OK, it is 4 am… My PAF (which was weekly or twice a week) seems to have morphed into lots of ectopics in the last 4 weeks. The upside is less AF (just went almost 3 weeks in NSR, not complaining 🥴) but we all know the PACs and/or PVCs can almost feel worse. Does anyone else notice that sitting up straighter, or leaning slightly forward, can actually stop runs of ectopics? That just got me out of it, thankfully. Trying to find causes for these is driving me a little crazy. (BobD’s breathing tip also helps.). But seems if something “mechanical” like body position can control these, it makes me wonder why I am taking supplements, metoprolol, etc..! Maybe this is why chiropractic improves AF in some of us? Sending good thoughts to anyone else who’s awake at this hour, while the cats, Hamish and Angus, sleep peacefully on. 😸😽
Body position helping ectopic beats - Atrial Fibrillati...
Body position helping ectopic beats
Yes I’ve had to alter my sleeping position. I’ve always been a side sleeper but now find the best position is semi-reclined.
Hi, Loafinabout. Does that stop ectopics or AF for you?
Yes it did for me, although I had to persevere to be able to sleep like that. I had a successful Cardioversion 6 months ago and still free from AFib but still sleep in that position and sleep better for it. It may be that as my AFib may have been caused partly by sleep apnea it helps with that aspect. I have read articles which are not supportive of side sleeping and recommend that if you need to then sleep on the left side - odd as that’s the heart side but it’s something to do with part of our anatomy pressing onto the heart if we lay on the right side. I tried sleeping on the left side but didn’t like it - although I could before I had AFib! Hope that makes sense.
Yes, I understand. I also used to sleep on L side but now even sleeping on R side triggers AF. So I sleep sitting up, ugh. But now that I seem to be in ectopics most of the day & some of the nights, I am not sure where to go from here. I do get fewer afib episodes, tho… but ectopics seem more distressing, somehow. Maybe just me. Just started metoprolol 3 weeks ago so if it does it help, there may be a few more drugs to try.
I find trying to get to sleep on my left side seems to trigger my AF so I start the night on my right side and then move in my sleep to my left side with no probelms as everything seems to settle down.
I wish I could do that… but if I lie down at all, it often triggers an episode. Maybe I will try it again but currently I’m sleeping sitting up, ugh!
Good for you - whichever suits the individual really.
Hello and thank you for that post but please can you tell me what you mean by semi-reclined?
Not ‘sitting’ upright and not ‘laying down’ as you would normally . It’s somewhere in between. There are actually electric beds where the mattress can be shaped to allow this posture when it can be raised under the knees to stop you going into the laying down position in your sleep. so you maintain that position. Expensive though!
Don’t think ‘it’s only you’ - Im so sorry that nothing seems to work for you at present so please keep on exploring how you can get some relief - here and with your doctor or consultant. I know how hard it is when nothing seems to give relief, and it’s easy to lose heart, but do keep trying and do keep talking to this community.
Thank you so much for your response and encouragement... yes, I had a bad night & a bad day, even while we're slowly increasing metoprolol, so I expected to start having fewer ectopics. So many avenues to explore, it's daunting... but so many of you are walking the path. I am seeing a rheumatologist re my high inflammatory markers, which we think could affect afib.
High inflammatory markers will do it! I find Reservratrol in liquid form does help reduce inflammation if mild.
Thank you, CDreamer—that is really encouraging! my CRP is 10.5 and I saw on Afibbers.org (or .com?) that CRP should be 0 or 1 to eliminate afib. But that sounds like a tough goal, so I will try Resveratrol. 10.5 may not be mild enough, but I was in the 100’s following an autoimmune attack I had 10 months ago and we used steroids to knock it down. (And steroids, prednisone specifically, might also affect afib, I’m not sure). Did you have a high CRP also, that affected your afib?
CDreamer, I forgot to add, in case this helps somehow who is reading this, that to get inflammation down and decrease AF, I was recommended to take 1-2 tablespoons of high-polyphenol extra-virgin, cold pressed olive oil, daily. Some online heart doctor sells a VERY expensive one, but I found out from research that you just need to find out the polyphenol content, and all extra-virgin, cold-pressed olive oil contains certain levels of it.
Most cities have stores that specialize in olive oils, specialty vinegars, etc., some do tastings, and I found reasonably priced oils there with a polyphenol rating of 400-650. I bought a 650 one for $13 USD for 200 ml, to put on salads (not to cook with, as heat destroys the anti-inflamm compounds). Well, maybe it is one more helpful option, we’ll see. At least it tastes good, if you like olive oil! And there are some clinical research studies to support it.
Vagus nerve and the heart are linked and when I’m in certain body positions like bending over it can set off my heart, lying down flat usually helps my heart return to normal after a tachy episode
Thank you--I will have to try lying down flat to see if that helps the ectopics. I also have gone into an afib episode from bending over to zip up boots... frustrating!
Someone on this site suggested listening to a Metronome (for me at 60bpm) can help … I found it does… that and wearing compression socks. How this combo works I don’t know but it as silly as I look I do it.
I happen to be a professional musician and have several metronomes around, 😊so thanks a lot for this suggestion, AussieHeart! I will try it. I usually listen to the Harp of Hope CDs which have often converted me from AF in past, but these ectopics are something new. And the compression socks are worth a try==guess we don’t have to be fashion plates if it means solving these issues that drive us all crazy! Actually, compression socks might help with the bradycardia that seems to trigger a lot of us in the middle of the night…?
My AF used to always be at night and I think there are several reasons, one could be Rest and Digest ie: Sympathetic Nervous System is under reacting therefore the exercise helps because you are restoring balance and that is the case for many people. Others find resting helps which suggests that Sympathetic NS is over reacting.
The second is gastric related - when, what and how much you eat and what you do afterward. The heart is close to the stomach so an extended stomach will put pressure on diaphragm which will affect heart. Do you have any gastric symptoms such as reflux? Recommendation is to eat small amounts, sitting upright and nothing for 3 hours prior to going to bed.
The balance between Sympathetic Nervous System and Para-Sympathetic is important so achieving balance is the aim. This is often measured by monitoring vagal tone, many athletes do this. I found various methods for helping to achieve this, some of which were suggested by my neuro physiotherapists which have helped with other symptoms such as low BP and anxiety but then my nocturnal AF was caused by Bradycardia and was only when asleep, not resting so I believe that my Payasympathetic system was out of wack. Breathing exercises - focussing on the exhale, cold showers or bathing or various types of vaso vagal manoeuvres.
I found lots of ways of stopping an episode but only a pacemaker stopped the bradycardia at night which caused the AF.
I found trying to understand the cause, rather than just treating the symptom helped me find some relief but only medical interventions actually improved my QOL by stopping the AF starting in the first place.
Wow, CDreamer, thank you, you have hit upon so many factors that apply to my situation. My AF is definitely vagal, and I recently purchased the Dolphin Stim kit from a Toronto company, which is a safe, painless way to use acupuncture points to stimulate parasympathetic and increase vagal tone with micro current. They provide detailed charts for finding the points, and you use a hand-held device. Just did my first in-home treatment last night, you can do it 3 times a day. You can also clip a lead to the earlobe to do what they call “Battlefield Acupuncture”, for raising vagal tone. The trainer, Kelly Anderson, who has online videos and live ZOOM trainings, is very helpful and says she has seen remarkable results (well, I guess she would say that, wouldn’t she? 😊. ). But, if true, it could help so many of us. I’ll be a Guinea pig and report back.
Yes, I do eat small meals, not near bedtime, etc., bec I have gastric issues due to a long inflammatory bowel disease history with ulcerative colitis (in remission, but the inflamm part of it has attacked other joints and muscles, unfortunately). I believe I also get episodes from nighttime bradycardia. Does walking and exercise during the day help with that? Exercise is one missing factor in my daily life because the inflammatory attack affected my knees. I know I need to get my heartbeat up some each day.
Several months ago, I noticed that if I lay on my back or reclined in an armchair I was more prone to ectopics. When I mentioned this to my GP he said that this was likely due to compressing the stomach and chest cavity together, which puts pressure on the heart and blood flow and increases circulation. Given that an increase in ectopics can be a prelude to PAF for many, it's probably best to avoid these sorts of positions as far as possible. As this phenomenon has occurred fairly recently, I asked if it marked a worsening of the condition . The reply was that it was impossible to tell and I would have to wait and see. Another factor he mentioned was that if one is very aware of the heart one may unconsciously tense the muscles in that area which might lead to more ectopics. I find that ectopics are usually worse after poor sleep and benefit from walking or other exercise.
Thank you, Samazeuilh— helpful, because this is my experience exactly! I had to start sleeping sitting upright in a chair—not great, eh, but I guess we get used to it, anything to stop episodes. I have also noticed just what you said about constipation—that it has preceded many episodes, if I don’t “keep things moving” (which at least magnesium helps). I will try more walking to see if this helps with all these ectopics.
Interesting, the question of whether all this marks a worsening of the condition. Actually, though I’m having so many ectopics, actual AF has diminished. It’s almost as if my AF has somewhat “dispersed” into ectopics! But they also seem to feel more anxiety-producing than AF. Weird, I know. This site is comforting, though—just to know we are not alone with this complex condition.
Actually, I've had quite a few ectopics this morning when sitting in a chair. I sat up and took a Kardia reading (5 minutes duration) and it was perfect; I didn't experience any ectopics during the recording. The ectopics were fairly "light" but I know from experience that they can flip over into PAF. I didn't sleep well last night so that might have been a factor. In general, though, it's not always easy to determine what causes ectopics. I think the constipation comment was from another person.
I’m sorry you’re going through all that, too. And , yes, I sent the constipation comment to the wrong person, sorry. The ectopics are a mystery to me, never used to get them til I started using flecainide PIP, but now they appear any old time. I have to drink water as soon as I wake up, which helps, so dehydration plays a role even though I don’t feel thirsty. Started metoprolol which takes away some of the ectopics. I hope you get some respite from yours soon.
I get a lot of ectopic beats whenever I lie down on my right side. From what I've been told, in some individuals, two organs can naturally press against the heart: the oesophagus and the diaphragm. This is sufficient, I gather, in prone individuals, to irritate the heart sufficiently to cause it to develop ectopic beats which, in some, can trigger arrhythmias such as AF.
In my case, I've seen on a heart monitor how gulping a drink can set off an ectopic beat, and on an X-ray, once, the doctor showed me how the left side of my diaphragm was pushed right up against the base of my heart by my stomach, which was bloated from breakfast and swallowed air. He told me that constipation or similar can cause similar movements of the organs and lead to ectopic beats.
Isn't the human body amazing?
Steve
Thanks so much for this, Steve. I just mistakenly responded to someone else about your constipation comment, sorry! But I’m in agreement, bec that was also an issue for me, too. And I used to love sleeping on my R side, but that started triggering AF, so I now sleep in a comfortable chair sitting up (but can still get some AF episodes, sitting up). However, sitting up quietly, or even sitting slightly forward, say, at the computer, can actually STOP ectopics often, for me. It’s a complicated condition we are all dealing with!
The explanations you got are helpful and make sense… but I wonder if my high inflammatory markers are causing my heart especially to be irritated by certain body positions in recent years, since it sure wasn’t always like this!
I doubt most people ever get to the bottom of what brings on AF or other arrhythmias . What seems very important to us doesn’t often seem to excite them! I suspect doctors don’t have enough interest or time in general to want to look deeply.
Steve
I am interested if the Dolphin Stim kit helped lessen your AF over time?
Also, do you monitor you AF with a device? I am connecting with others that have vagal af and are trying to reduce ectopics and AF in general.
Robert
Hi Robert, I am actually in afib at the moment, HR about 100 or so, and 250 mg of flec (in divided doses over the day) has not stopped it in 20 hrs, but it’s 3 am here in N. Kentucky. I have not used my Dolphin Stim lately because last March I got on metoprolol, and it has worked very well…until this episode. In the last few days, I’ve just started taking high dose prednisone for an ulcerative colitis flare and this is likely a factor here. Will be messaging my GP in a minute.
It’s possible I have mixed AF, though it usually starts at night. I am going to try Dolphin shortly on this episode. My ectopics stopped, thank God, once I got on daily metoprolol, and AF episodes went to every 2 - 4 or more weeks. (My first bad episodes of ectopics were caused by too much flecainide that the cardiac nurse told me to take… the dr jumped in and reversed her advice asap! But I had 4 miserable days. I have changed drs.)
I would like to start using Dolphin again, and will keep you posted on my results. Please say a prayer that it gets me out of this episode shortly! All best Christmas wishes for healing to you… Diane S
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