Can someone explain the difference from Flutter and Afib. Thankyou.

[ETHEL103]

Atrial Flutter

[BobD Volunteer]

Easy. Flutter is a fast regular beat from your right atrium which presents on ECG as a saw tooth trace. Fibrillation has no rhythm and occurs in the left atrium and shows with no P wave.

[Overseventy in reply to BobD]

One Doctor said he thought I have flutter then another one said it could be something called re entry have you heard of that ? I am on medication and have just had an episode but find it difficult to explain my symptoms but just feel awful ,I do have anxiety and think I panic a lot when not feeling well.

[ETHEL103 in reply to Overseventy]

Your not alone Overseventy. Its a constant battle isn't it. If I feel okay one day I'm always thinking the flutters and heart will go fast anytime. Just horrible and I try to put it out of my mind but I can feel every strange flutter and missed beat.

[Overseventy in reply to ETHEL103]

Hello Ethel, yes it is a struggle I also have the ectopic beat I really don’t like that it is so forceful some days.

[ETHEL103 in reply to Overseventy]

Although it's awful for other people going through this it's nice to be able to talk to people about it. We are not alone. Take care.

[Hidden in reply to Overseventy]

These “heavy” ectopics with me at least can indicate that PAF is impending. I had some ectopics yesterday but managed to quieten them before they developed into anything worse. I find that lack of sleep often makes them pronounced as does any trapped air- I always make a point of deliberately trying to belch up any air before going to bed. Finally, the anxiety they generate sets up a vicious circle. Probably worth keeping a diary to see if these things (or others) are triggers for you.

[Fazerboy in reply to Overseventy]

Hi, you mention re-entry. I had tachycardia which was then shown to be svt (supra ventricular tachycardia) then diagnosed as AV Node Re-entry Tachycardia. My hr would jump to about 160 instantly and then drop just as quickly. It sounds odd but I found that if I lay on my back and relaxed for a minute or so my hr would drop back to normal. I had an ablation eventually and it has been ok since then.

[Overseventy in reply to Fazerboy]

Thanks for mentioning the re entry everyone has heard about AF or flutter but not many seem aware of the re entry. I had several episodes but every time I was checked nothing was showing up, I then wore a holter for 3weeks and managed to capture an episode where my blood pressure shot up to 160 as the episode were infrequent I said I didn’t want ablation yet. They do make me feel unwell and I think I panic.

[Fazerboy in reply to Overseventy]

I do a lot of cycling and I wear a chest strap heart rate monitor. This proved to me that my hr was jumping up instantly, staying high then dropping back instantly. I eventually managed to convince my cardiologist. You may not have svt (avnrt) (google for info) but it might be worth considering.If it is svt, I understand that it is relatively straightforward to stop it with an ablation.

[Hidden]

From the British Heart Foundation website

“Normally, the top chambers (atria) contract and push blood into the bottom chambers (ventricles). In atrial fibrillation, the atria beat irregularly. In atrial flutter, the atria beat regularly, but faster than usual and more often than the ventricles, so you may have four atrial beats to every one ventricular beat.

Atrial flutter is less common than atrial fibrillation

Atrial flutter is less common, but has similar symptoms (feeling faint, tiredness, palpitations, shortness of breath or dizziness). Some people have mild symptoms, others have none at all. About a third of people with atrial flutter also have atrial fibrillation.”

In my experience, atrial flutter feels like sinus rhythm because of a high level of atrioventricular (AV) block (4:1 or 5:1) giving me a heart rate of 75 or 60 respectively.

If you take a typical atrial rate of 300 beats per minute, then the ventricular rate may be

300 = no AV block (1:1 conduction through the AV node)

150 = 2:1 AV block

100 = 3:1 AV block

et cetera

[bmandel in reply to Hidden]

How about atypical flutter?

[Hidden in reply to bmandel]

Sorry, Dr Google didn’t come up with a simple explanation of the difference between typical and atypical atrial flutter (AFL). I know that the latter is much less common. I believe atypical AFL is often associated with scarring of the atrial wall, but don’t quote me! The article linked below might help.

aerjournal.com/articles/atr...

[ETHEL103 in reply to Hidden]

Thankyou for your reply. My heart rate is really low now on 1.25 Bisoprolol 48 during the night and 50's during the day when pottering. I can feel a strange sort of vibration around my left ribs sometimes especially at night and wonder if my heart is to blame. Is it still beating really hard but being slowed by the AV down to my pulse rate.

[Hidden in reply to ETHEL103]

A heart rate of 48 is not necessarily a problem if you feel ok. On the other hand you might feel very tired or dizzy. Your slow heart rate could be due to a high level of AV block or your Bisoprolol or both. Pulse rate is not necessarily the same thing as heart rate. Hopefully your GP will be able to get to the bottom of your symptoms.

[Hidden]

DrDave01 (see his post above) invented the Kardia.

Whereas atrial fibrillation could be described as “irregularly irregular”, atrial flutter could be described as regular (fixed AV block) or “regularly irregular” (variable AV block)

[Overseventy in reply to Hidden]

My husband has AF and the Doctor said his was irregularly irregular and he has no symptoms . Mine was diagnosed as flutter and I have lots of episodes which are getting more frequent ( when I am well I am very very well but when in episode I feel terrible )

[ETHEL103 in reply to Overseventy]

Can I ask if you take medication. As I only learned I have this 2 weeks ago and talking to doc next Friday I'm not really sure what's going to happen. With the pandemic going on seeing a doctor is difficult isn't it. That's scary for me actually. I feel like my safety net has been snatched away and am just left to get on with it.

[Overseventy in reply to ETHEL103]

I have had funny feelings for about 10 years and was diagnosed about 4 years ago . The doctor has put me on statins , warfarin ,ramipril and bisoprolol,to be honest they don’t make me feel any better but they are a protection ( I might feel worse without them )

[ETHEL103 in reply to Overseventy]

Same as me had event monitor 10 years ago because of ectopics. On Statins, thyroid meds, blood pressure meds although I have stopped one as BP went too low. Bisoprolol 1.25 for 2vweeks.Hate taking all this strong meds.

[marcyh]

I'm interested in this question too. I have fast PAF with shortness of breath and sometimes have fast regular beats. No shortness of breath or dizziness and it only lasts 1 minute or two. I asked my EP about it last week and he said flutters don't show up on ECGs so I took that to mean he doesn't know. I looked online and it appears they do. Does it have to be a certain type of ECG? I believe I also have ectopic beats and to that he said they are responsible for AF 100% of the time. I didn't know that,

[ETHEL103 in reply to marcyh]

My flutters defo showed up. Sawtooth lines.

[Hidden in reply to marcyh]

In atrial flutter, a standard 12 lead ECG will show regular P waves, usually at a rate of between 260 and 340 per minute.These are best seen in standard Lead II and therefore show in the KARDIA six lead monitor.

I can pick up atrial flutter using the KARDIA one lead monitor, which in the usual position shows Lead I, but can also pick up Leads II and III, though sometimes it can be difficult to find the right positions for the monitor.

[lovetogarden]

Thanks for that info! Love having the 6 lead Kardia. And thx for sharing so much info on Twitter.