed, the Bisoprolol certainly works well keeping it under control. I’m just worried about what they will do when mg heart rate goes up again, as I am on the highest dose now. Anyway, for now, it’s just the cramps 👍

[TracyAdmin Partner]

Bisoprolol is a beta blocker and is used to slow an abnormally high heart

rate. Beta blockers protect the heart from the effects of adrenaline, slowing

down the activity of the heart muscle which also reduces blood pressure.

Bisoprolol is used to treat hypertension (high blood pressure), angina and in

some cases heart failure, due to the protective effects it has on the heart from

adrenaline stimulation.

Many medications can cause possible side effects,, although

not everyone experiences them.

Those known that can occur are:

Dizziness/Light-headedness or feeling faint, sickness or nausea, diarrhoea,

tiredness, hypotension (low blood pressure) or bradycardia (slow heart beat).

If you experience any new symptoms, it is important to discuss these with your Doctor.

[Tellingfibs in reply to TracyAdmin]

Thank you for reminding me of side effects Tracy. I am thinking I probably need to wait and see if the cramps are just a passing nuisance due to dehydration, using different shoes, driving more than usual - or just plain laziness !

[WhitstableWanderer]

I too began experiencing cramps and leg muscle pain after 4 years or so of taking Bisoprolol. After suspecting that it was the beta blocker causing this, I gradually weaned myself off the Bisop about a year ago and haven't suffered since. So there does appear to be some link, though this may not be the same for everyone. My cardiologist was relaxed about my decision and didn't express any concerns, but organised 24 hour holter monitor so he could check my condition, as we'd not actually had a physical review for two years.

[Staffsgirl]

This medication didn’t suit me... I took it for around 18 months. I had existing neuropathy and bisoprolol greatly aggravated it. Pain was unbearable at times. It was a relief to come off the bisoprolol. GP supported my decision.

[Bodydoctor12]

Hello Tellingfibs, yes, I’ve developed cramp - I’m on 7.5mg and I have only been taking it for about 2 months. I hadn’t connected the two and I’m glad to know the reason for it. I have experienced the cramping, quite dramatically at times. I do what I can to drink plenty of fluid but will endeavour to do it more regularly. Thanks for the heads up.

[Tellingfibs in reply to Bodydoctor12]

That’s the beauty of this forum isn’t it. There is almost always someone who can relate to your own experiences, and whilst we don’t like to think of someone else struggling, it is a personal comfort to discover someone who is, and with the same problem. It’s how we can support each other. 😊

[Sylviep7]

Are you taking a magnesium supplement? Cramps are often a sign of lack of magnesium. Also approx 2 litres of water is needed a day. I find Bisoprolol quite dehydrating and am only on 1.25mg.

[Tellingfibs in reply to Sylviep7]

I didn’t know that about Bisoprolol. I did read somewhere that some side effects are not linked with the drug because they don’t begin for a couple of years after being on the drug 🫤

[vajrahara in reply to Sylviep7]

Hi Sylviep7How much magnesium supplement do you take please? Do you take them as a result of medical advice? I have always found tablet supplements don’t seem to get past my gut effectively so I only use effervescent varieties or mouth sprays. I have been in high rate persistent AF between 12th Feb. this year and this Tuesday 26th July; not well controlled on the standard cocktail of medications. As a result of earlier posts on this forum about the value of Magnesium supplements on Sunday and Monday of this week I took an effervescent magnesium supplement and boy did I feel better in every way. On Tuesday I had my first cardio version and only needed one shot to go back into Normal Sinus Rhythm. The most beautiful design in the universe is Normal Sinus Rhythm after six months of high rate AF. Now I cannot make any claim for the value of magnesium and I am concerned that it might be contraindicated with our AF drugs but the facts are that I did feel so much better after taking it and would like to continue doing so. I understand that magnesium is effective in relation to ventricular ectopics which I had but I would like advice on how much we should take going forward, hopefully in Sinus Rhythm. I am a 90% vegan 10% vegetarian so my diet contains all the foods very high in magnesium but I seem to block the vitamins and minerals in food. I do feel my furosemide dehydrates me and I do have occasional cramps. Thank you in advance.

[Sylviep7 in reply to vajrahara]

I'm vegan...I take ionic magnesium (liquid) from Metabolics.com - I live in the UK. I can't advise you re dosage you need to check with a naturopath or someone qualified. I was taking magnesium tablets but I don't think I was absorbing them. You can also use Magnesium gel ( in addition to liquid) and massage that into areas where you get cramps, it's effective. A wholefood shop will sell that or online. Good luck.

[Sylviep7 in reply to vajrahara]

Re magnesium - this is an interesting article it talks about soil depletion and the fact that some drugs deplete magnesium absorption immh.org/article-source/201...

[vajrahara in reply to Sylviep7]

Sylviep7 Thank you so much for such a helpful couple of replies!! The article is very interesting and confirms a great many of our views as my partner and I have an allotment which we carefully soil test and despair about the quality of commercially available food. I feel confident about my way forward thank you xx 🐝🌳❤️

[stargazer52]

Hi I’ve had cramp with my higher dose of bisoprolol but also realised I was dehydrated. I now have a glass of water before bed and have a glass by my bed . It seems to be working.Btw hope you’re not 😂

[Tellingfibs in reply to stargazer52]

I already need the loo 2 or 3 times a night so a glass of water beforehand would probably mean no sleep at all ! I’d better top up in the day…. And no, I’m really not ! ☺️

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

HiMy Bisoprolol was upped to 5mg x twice a day but it still did not control my rapid, persistent heart.

I stronglt recommend that you see An interested heart specialist in your history.

CCB Diltiazem was the game changer. 2.5mg Bisoprolol was left but to take away from A.M CCB.

I saw another but senior heart specialist from Auckland. Who oked the new regime and he also was happy with indeed CONTROLLED my fast, persistent H/R.

He checked that I was on PRADAXA. He wasnt concerned about my reluctance not to take

my 10mg Avorastatin.

He had results of 4.2. and 1.5 tri..

He said that my thyroid results were abnormal. I get frustrated with Drs as they look at a higher - ouside normal level of Synthroid. I need to increase to keep at 2.0-3.0TSH.

I remind them that the elevated level is only temporary.

cheri JOY. 73. (NZ)

In 2019. a Ischaemic Stroke (Embolic) with AF. 4 days a carotid artery scan showed a shadow on my thyroid. 4 mths later the thyroid (papillarary cancer) removed along with 12 lymph nodes. What a 2019-2018 nightmare but I was glad that the hospital discovered why my heart went into AF mode.

[Afibflipper]

I’ve been on Bisoprolol for many years, I have not experienced cramps - I’ve been on many doses of it the longest period was at 12.5 but no issues

[Tellingfibs in reply to Afibflipper]

Oh gosh - I didn’t know they dosed Bisoprolol over 10 mgs ! I’m very glad of it though as it does lower my heart rate when it decides to speed up. After 4 years on 2.5 mgs, in the last year it has been gradually increased to the 10 mgs. I was worried they couldn’t ‘up’ it any more. I do wish it didn’t drain my energy so much though. Still, we can’t have it all. Glad to hear you are not bothered by the cramps - perhaps the drugs aren’t the cause of mine after all.

[Afibflipper in reply to Tellingfibs]

A few patients are on 20mg - I went up to 17.5 but blood pressure dropped to muchHave you spoken to the GP? If it’s leg cramps or restless legs they may be able to find out what it is and treat it for you. Oh yes on higher dose 15mg etc I had no energy but, since I’ve had cardioversion and am back in NSR, low HR and low blood pressure and am also on Flecainide plus other stuff my energy levels are great, no longer tired like I always was, late to bed up early (and get insomnia) I feel great - hope they get you sorted out

[Tellingfibs in reply to Afibflipper]

Wow, so glad they sorted you out so well. I have been worrying about what the next step might be for me, which is a bit self-pitying because other than Afib that doesn’t bother me much, ( until heart rate goes high ) I am a healthy 70 year old. I just don’t have the energy to enthuse about things like I used to, and the grandchildren are disappointed when I don’t feel up to playing badminton with them ! I was always so active. It certainly sounds as though the Bisoprolol was the culprit when you had low energy. How fantastic that your get up and go has returned 👍.

[Afibflipper in reply to Tellingfibs]

Hope the medics can sort this for you, I also wonder - I started with AF 20 years ago, the last 3 years I found I was getting easily breathless and the pulse would rise just doing simple stuff, stairs got more difficult and always tired but during this I felt no palpitations. Then earlier this year boom the palpitations came, kept nearly passing out and continuously high pulse so I hadn’t realised my persistant AF was back - good luck to you getting sorted x

[Tellingfibs in reply to Afibflipper]

So has the Cardioversion sorted all the bad stuff for you ? Was it that that enabled you to come off Bisoprolol ? I was due a Cardioversion earlier this year as I had had Afib more or less constantly for 3 months, but my GP raised the dose of Bisoprolol and I immediately went back into NSR - so no Cardioversion !

[Afibflipper in reply to Tellingfibs]

If your in NSR they cannot cardiovert you - have to be in AF at the of the procedure.I was already on the Bisoprolol for many years and that had worked for a long time and had 2 previous ablations. When the AF was persistent it was 24/7 so had first CV that put me in NSR but failed after a few days, I was given an anti arrhythmic drug and was still on that plus 15mg Bisoprolol when had 2nd CV then reduced to & still on 10mg and still in NSR

[Tellingfibs in reply to Afibflipper]

Ah, so you are still on Bisoprolol - it is good for lowering heart rate isn’t it. I got the impression you were off it. It’s just good to find anything that works and gives us back a reasonable life where we can enjoy normal things. As soon as I go into Afib my mood dips considerably, and even if I feel ok otherwise, if I use my Kardia to check, I will find I am in Afib. The worst symptom is high heart rate ( and for me, not very high actually ) and it is when this has happened my Bisoprolol has been increased - not because of the actual arrhythmia. The cardiologist made a note of my comment about mood, so perhaps it’s an Afib thing. Perhaps others on this forum experience the same.

[Afibflipper in reply to Tellingfibs]

Mood probably due to you’re usually fit and active so capabilities dip therefore mood too. We take for granted feeling ok until we don’t I think

[WhitstableWanderer]

Hi, I was prescribed Bisoprolol at 5mg twice daily back in July 2017, following 'heart failure', though this may have been myocarditis - the medics were really unsure what had happened. As a by product, I was also diagnosed with AF, though I was fortunate enough to never suffer 'attacks' of AF as others describe their situation. To be honest, the various meds that I was given (Eplerenone, Candesartan, Atorvastatin, Rivaroxaban and Bisoprolol) all seemed to make me feel worse but I carried on taking them until early 2021, when I decided to see if I could wean myself off most of them. I still take the anticoagulant Rivaroxaban daily to help reduce the stroke risk that is inherent with AF. I am generally fit and active but suffered from unexpected joint pain, muscle pain (particularly in my legs) and wild nightmares - really psychedelic dreams the like of which I'd never experienced. Also some memory loss - things that I knew that I knew just couldn't be dredged up for the General Knowledge crosswords! Research suggested that the Bisop could be the culprit so I gradually titrated my intake down, to 5mg a day, then 2.5mg, until I stopped taking it altogether. I felt brighter, the muscle pains reduced (statins also seem to generate these), the nightmares stopped immediately and my memory was measurable improved. I never became aware of any negative symptoms from reducing my pill intake. I am back to 'normal'! I did advise my Cardio Consultant of this on a phone consultation, he wasn't overly concerned but asked me to have a 48 hour Holter monitor so he could see that I was OK . I've not heard any more and continue to feel absolutely fine. I've have aided myself by eating more healthily, losing some weight, reducing alcohol and caffeine input and exercising (golf) two or three times a week. Maybe I am lucky. Anyway, good luck with your journey, I hope that you are able to benefit from my experience. But obviously, what works for me may not work for you or others, so take advice and take it steady if you do decide to reduce or stop your meds.