Hi again just a quick question...but with all this going on at the moment for me and everyone else on here.. is there ever any possibility of a long enough happy and normal as can be future for us, or is it all inevitable that quality of life will deteriorate badly enough to make life just bearable ...sorry for the negative question but I should have probably asked this ages ago...
Positive outcomes for the future - Atrial Fibrillati...
Positive outcomes for the future
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Andyb7612
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BobDVolunteer
Old age stinks but what is the alternative? A friend once told me that if he had realised old age was this bad he would have been more adventurous when younger. I told him I was which is why I am in the state I am now.
Some people suffer constant pain. some minor heart irregularities, some go deaf or blind but life ends when it is ready.
Make the most of what you have. Enjoy every day as if it were your last because one day you will be right.
Hi Andy, at the moment we all have no idea. To be honest it could go either way. Once P has the land he wants it could all stop and life go back to normal. The best thing to do is try to think positively. Worrying will make you ill. Try not to keep watching the news on TV if it distresses you too much. Keep to channels like BBC1 or ITV1 who give a shortish summary.
Jean
Jean I have lived with the four minute warning all my life and we are still here. Not sure that is what Andy was asking though. More about our conditions surely.
Sorry I can't have made the post to clear lol...I was on about our conditions not the war in Ukraine...
Oh bless you Andy, I'm sorry. What I was talking about has I'm afraid, taken over my life.
At one time I was feeling fed up with the life PAF forced me to live. I felt tired most of the time and was sleeping afternoons. I came on to this forum to say how I felt. I couldn't maintain the garden, a few digs with a trowel and exhaustion swept over me. I had two unsuccessful ablations and was told I wouldn't be offered any more. Well my EP must have forgotten about that because one Friday, out of the blue I had a telephone call to go the following Wednesday for a 3rd ablation. Immediately after it I felt better, though had a few hiccups. It was also discovered that I had an underactive thyroid. Taking tablets to rectify that and changing my diet to a more plant based and healthy one gave me my life back.
Now, although I'm in permanent AF, my heart rate stays between 60 to 90 and I can live a normal life again. Once more I can walk the hilly coastal footpaths where I live.
Never give up hope, as Bob has said there are far worse health problems we could have.
Best wishes
Jean
Hi Jean thanks for the reply and that is a positive story in the end...im glad you are feeling much better and now enjoying life again..long may that continue.... thanks again..
far worse health problems we could have? what, like cancer? i'm at the point where i am so tired of living with heart flutters that i sometimes wish i would just die. i have other health problems, but i can live with those. but the constant heart flutters? it's like torture. i'm so sick of it. i seriously would rather die some days. so i'm not sure how you define "worse." worse meaning cancer? or worse meaning your condition makes you want to die.
DaniAtrial Flutter is very easy to treat with ablation 90-95% success rate.
Is this something you have been offered ?
I have both Fib and Flutter mainly controlled very well by flecanide and a small dose of beta blocker but also on list for ablation if it gets worse.
It's hard to ignore the episodes, especially at night I find.
Sorry to read how low you feel,I really would try to get some treatment options investigated.( If you haven't already)
Many people find distraction techniques such as mindfulness,breathing techniques, meditation can help enormously.
Best wishes
Have you tried taking magnesium? Vitamin C? Both help to calm the heart and help tone down palpitations. I take both and it helps me a lot. But as always everyone is different. I wish Drs would pay more attention to testing for nutrients in the body. Some do but they all should. Makes a big difference sometimes.Take care and be safe.
Hi there yes i have taken magnesium and vitamin c but t hasn't helped so far but thanks for the input...
sorry to hear that. Don't give up!
Hi Dani
I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling down through having heart flutters.
I've said this before on this forum, when I was aged about 17, I once saw a man who had half of his face missing, it made me go dizzy with shock. Most of us with heart arrhythmias still look fairly normal.
One day about a year or so ago I was full of self pity after having two small skin cancers removed on my body and having stitches. As we drove past a bench I saw a young man sat there with the lower parts of both legs missing from the knee down he had what looked like running blades there. My self pity stopped right there and I felt ashamed of myself.
No it's not just cancer that can strike people, having worked in a nursing home I can tell you it's also things like Parkinsons, Motor Neurone, lung problems etc. I also rate blindness and losing limbs etc. as worse than having heart arrhythmias.
I know that arrhythmias are hateful and scary, but after having three ablations over my 17 years of AF I can now lead a fairly normal life. Never give up hope of being better. Have you changed your diet to a more healthy one and lost weight if needing to. I swear that losing a stone in weight has helped me.
Jean
Hi JeanJust for reading into your comment that u can walk the hilly coastal path again, what was the 'secret' as I'm trying to work it out.
Reducing PRADAXA helped a little from 150mg to 110mg tice a day.
Then I have just had a TVT Surgical Mesg removal and I had to stop PRADAXA 6 days .. whow I reckon it is PRADAXA. (3 days prior and 3 days after operation.)
I guess my pointed ? is .."Is it culprit PRADAXA?"
Then I would change to something else. PRADAXA does give me a hard rash.
Oh dear I'm trying to sort out 'hospital constipation". I must keep daily or at worse just miss one day or else????!!!!
Hope someone can help.
By the way removal of Johnson's & Johnson's TVT horrid surgical mesh has predominantly been taken out. Was successful and no more damage can be caused by this material. Mine was twisted and moved. Put in in 2003.
Cheri
Hi Jaz, it would be best if you put your post on the forum as one of your own. Just copy and post as a new one and I and others will answer there. This is Andy's post.
Jean
Oh dear Andy, I fear that you are getting this AF thing all out of proportion . I notice from your previous posts that you are finding your anxiety levels high since your diagnosis.Really this need not affect your quality of life significantly although I accept that we all carry our burdens differently.
I've had AF since the age of 48 and I'm now 77. Certainly at the beginning it was all I thought about and had my fingers permanently clamped to my wrist feeling my pulse !
It eventually became obvious to me that I had a life to live ( plus 2 young children to bring up ) .AF was in my life but it was not going to be my life.
As a family we carried on as before, although admittedly it was always at the back of my mind! We enjoyed holidays all over the world and had and still have a good social life.
There are treatments such as cardioversions and ablation which may help you and need to be discussed with your cardiologist. Sometimes a betablocker which suits you is all that is needed.
Please don't despair. AF is not the end of the world although it may feel like it at the beginning. I do hope that CBT you have mentioned will prove useful.
Best wishes
J
Thank-you j ...yes it is all I think about as I seem to get it every other day at the moment I am.always waiting for it to start and panicking when it does and timing the episode along the way...im starting anti depressants and have started cbt so am hoping it helps thanks again...
I'm wondering if it would help if you knew more about AF? Perhaps reading up all the literature available on the AF Association website.
Hi Andyb7612, I suffer like you and when my afib kicks off my heart rate rockets and I know I am in it for the long haul, usually 36 or 48 hours it's awful. Be careful though with anti depressants my EP (top Professor) wanted me off them as they all can affect heart arrhythmias in a negative way. I stopped citalopram after many years and I struggle with anxiety so having CBT but not going down the meds route again unless essential
Hi there yes I have had bad side effects on the anti depressants so gp changed then and still getting same symptoms so have decided just to stick with the cbt training instead ...im sorry to hear your episodes are that bad ...do you get them often or just at random?
Luckily about 2 episodes every 6 months at the mo (fingers crossed) although my EP says afib is like a 'jack in the box' the more it comes out the more it wants to, so I expect in the long term ig will get worse. The last 2 episodes have been after a stomach upset and my EP said that could be down to dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalance. I am controlled on sotalol 40mg twice daily and apixaban. Not gone down the ablation route as yet as my EP doesn't think it's the right time but I anticipate it will be required one day.
I dread an episode, learned how to manage it without going to A & E but still very debilitating
Hi Andy, I have to say I wasn’t sure if you were referring to AF or something else so thanks for the clarification. I see you are fairly new to the forum and also relatively young so it’s very understandable that you are finding things difficult at the moment. Almost all of us experienced bucket loads of gloom and doom once diagnosed but although we all have different experiences, in time the vast majority find ways of managing their condition and go on to lead long and relatively normal lives. Why should you be any different 😉
To try and help you get things into perspective, there are around 1.3 million folk in the UK who have been diagnosed with AF and probably another 300k who have AF but don’t know it. At the moment, this forum has less than 25,000 members from around the world and bear in mind that generally forums attract folk with problems. This suggests that there may be around 1,275,000 in the UK who are doing reasonably well!
Andyb7612 in reply to
Hi flapjack thankyou again for your reply...the one thing i have learned quickly is that there is some really nice and kind hearted people on this forum who are kind enough to offer there words of experience and wisdom ...joining this forum is one decision i have made correctly..
Hi Andy.
I understand where your at - I'm going through a little bit of the same at the moment.
"is there ever any possibility of a long enough happy and normal as can be future for us, or is it all inevitable that quality of life will deteriorate badly enough to make life just bearable"
Of course life will be bearable again. When you wake up in the morning just say to yourself 'for the next 10 minutes I'm going to be happy and positive'. Build it up a minute a day and do it. When you wake up in the morning be positive - make your mind up to do that now. Go for a walk or call a friend - whatever it takes.
Afib won't stop you from being happy again. It's a pain I know. As for world events there's nothing we can do - it's not our fault. Nothing we can do. We can take control our mental attuide though. Just think how good you'll feel about yourself - your self esteem will increase ten fold. Of course your life will be bearable again - that's a Paul's promise.
I just know you can beat this. If you want to chat to someone who will listen call 116 123 (samairtans). However I hope you wake up in the morning and say for the first 10 - 15 minutes of my day I'm GOING to be positive and happy. Start your day like that and it may carry on.
You'll do it - I just know. Don't let afib beat you - read Jean's comment above and Jalia's comment,
Loads of best,
Paul
Hi Paul again thanks so much for the positive support I hope I can follow your advice and give it my best shot...all the best
Hi Andy - you can do this starting right now. When you wake up in the morning be positive - start your day like this. Make your mind up now to do it - even if it's just for 10 minutes. Start your day like this - make your mind up to do it. Forget about afib and news - just go positive for the first 10 minutes of your morning.
You can do this - I know you can and you will. Small steps but they will help with your afib.
I want to hear how you get on in the morning being really postive when you wake up.
All best,
Paul
Years ago Paul, my wife used to say that my mantra was "Its a lovely day lets go and upset somebody". Well they say attack is the best form of defence. lol
It must be tough having AF every other day - the best thing that could happen to you other than a totally successful ablation is permanent AF because then you wouldn’t need to worry about when it would happen! And it is supposed to be much easier to cope with. All I can say is I’m 77 and have some serious troubles but AF isn’t one of them. It is very irritating to say this but a positive attitude goes a long way. I have to admit that my positive attitude took some time to develop but I got there and you will too 🤗
Agree, my "other" problems create much more grief, constant pain isn't nice amongst other things. Some people seem to be able to handle what is thrown at them, at the moment I'm angry and mean, AND know it. From right now I'm going to improve my attitude!!!
I have to say that some of my attitude has been affected by witnessing or experiencing other kinds of suffering. People who have previously been super fit and well until AF hit find it very hard to cope with the effects and random nature of AF and also have a sense of injustice which doesn’t help ☺️
Andy - let's be totally clear here. I am not a doctor or trained in anyway as a medic. I can't give you advice on what you should do or not do. I'm going to PM you with my contact number - if you feel on downer then hit me up. I will just listen but sometimes it helps to talk to a stranger. All I'll do listen - no medicial advice will be offered. You can withhold your number or I'll ring you back. I promise no details will passed on to anyone.You sound on a right downer - I understand this. Offers there if you wish.
Take care my friend.
Paul
How kind and decent of you Paul.
Thanks Julia - sometimes it's helps to talk to someone who's going through exacty the same thing as you. They understand it and can relate to it. You can't help to much but can know were they are coming from. @Andy call me in the morning if you wish - I'm there to listen and will most likely understand everything you are going though.
Paul
Hey Paul thanks for that , that is really kind I will take you up on that offer at some point soon if that is ok
No worries Andy. You enjoy your day and weekend. You will find people on this forum very friendly - shoot away if you have further questions.
Best,
Paul
G'day Andy,
My reply has the same take on your question as Jean Jeannie took. So, I am gonna answer it in a similar vein. The international scene in eastern Europe is up for grabs. I mean how do you deal with a high school bully ? How do you deal with a political machine which is led by a total screwball ? The best hope is that the screwball is eliminated by one of his military chiefs or some 'adviser' very close to him. The West isn't going to do anything, particularly Europe, Europe is too dependant on the screwball supplying them with winter fuel. I rather suspect the wild card is Israel. The problem is all this news as presented by the media is not very positive, all very dramatic and not in the least objective except as presented by the brave men and women war correspondents who are close to the 'action' and who are interviewing the poor civilians.
I can well understand, depending on our individual and/or collective take on things that these overseas events can be the cause of worry and stress which do absolutely nothing for the AF, or indeed perhaps other medical conditions we are saddled with.
For me, now, my paroxysmal AF is not a big burden as it is for many. I was diagnosed at 65, I am now 77 and I still work part time, driving buses down here at the pointy end of Cornwall. But that takes me into the world of - almost unrelenting shoulder pain (both shoulders) and will most likely, bring me to the end of my bus driving. Why am I still bus driving at 77, well why not .... money is always useful, helps me stimulate the local economy, but its also a social thing with my work buddies and some of my regular passengers particularly the elderly ones with a whacko jacko sense of humour, and then again its big toys for big boys. Sure the modern buses are soooooo automated these days exxcept for steering and this comes back to shoulders. The left shoulder has a damaged rotator cuff which is more or less just age related. The right has significant arthritis in the AC joint and rotator cuff problems ( I fell off a roof over 20 years ago - as you do - which is the underlying cause of the arthritis) and here is the real source of pain. Yep, its there all day but worse at night and I hardly get through a night without waking up in pain. That results in my getting up. I am also a bit concerned at scoffing so much CoCodomol 30/500, 4 tablets a day regularly, 6 a day when pain is more intense. Changes in weather make pain even worse. High humidity and low barometric pressure bring on the pain, low humidity and high barometric pressure tend to make me pain free. Sure, I have physio exercises to do and now am waiting for the call for a guided cortisone injection into the right AC joint. This will mean reducing my Warfarin a tad to lower my INR to minimise the prospect of an internal bleed.
Then I consider my brother in law ( 5 years younger than me) with vascular dementia and my poor sister who is caring for him at home. I consider the deaths of cricketing greats Rod Marsh and Shane Warne .... Warnie hits home a bit more as I lived in Melbourne years ago in the next door suburb to him where he grew up. Only 52. Oddly enough thats where my journey to the world of guts and digestive problems started which were in later years to manifest themselves in my world of AF.
So there we are Andy. Perhaps a different take on your question - more a personal issue thing and yep, I reckon I'm saddled with these two major health issues for years to come, and the pain issue will not go away as long as I draw breath. The AF is well controlled for now - but this bloody AF thing is such an untrustworthy demon that I am ready for it to manifest itself differently at any time - or the underlying gut/digestive issues too for that matter.
I think philosophically speaking, our lives are already written, its all in our gene pool good, bad or indifferent. No reason not to enjoy our remaining years, what is relevant is that we adjust our thinking to expect no more out of life than our limitations impose. Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed.
So, I wish you well, and you will be well ....... may the force be with you ...... always.
John
Hi Andy, sorry to hear you are so anxious, but I think we all go through this stage when we find out we have AF. You are definitely not alone, and as Paul says, a positive attitude is the one best thing you can cultivate. Best wishes and good luck from me too.
Hi. Oh dear Andyb7612If we can all get to the bottom of when, how, it was caused .. we might solve and try out the best way forward.
We learn as we go along.
I hav found PRADAXA deplemmishes my energy and I would like to ask if others have experienced the same side effects.
And I have a tiny hard rsh from it.
That's how we assist one another. By asking, passing on experience etc.
Be positive that things will improve but one has to 'work at it'.
Someone was doing a survey. I had no objection in assisting this fellow.
cheri
Hi! Our beloved AF is a consequence of two things. The first one is genetic predisposition, the second one is the way we live our lives. As for the genetic predisposition, I believe that about 70% of the population has it, and there is nothing to be done. As for the way of life, there is a lot that can be done to prevent arrhythmia, but none of us, including the MDs, has the adequate knowledge in time - in the course to prevent arrhythmia.
After the onset of the arrhythmia, there is NOTHING that can be done to "cure" it (sorry to be honest). Under curing, I understand that the arrhythmia can never come back, at all. For now, medicine has no treatment to cure it, no drugs, no invasive methods. Similar to breaking the handle of an ax Can you imagine the method that could bring the two parts of a handle together again...? There is no way!
my grandmother had a heart arrythmia, her mother did, and my mom did. but i seem to have it worse than my mom. thanks for the great genes, family.
I thought you were talking about Ukraine. I feel absolutely helpless about the plight of the Ukrainians.But you were only talking about life. I'm 76 and just try to get on with it. It doesn't seem long since I was planning to return to my home county, Lincolnshire. It didn't happen. For years I've been involved in the life of the Yorkshire village I live in. Now, apart from giving a talk to one local group about the servicemen, plus I servicewoman and one civilian commemorated in the village's war memorials, I only go out for medical or hospital appointments. Food is ordered online and delivered from the local supermarket.
In July 2020 I was going downstairs somewhat nonchalantly when I slipped halfway down. Result heavily bruised and cut right leg, fractured fibular towards the knee end, and damage or destruction of the peroneal nerve in my right leg. That nerve controls, via a muscle, the raising of the front of a foot when walking
My foot remains firmly on the floor or ground. To get the foot off the ground you have to lift the whole leg from the knee. If you forget you fall over, which I did several times before I had my first orthotic / splint / brace. That helped but I wasn't able to walk without absolute concentration.
A second orthotic was prescribed. It's carbon fibre and gives the front of the foot a springiness making it much easier to walk.
And then there's permanent AF, and chronic asthma, BPH, and lymphoedema in my lower legs.
But I don't let life get me down. I know I have to get rid of the 9 year old car which has a flat battery, as I can't now drive it, and it's blocking the garage. But hey ho it will be sorted one day.
I have 3 feline companions which keep me sane. I look forward to warmer weather as it will motivate me to sort my house out, and hopefully encourage me to have a daily walk. There are people in this country in a worse condition. And then there's Ukraine.
As long as you are aware of AF and what can be done to alleviate the condition you can live a normal life and be happy. I've had AF for more than 25 years. It can be managed. It's awful in the early days, but read up about it and get on with having a good life.
Take as much advice from here and elsewhere as you can as only then will you feel happy and less anxious about YOUR decision on how to combat it. Also it helped my anxiety early on and still today to use AF as a driver to change my lifestyle in many ways to hopefully avoid many common chronic and other issues coming up further down the road. There is probably a degree of genetic AF inheritance in us all and after that AF is the body's early warning system raising a red flag......so do take note.
With my AF in remission, these days I regularly think how my life has improved since diagnosis and am grateful I didn't continue in the old ways!
At root this is a question about the nature of the human condition. Challenges, especially to health, force us to go deeper in our understanding and experience of ourselves, of existence, of our self, who or what we are. Without them, most of us might live trivial self-centred lives, or worse. Challenges invite us to transcendence. In other words to freedom. All the great spiritual traditions explore this central human question, the only important question, and start from the reality of our suffering, what is it about, what does it mean, how can we get beyond it. And when we take these questions seriously, and fearlessly explore them, we find the answer, we get beyond them, though the answer cannot be explained, it can only be lived. This is the meaning of suffering.
We live in an age where we are in denial about the reality of the human condition, and do anything to distract ourselves. AF and other health challenges invite us to go beyond, to find our eternal self, beyond fear (and therefore also beyond desire). It can be known in this life.
Many of our friends on this site have said the above, have found their way to acceptance, in more personal terms.
Staying positive is one of the answers to it all, better for your mental health and better for you physically. My genetic father died from heart disease at 74, and a genetic brother similarly, I am now 73 and had Afib for many years, but beta blockers, anticoagulant , and ablation have helped. I also believe magnesium to be a good help, on the recommendation of a nutritionist .I wake each morning to my husband singing a Frank Sinatra song We Made It Through the Night, ( by the way my husband has cancer ) . So start the day with positivity.
Hi Andy, I have had a positive outcome with mine. It made me look more closely at what I was putting in my body (foods). I see functional and naturopathic doctors now and take a lot of supplements. I eat pretty clean and keep my weight down. I believe this is the key for me. The only episodes I have now are if I have one too many cocktails, which is maybe once a year. I discovered that if I drink alkaline water after alcohol causing problems, it calms down. You live and learn what works for you body. I do think that if you lead an unhealthy life, things won't get better for us. We have to make the change even though it can be hard.
I am hopeful that you will get this taken care of without fear. The worst part of my after effects from the ablation, was a migraine for a couple of days as they did have to ablate in both sides of my heart. I had already read about that side effect on this forum so was not afraid as that was normal. Knowledge gives you back all of your power.
I suffered every single day for 3 years of misery, I was afraid to be alone, sure that something terrible was going to happen. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had a job that required monthly travels. I did it but was so miserable and afraid when away from home. It was so horrible, but now I am perfectly fine and do not take any heart meds. I know we are all different but you are close to my age and I think if you have the ablation and follow a healthy lifestyle, you will have a great quality of life, as I do.
Thanks again for that
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