Ablation, yes, or no?
Ablation, yes, or no?: Ablation, yes... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Ablation, yes, or no?
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Bodydoctor12
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Difficult choice, isn't it. I wish I'd known long before having my 3 ablations, just how much changing my diet to one that includes no artificial additives could help. Really wish I'd tried that before. So that's what I would suggest you do first.
Jean
Thanks Jean. I'm actually on a very good diet and am really quite fit exercising every other day and cycling everywhere or walking. I don't drink or smoke. This came on full time when my endocrinologist upped my Thyroid meds - previously I had asymptomatic paroxysmal AF. I don't know what to do cause I hate the sound of the scar tissue formation in the heart after the ablation. I'm currently not in rhythm and have a very irregular irregular ECG so I'm waiting for an appointment with the cardiologist. I'm in the UK and we have a very long waiting list - I don't have private insurance.
How much Levo are you taking? I'm on 75mcgm.
in reply to Bodydoctor12
Agree with Jean about the thyroid function. I had my first ablation in 2016 and a second in 2018. For the first 7 months everything was fine then I started to get more frequent episodes and was put on the list for a third. In between I was treated for overactive thyroid and episodes reduced so no.3 ablation was put on hold. It’s nearly a year 🤞🤞🤞 since I last had an episode so waiting to see what my EP says at my review in May. Half expecting to be discharged which I want to avoid if I can but many EP’s insist that thyroid issues are treated first…..
Bodydoctor12 in reply to
This is encouraging, my bloods have come back showing that my T3 is too high and my TSH is too low, classic signs of too much thyroxine. I'm hoping that as it reduces, I'm on a lower dose now, the heart will quieten down. Thanks for this information, it's cheered me up a bit.
I would urge you to read the link that blulla1 has provided. It's the report of a man who has cured his AF and how he did it.
Many of us have good diets and regularly exercise. Check this out. carrafibdietinfo.com/
Thanks, this is right up my street. I am a Naturopath/Osteopath and so this is right up my street !
I was kept on Sotalol for 2yrs by my E.P. who is pushy about ablation.That drug had my brain in a fog. That started in 2018. In 2020 angrily I flatly refused. I was put on Labetalol. No more fog brain! I am in permanent afib on rate control drugs for 4 yrs.
I was on Sotalol briefly twice. The first time I used it as a pill in the pocket (made me feel spaced out). The second was after an ablation and it didn't prevent my AF, so I had to go back onto Flecainide. My EP isn't a great fan of Flecainide and advised me to try to lower lower my dose of 100mg x 2 daily and increase Metoprolol if needed.
I've not heard of Labetalol. Are you in the UK?
Jean
Hello jean, yes, I am, in London. Thanks for all your advice, I shall check out these drugs. I haven't been recommended a beat blocker as my Cardiologist said that my heart rate at night is quite low an it would be a risk. So far, I've just been recommended the anticoagulants. I had a range of blood tests yesterday so waiting for feedback on those
Tough call BD.
I think only you can decide with your EP. For many it works - for some it doesn't. I'm holding on for now - I might regret it. OK let's dig deeper. Jean has had three as she states - not succussful. Others on the forum have one and it works wonders. Do you gamble as that's what it is IMO.
I don't think we can tell you what decision to make. For me personally I'm holding on for now - who knows if new treatments are coming soon ? I have to work and earn 'my keep' and certainly don't fancy being stuck in bed for weeks on end. I just can't do it.
Question time. When was the last time you were in normal rhythm ? It can make a difference to the success rate.
If I had to make a call now on this one I would most likely say yes. However you need to chat with your EP - he / she will know better than I.
Make sure you have enough money to support yourself for a few weeks if you go ahead. You'll need to take things very easy for a few weeks after.
Good luck whichever way you go.
It's a toss of the coin - however my call is to do it. I am not a medic so consult with your EP and decide from there.
Paul
Hi Paul, thanks for your feedback. I think it was in early December. Does that make a difference to the outcome of the ablation? I'll be waiting a long while for it anyway use of the back log of operations due to Covid and with my age 62 and my CHADS- VAsc score I'm considered low risk......
Just to say if all these things do not work do not despair. I had my one and only ablation in 2013 and still free of AF.
I was going to say everything you wrote!Well put x
You should be ok BD - it sounds like you are living a healthy lifestyle which will help no end. I don't think waiting a while will really affect the outcome.
Yep I'm in the go for it camp - see what others say as I'm sure you will get more replies.
Good luck.
Paul
Whats an EP, by the way?
An electrophysiologist, also known as a cardiac electrophysiologist or cardiac EP, is a cardiologist who focuses on testing for and treating problems involving irregular heart rhythms, also known as arrhythmias.
Paul
Edit - It's a doctor who just deals with heart rhythms BD, If you have been put forward for ablation that's who you will seeing.
it sounds as if your thyroid needs sorting out- ablation might not work if the thyroid is the culprit!! It's well known cause of AF
When my Cardio guy discussed Af with me right in the beginning this topic was discussed. More based on emotion than anything else I said NO !
I have no regrets about that decision, preferrring the medication and lifestyle route first.
John
Told you BD - you'll get a mixed response to your question here. I fully respest everyones opinion and their thoughts.
You'll get a mixed bag I feel - at the end of the day you must decide. One thing I will point out - those who had a succussful ablation tend not to post. It's us afibbers who tend to still use the forum.
I'll bet you'll get more reponses (both ways) by the morning.
Have a great evening.
Paul
BobDVolunteer
OK cards on the table I had three RF ablations over four years which stopped my AF and probably saved my life. (My surgeon agrees that he would not have been prepared to do the operation which cured my cancer thee years later had I still had AF and therfor would have missed some areas that they were not aware of till they went inside. )
That many years later I developed a different arrhythmia does not alter the eleven years I was arrhythmia free.
That said it must be clearly understood that all treatment for AF is only for quality of life as it is not a life saving procedure. Only you can decide which way to go but once you have exhausted all the life style changes I would not discount it. Just don't ever look back and say I wish.
Thanks for your insight Bob, I'm glad to hear you're clear of cancer. Thats great news. This is also very informative: "That said it must be clearly understood that all treatment for AF is only for quality of life as it is not a life saving procedure." I hate the thought of anti-coagulants, they are so toxic. I have the Leiden V factor, a genetic predisposition, which increases my likelihood of blood clots so I have to take it seriously.
Then you should also know that even successful ablation does not remove stroke risk. Having been on warfarin since 2004 I have no intention of ever stopping.
I've heard this before from one of the cardiology team, and I don't understand why as the turbulence is reduced, which I thought was the reason for the clots forming. There's so much to take on board......
Hi it's because AF can reoccur randomly and sometimes without symptoms. So you are trotting about with a much higher risk of stroke unknowingly.
Birmingham University Hospital did a large scale study and their recommendations were to continue with anticoagulation indefinitely even after ablation or other interventions.
May I ask why you don't fancy ACs?
There's a lot to take in for you at the moment. There are some excellent guides on here written by patients.
Might help you focus xx
The risk is always there BD once you have afib. My CHAD score is also 0 and I'm younger than you. However I insisited on going back on anticoagulants as I'm afib all the time now. It was quite funny as the cardio said I don't need to. We 'discussed' it and I really did insisit on going back on them. It's crazy really - afib all the time and you don't need them. WHAT.
Always check things yourself and don't always take a doctors advice. Make sure you only look at decent websites - here is a good starting point for you.
Paul
I started reading the responses and then intentionally skipped them - FWIW I am 48, healthy but have a-fib due to congenital aortic and mitral valve defects. I have had 2 ablations and 5 cardioversions - because of structural issues in my heart, these have not worked.
BUT - how i experience a-fib has changed as a result of the ablations and for the better.
So I would say yes. Its not a major procedure. Cardioversions are more fun, especially if you live in South Africa where they just sedate you for the procedure.
Yes. If offered and advised, yes
But sort the thyroid issue. And don’t be afraid of anticoagulants. Even if turbulence reduced, even a small cardiac irregularity carries a stroke risk. And the wait may be shorter than you think, mine was but my local teaching hospital cardiology department prioritises ablations. Good luck!
It’s all about Quality of your life right now.
You say you are fit healthy exercising regularly with a healthy diet and lifestyle and seemingly doing everything that you want to do in life without restriction..
I have a very similar decision to make and in the same situation as you..
Myself having seen several well respected Cardiologists/EP’s in recent times the verdict is at best confusing with very different opinions held by all.
One a telephone consultation due to Covid restrictions wants to put me on Amiodarone immediately with its well known for some side effects for an unspecified time leading to ablation and made me aware of very very long waiting list..this without seeing me or any basic check up.
Another using the exact same report from an earlier consultation and heart scan tells me this time a face to face“your QOL is excellent fit healthy good diet/lifestyle without restriction why would you take the risk of 1 possibly more several more ablations” with all the well documented risks scarring etc etc etc possibly a pacemaker and being left much worse than my current position and then tells me that in medical terms the procedure has a very poor success rate just keep taking your current medication cocktail of Bisoprolol Losartan and Edoxaban of which I have No side effects and again these medications can affect everyone very differently.
We are told that our condition gets progressively worse but we also know that it affects each and every one of us very differently if you had a poor QOL then the choices are made for you.
The decision is ours Stay Well.
Yes, I have been AFIB free since my PVI Cryo ablation 4 yeas ago . However I had NO co morbitities, was fit and the EP advised me he thought it would be a succesful ablation.
In my opinion, yes, I was one of those poor saps whose AF totally ruined their quality of life. I had an ablation in 2015 and while I still get a few bouts a year I have a full and active life. So yes, I’d recommend it if your situation was on a par with mine. If my condition gets worse I would have another tomorrow in a blink.
Im going to have to chime in here, since no one has mentioned THE option for ending AFIB which has a 96% success rate as a "one and done procedure" and getting off all AFIB medications and off all anti-coagulants for good.
What is this you ask? Its called a Wolf Mini Maze. I will include a few sites that you can review. Get all the information you can on AFIB, research ALL available treatment options and then make an informed decision, but get ALL the facts first.
I was a 6.5 yr veteran of the AFIB monster, 4-6x a week, lasting from 3-30 hours consistently, and heart rates from 150-200+. I had a Wolf Mini Maze, (WMM) on July 26, 2021 in Houston Texas with Dr. Wolf himself. Since then, no AFIB, and no meds at all!!!
two things to keep in mind in making your decision:
1. AFIB almost always originates on the outside of the heart, and the vagal nerve is usually the culprit (which is never addressed with ablations).
2. The Stroke risk for people with AFIB, is from blood clots forming in the appendage which is why anti-coagulant are strongly recommended. Remove the appendage (LAA), remove the risk of clots and the need for anticoagulants. (which is never addressed with ablations).
You can also read my previous post here and see my journey to making this decision.
Wishing you the best with any decision you make.
Learn all you can, ...then make your decision.
heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
facebook.com/groups/4129396...
Mini maze is good but clots don’t only form in atrial appendage so Risk is only reduced it eliminated
When the heart pumps in an irregular, uncoordinated way, there is a decreased flow of blood to the body, which is typically slow moving and likely to cause a blood clot. In the majority of cases, the clots form in the left atrial appendage (LAA), a small, pouchlike sac in the top left chamber of the heart.
Your decision of course but I would say YES, YES, YES. My afib and flutter had no discernible trigger and I was descending into heart failure. A year to the day since my second ablation and I have had no arrhythmia since. I had forgotten what it was like to feel well.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
I got one despite burden not being massive - it mainly prevented me doing Triathlons, but my AF was progressing (more frequent, less to trigger it) and my understanding is that the earlier the ablation the greater the chance of success. 6 months on from ablation, no AF, good rhythm but not doing triathlons again yet. It must clobber the heart a fair bit as my resting heart rate is now up 10 from 60 to 70. Yes I am glad I had the ablation.
Hi bodydoctor.You do not say what type of ablation. I am a 80year old female who had two ablations when I had my operation to have a mitral valve repair five years ago. They never worked dispite trying a number of medications. My heart rate has been going at 100 to110 since then. They recently found that this constant high HR was affecting my heart muscle and I was in danger of heart failure. I have therefore had a AV mode catheter ablation which has made me reliant on my pacemaker. I now feel totally different and seem to have a new lease of life. Yvonne
An emphatic yes for me and anyone with my profile. Short bouts of highly symptomatic afib almost daily. Episodes increasing over time. Seriously impacted quality of life. No comorbidities. Meds, lifestyle and dietary changes ineffective. Got my life back.
I'd got to the stage of having heart failure at level 4 and was offered an ablation.
I was told by a friend that your heart is an electrically driven device - which is what they measure when you have an ECG.
His advice was that if an electric motor starts acting up the first thing you do is check the wiring. If there's a loose wire you fix it and the commonest problem is a loose , corroded or poorly connected Earth wire.
We live in a world of electrical devices and the air is full of it so we should expect delicate electrical circuits to be affected. We have insulated ourselves from 'Mother Earth' by using synthetic materials on our feet and under our feet so we don't allow the Earth to neutralise the electricity that has accumulated in our body. His advice was to make sure that I am Earthed properly regularly.
I've been doing that for a few years now and have been discharged by my EP. (Without an ablation.)
My HF is now at level one and I have 'normal' ECG's
It's worth bearing in mind that the type of electricity that we are so used to using is AC (Alternating Current) and this is man made electricity and therefore not what Nature intended our bodies to have to cope with. It does not exist in Nature. 'Natural' electicity is DC (direct current).
There's a big issue being sorted out in the US at present as to whether 5G signals (microwaves) can disrupt the electronics in planes, so it doesn't take much imagination to say that a delicate system such as our body's electrical system might also be affected by external electricity from whatever source.
I've learned that some people are more sensitive to electricity than others are so all I can say is that it worked for me and for a lot of other people I know. Try it - it's free!
Wow! Thanks for this input. It makes sense to me to think like this. I do think I' one of those people who is very sensitive to electrical charges, I get shocks quite regularly from things and my hair gets static too. I've been researching earthing blankets and will do more looking.
All you need to do to test this is stand barefoot on the Earth (grass, sand, etc) for about 20minutes before you go to bed. You can sit on a chair and have a cuppa while you do it. 
You should feel better and sleep better too.
If you are having the 'flutters' and can Earth yourself straight away you should feel almost immediate results.
There's nothing to lose by trying it.
Very interesting.
There's another advantage to Earthing.
A properly charged red cell has a negative charge round its entire exterior. This means that the cells naturally repel each other and this reduces 'clumping' or clotting.
So interesting. I was living near the beach when my afib really kicked in. I had my ablation in Feb and started doing my walks barefoot as soon as it was warm enough. Now I am not near the beach and afib is back. However, I did get afib episodes if I walked to far or fast, even on the beach. I will have to look into this more as I’m on the brink of a second ablation. Thx for that info!
my second ablation was transformational to my life, removing the meds (Except anticoagulant) which made me torpid all the time and stopping the afib that made me feel awful and weak when happening, and anxious about the damned thing starting when it was not.
to answer your question Yes ... Yes
Steve
I'd say 'yes' even though during my first (sedated) cryo ablation my heart stopped (asystole) twice. The second period of asystole made them abort the procedure. Only one vein had been ablated.
My next RF ablation, 6 months later under GA, sorted my AF but revealed flutter after a couple of weeks. My third ablation 4 months later sorted that flutter. That was a year ago, all fine since. I'd been in persistent, constant AF for nearly 3 years before those ablations, they'd tried bisoprolol, sotalol and amiodarone.
No meds now, apart from anticoag (edoxaban) due CHAD score of 1 just for my age.
(UK, NHS)
I think it depends on how the AFIB is impacting your life. I have silent AFIB that I detected while wearing a heart monitor during exercise. I like to cycle and swim and AFIB made it next impossible to do since my HR would significantly spike even with medication. Although I could not feel my AFIB, the loss of those athletic activities was hard to take. As a result, I had an ablation one year after my AFIB diagnosis and I am so happy I did.
It has been three years now and I have no problems. I also had the Watchman device implanted and I am now off blood thinners as well. I am a 66 year old male
Yes, for me. My afib progressed steadily in one year and I was very symptomatic despite rate and rhythm drugs. I had a cryoablation early 2018 and a radiofrequency ablation for atypical aflutter late 2019. I am so much better. I have had two breakthrough episodes.
I said no. After much reading and reflection of the risks vs. benefits, I changed my diet, cut back on alcohol, stopped my flecainide, and started taking an anti-anxiety med somehow, I have not had an "event" in well over a year. I carry a 25-pound bucket of deer/turkey feed up a football length hill each morning and evening, still snow blow my 250' driveway, and feel like I have a new life. But all I am saying is to think twice before the ablation. I have a great EP Doc who supported my attempt to go the no ablation route and said, he would be there if I ever needed him. That was impressive and a confidence builder to try but be careful.
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