After ablation do the irregularities completely go away? Could you say... have coffee again, or a few beers? I'm thinking if heart is not damaged and the electrical issue is fixed, you'd be back to normal? Also, has anyone found long-term studies on ablation? Any info on post-ablation life is appreciated. I know everyone is different, but I'd like to get an idea of potential outcomes etc. Thank you in advance.
Ablation doubts/questions.: After... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Ablation doubts/questions.
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RR-74
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Hi RR 74,
as our afib guru Bob always says, we are all different. What works for one may not work for another.
Some are afib free for many years after the ablation. For some the mongrel condition returns quiet fast.
I had mine about 4 1/2 years ago and so far afib free with smaller issues here and there. But still suffering from ectopic beats, quite often, (they are sometimes more scary than afib) also some svt here and there. Gave up on beer and coffee and still need to get rid of some serious weight. On the other hand, there are young, fit ppl who also developed afib. Lifestyle change may be a big factor. You planning to have an ablatlion?
Cheers
J.
Hi John,
Thanks for commenting. It's in the back of my mind. EP says no, I'm too young, 47. I can workout fine for now. I just started on a beta blocker 5 months ago after some strong stress at the beginning of the year, but I've had heart acting up for about 3 years, sleep apnea is the culprit and maybe some on my part as well with alcohol since it makes the apnea worse. I don't know how long I'll need to be on the beta blocker, but I'd like to think that I'll be able to stop it as I improve with cpap, exercise and meditation. They tell me it's PAC's, which in theory can improve with exercise. Even with beta blocker I still get a daily reminder in the evening mostly, some PACs, rarely does it ever speed up. I think I heard someone say that beta blockers don't affect PACs . I guess I'm on the beginning stages of heart issues. We'll see how it progresses, I'm just looking for info, I see EP again in august. I, like everyone else, just wish I could go back to normal, you know? Where you workout or stress and your heart isn't doing weird crap stressing you out more. I know it's wishful thinking, but being on cpap, working out, meditating.. just hoping all these things help enough I can drop meds, i'm on a very low dose beta blocker and for most of the day and night I'm fine, just a hint of PACs in the evening at this point. It was pretty bad at the beginning of year, but with the changes it's gotten way better.
You are doing all most of the right things in tackling the sleep apnea, stress and exercise - remember that too much exercise will also stress the body so getting the amount right for you is important so too much can be as bad as too little. If your heart starts playing up in the evening, that is a subtle message that it’s done quite enough for one day, probably a little too much so pay attention to those subtle signals.
The 4th area of the 4 Lifestyle Pillars is nutrition - certainly alcohol has a detrimental affect on the heart, even in small quantities as it’s known to cause scarring on the lining in the heart which makes AF far more likely so avoid or my rule now is very occasional and never drink in the evening and never less than 3 hours before bedtime. Sugar is another baddy - avoid all processed foods, sugary drinks, all artificaial sweetners (worse than sugar).
I’m big into fermented foods and make my own Kumboocha - which can be slightly alcoholic so is a good alternative. If you really want a beer - look for naturally fermented and crafted beers.
Often AF can start after stomach/gut issues so pay attention to how you feel when eating and keeping a food diary can help identify what your body doesn’t like. Some people do well with coffee whilst others can’t touch it. When my AF was at it’s worst I couldn’t touch coffee but now I have 1 cup of good quality coffee with impunity.
My rules for food are:-
Nothing from a packet which contains more than 5 ingredients and all the ingredients need to be things we recognise as food ie:- anything else is chemical which the body won’t recognise as food so treats as a toxin.
Organic wherever possible
Eat the rainbow - 80% plant based, preferably organic.
Eat as many different types of foods a day as possible - aim for 30/day (in a salad alone you could have 15 types of foods)
Avoid diets - find an eating plan which suits you and stay with it.
You might look at some supplementation - Magnesium is the most common for arrythmias and helps some - no difference in other.
Chasing causation, triggers and cures is a bit like seeking the Holy Grail - no-one really knows what, where or how so stay with what is known and evidenced.
To answer your question on ablation - it can be very effective for many but judging by this forum, it often requires ‘touch up’s’ so one ablation and expect to walk out without having to take drugs is unlikely. Recovery time varies - some 3-4 weeks whilst others take months to recover - now that may depend upon age, other conditions and fitness levels. I had 2 ablations 2013-2014. 1st make things a lot worse. 2nd gave me about 3 years free of AF. I now have a pacemaker and having done all the Lifestyle adjustments rarely have episodes - 3 altogether since 2018. I take no heart drugs other than anticoagulants.
Hope that helps as you are right at the start of your journey and an excellent time to really think how you might improve your quality of life rather than suffer a slow decline.
Best wishes
CDreamer I'd love some tips for making Kombucha which I find an excellent substitute for alcohol on these balmy summer days. Do you have a website link you could point me towards?
culturelove.co.uk/why-the-m...
Tiffany - blog post above - is the expert who taught me - she will send scoobies through the post - but it’s pretty easy to produce your own. Tiffany teaches fermenting at River Cottage & runs her own workshops in normal times. She does it for the love rather than the money - email her & say I recommended you to her.
I tend towards the Jun (uses green tea & honey) rather than kumboocha - uses black tea + sugar. The scoobie consumes the sugar so you don’t & fermented the tea. If you PM me with a personal email (don’t post on forum) I’ll give you chapter & verse of how/what I do.
There are also loads of demos on YouTube. Hope that helps.
The trouble with this forum is that the 70% of people who don't need 'touch-ups' won't stick around. Why should they? This can give the impression that most people need more than one ablation and I don't think this is correct.
No, with PACs you don't need an ablation. I had those and when I went to the hospital in 1996 the heart surgeon drew a little picture with an extra rogue signal coming from somewhere else in my heart. He said it was firing and giving the impression of a missed beat. Nothing to worry about.
I didn't worry and when I was in hospital in 2013 they said I had atrial fibrillation. I thought that it was wrong and was simply the PACs. What I didn't know was that over the years the extra rogue signal had been joined by lots of others.
I don't think they did much harm to my heart and having had the ablation, they've all been stopped in their tracks so I'm not expecting them to come back as I don't have much stress in my life. I don't let things worry me.
If you go on working out then I think things will only get worse. I have a theory that the origin of these rogue signals is your heart trying to help you by beating faster. Each period of stress can produce an extra one.
Exercise is good but very much in moderation. Pushing yourself is not good.
You must be in the USA. The sleep apnoea suggests that you are overweight. It might be fat or muscle but getting down to your ideal weight would probably help. Sort out your lifestyle, no heavy meals, no heavy drinking, eat your fruit and veg, don't sit still in one place for too long. Try not to get stressed by anything. Enjoy your life!
Thank you, I think my EP, knowing more than I do, is on point telling me ablation is something for the future. I guess I'm just inpatient to get rid of this. I'm currently dropping weight 196 lbs. Highest was 210. I'm 5'10", I'm aiming for 170-180 depending on musculature. Doc told me weight was not my issue.
Hello, I am 47 and had an ablation for severe PACs, PVCs, and A few SVTs 7 weeks ago. I could not tolerate beta blockers which was the 1st choice of all 3 of my doctors for the PACs. So I was put on a couple anti arrhythmic medications that eventually both stopped working. I would have on average 8,000 - 10,000 PACs in 24 hours (not counting the other two issues). It was horrible. Once the meds stopped working my EP decided that all other meds were too harmful and that an ablation was my only other option. Since having my ablation I have not been drinking alcohol or anything with caffeine. I still have PACs but not nearly as many as before. So far they are tolerable. I am still in the healing process. But so far it has been a good experience.
I wish the best for you.
Many members here have discovered that changing to a more plant based and artificial additive free diet can greatly reduce their AF attacks. Also cutting out as much sugar as possible, losing weight and supplementing with magnesium.
Cardiologist Dr Sanjay Gupta of York Cardiology UK has posted some really helpful posts on YouTube. He's someone who genuinely wants to help AF sufferers. Have a look, there'll be an answer there for all you need to know, all explained in a way we can understand. On my mobile phone right now but will add a link to his posts when on my PC.
I've had 3 ablations and still have AF which is a lot milder now. My first two made my condition worse.
Jean
There are some new longer term studies and if I have a moment I'll try to find them. One in Australia I believe. My EP when we met to discuss the ablation told me - people do better when they MAINTAIN their positive lifestyle changes i.e. longer term with no arrythmia. Included in the findings was healthy diet, regular exercise and only occasional alcohol. I'm in my 9th week of recovery. I won't be drinking caffeinated coffee again or wine on gun and tonic 😉 but I'm hoping the occasional glass of local artisan cider and a decent beer will be OK as I seemed to tolerate these before ablation. I think, for me anyway, they key thing is not to go back but forward. 🤞🤞 For both you and me!
BobDVolunteer
Ablation for some is life changing but life changing can make ablation unecessary.
Read that again.
Sorting out all the thngs wrong with your life and changing your whole ethos and way of eating, coping with stress, etc are all vital if you are ever going to conquer the demon.
Sounds like you have started that process so well done you. Aim for a BMI less than 26. no alcohol or caffiene, reduce meat and processed foods and try to eat a more plant based natural diet (you really don't need to go vegan just less meat) and gentle exercise and I'm sure things will contune to improve but the sleep apnoea is the most inportant thing right now.
Does ablation help. For me yes. I'm AF free since 2008 but more recently I have developed other cardiac issues which are far less of a problem.
I'm also 13 years older and well past the three score years and ten!
Thank you, yes I've been very serious and sleep apnea has been under control for 4 months now. I hate the thought of how long it may have been there, but I have to focus on what's ahead and not behind. Sorry to hear you've developed other cardiac issues, but good to hear they're a lesser problem. I'm headed that way, lower than 26 bmi I mean, currently 28, but it wont be long.
I have coffee daily, and I'm going out for a few beers today with my son, in lieu of father's day. I'm having the pre-op appointment for my ablation in a couple of weeks, having been delayed from before the pandemic started.
YMMV, and we are all different, but I've not yet found that any one thing, or combinations, can be be reliably said to be 'triggers'. Yes, my tolerance for some things is lower, coffee and alcohol included, but as long as I keep myself warm, fed and well hydrated I can cheat and often do.
Interesting, heat is the opposite for me, it triggers mine. Strangely enough though, not all heat. Working out seems to be fine, walking outside on a hot day is fine, even sunbathing. However, waking up hot is a trigger. I agree, it seems difficult to pinpoint what works best and some things make themselves known and you know to avoid.
I had my first ablation on May 12th this year and have already had a couple of beers and the odd coffee without any trouble.We are all different though and what might work for me may not work for someone else.Moderation in all things, food, drink and exercise is the key I would say, but also listen to your body.
What I wouldn't give for a symptom free life, glad to hear it. Seems like the mental stress is worse than the actual issue at times.
Well it is very much so far so good, but it's early days and deep down I do expect it to come back at some point, just hoping it is later rather than sooner.
Get the book The AFIB CURE by EP John Day. That will answer all your questions. Comes in audio, too.
I had aggressive AFIB. 4 ablations. 2nd one gave me 10 years of peace. First hit with flutter/AFIB at age 54 or so.
I follow stringent diet and lifestyle plan. I want full effectiveness for ablation, so I don't taunt it.
I wish people well .... but I, personally, don't understand AFIB patients who do or don't get ablation who continually eat, drink, and practice things that brought it on in the first place. Everyone has triggers they should avoid.
I've made a lot of progress. The mental shift was overwhelming. The problem is that it gets coupled with the fact that the things that hurt you are the ones that help you cope. I can see why people try to find a balance. I've been very aggressive at correcting my path, once a week I have a beer or 2 socializing with friends and not staying up late. I'm shifting over to 1 since I can see on the overnight oximeter that the heart rate isn't at it's low optimal point compared to a non-drinking evening. We do get together in the evening which makes sense that the HR is not optimal at rest. I'll see how 1 beer works and I suppose I'll eventually stop altogether. If you don't mind me asking, could you share what your diet is like?
I eat total organic ... as minimally processed as possible. Straight from the garden and farm is good. No GMO, dyes, MSG, or sugar. Semi- Keto diet otherwise known as low-carb eating. Not a lot of animal meats, but some. Lots of sardines, salmon and other low-toxin fish. Bowls of veggies daily.
No soda pop (avoid sugars like the plague). No alcohol. No coffee (allergic to anything with caffeine). No stimulant foods, drinks, or supplements to keep nervous system and heart calm.
There's all kinds of delicious things I can eat, so I'm not deprived. Especially if you make things at home. I don't miss anything, really. Glad the alcohol is in my past.
The benefits: I'm probably near same weight I was in high school. And ... I was buying a gag Energy Pill product for a friends birthday .... and the cashier said to me: "We card for that item at 19 ....... " Now, I'm almost 70. I do look 50 in dim light, but I didn't think I looked 18! Lastly, I appear to have much more energy than some of my peers. For example, 12 days after my recent ablation I was back up to logging 10 mile days on my Long Distance brisk walking program.
There you go .... Part of my dull life. Good Luck! to you and your progress. I'm confident it will all work out fine for you.
Had my only ablation 6 years ago, all I can say is “it fixed me” and I am on no meds whatsoever! After an initial 3 months thinking they had made me worse things got rapidly better, to the point that I have a regular resting heartbeat of around 50BPM. 70BPM normal day to day activities, and at excercise (jogging 5 or 10k) it goes up to 170 at which point I walk for a bit. I’m 61 now still getting plenty of exercise drink strong coffee without a thought and although not a regular drinker do binge drink at BBQ’s and nights out at least once or twice a month. (Stella and or Rum) I work shifts 2 early starts, 2 x 2pm starts and 2 night shifts so not the healthiest of lifestyles either. Undoubtedly the best decision I have made with regard my healthGood Luck hope it all works out for you. This sight kept me sane whilst waiting and waiting for the scar to do its stuff post ablation 👍
Gosh it does sound as if you’ve been well and truly ‘fixed’, Swamps. Good for you - and thanks for posting as it’s encouraging to read!
Omg, that's amazing, particularly with the crazy schedule! I expect you're in some lower % that has gone back to complete recovery and suffer no symptoms even when you tax the body. I don't understand enough about heart health, but I keep thinking this is how it should work considering the muscle may very well be healthy and the issue is simply connectivity. Once connectivity is fixed we should be able to do everything we want without repercussions, of course I mean as much as someone who never had the condition. This is obviously the dream for everyone in here. It's very encouraging. Happy for you and thanks for sharing.
I had all the checks and the heart surgeon (From Basildon cardiac unit) said of my angiogram that my veins were clear and working like motorways and with the stress echo cardio gram I had the heart of an athlete ( To which I replied “I should be OK unless the athlete wants it back” so started with a good base then had an attack of tachycardia (189BPM Resting whilst hooked up to the ECG so they were able to map it accurately (think that’s how they explained it) So I did have a lot going my way and so grateful also know how lucky I was to get free of the episodes or tachycardia the eptopics and the bouts of bradycardia which went as low as 35 at times.
Initially diagnosed with AF (age 44) which later was diagnosed as AFlutter. Offered ablation for both but elected to get the Flutter done only. That was 3 years ago.I believe disturbed sleep was a piece in my jigsaw, along with stress & caffeine intake. Also believe keeping rehydrated is important too. After exercise or if I've not taken much fluids on board i will take a drink with a rehydration tablet dropped in
On no meds now. Only thing i try to keep taking is magnesium taurate.
Initially avoided caffeine and alcohol, but will now have a couple of coffees per day. Alcohol has increased especially due to lockdowns. I have at least one beer most nights. Every other weekend or two i will have a night out and have approx 5 pints.
No probs so far
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