Hi everyone. Just joined so bear with me. I'm a 62 yo male with borderline T2 Diabetes. I've experienced AF symptoms on and off for about 20 years without really knowing what it was. A trip to A&E a few years ago with an episode following a very tiring trip to the States revealed the condition. Since then I've continued to experience occasional short-lived episodes where my pulse skipped thumped and jumped but never really raced or spasmed. In Sep I had a longer attack which lasted several hours and which I took to my GP. She arranged a 7day monitor which I had about a week or so ago. Nothing much happened for the 5 days the monitor actually worked apart from a couple of flutters which were recorded. Since then I've had pretty much a daily episode lasting from a few minutes to about 2 hours or so last night. Last evening and the day before involved spasms where my heart rate seemed to race for about 30 seconds to a minute or so. Like everyone else, I'm sure, I found it extremely scary and felt pretty helpless whilst it all played out. I've had a heavy cold and chest infection this past fortnight so I'm wondering if I should see my GP again or just try and tough it out til my results come back? The thought of AF spoiling Christmas is really bugging me. Any help, advice or reassurance would be MUCH appreciated.
New Member Question: Hi everyone. Just... - Atrial Fibrillati...
New Member Question
Try to stay positive and do stay well hydrated. At least eight glasses of water a day (Don't count tea or coffee. ) Avoid alcohol and over eating and you will be fine I'm sure. The only thing that has changed is your knowledge and we all know what a little of that is.
Why does so much water help.?
Our bodies are something like 75% water and none of us drink enough of it. Tea and coffee will both deplete water content. We need about two litres of water a day (more in hot weather) to have fully hydrated cells I understand.
How much do tea and coffee deplete water content ?
I've always read that they are part of our liquid intake.
When in AF many of us pee a lot more. I recently passed 1.2 litres in less than two hours.
I can't answer that question but if you read anything about hydration it is clear these drinks are diuretic so net loss. You pee a lot when in AF because of the enzyme released by the distressed heart to rid you of salt. Ergo you need to drink more, simple equation.
A sad tale of water. My ex neighbour (71) with no history of heart problems went into the kitchen on the way to bed for two glasses of water to take to the bedroom and fell down dead with them in his hands.
Hello and welcome to the forum. T’is early days yet and until you have a confirmed diagnosis, it is difficult to give constructive advice. That said, you would certainly find it useful to research as much as you can on AF and a good place to start is the AF Association webpage. Link below:
heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
Should it become evident that you have AF, some important things to remember. Provided it is controlled, initially by medication, it is not considered to be life threatening and it is important that you consider your position ie possible diabetes, regarding the increased risk of stroke. You will find references to CHADsVAC scoring which helps establish the need to be anti-coagulated. There are lots of benefits in trying to make lifestyle changes should this be necessary and try to avoid alcohol.
Because your heart appears to be playing up occasionally, it may be worth investing in a Kardia (google) which is a small device/app which enables to make accurate checks immediately you sense something is going on with your heart. Many cardiologists will use the reports Kardia produces as part of their assessment......hope this helps for starters, others I am sure, will also share their experiences.......
Thank you both. I forgot to mention that I'm already on Bisoprolol and Rivaroxaban (10mg each) together with Amlodipine to cover the stroke threat. I'm certainly considering a Kardia but can't help wondering just how many times I can pester my GP with its findings!
Hi and welcome. Any infection will trigger my AF so it may settle as your immune system kicks in but I would be very careful with alcohol - you will know immediately if it is a trigger for you and if not then you may be OK with taking a small amount. Overeating can also be a trigger so go very carefully but don’t allow it to spoil your Christmas.
As Bob says - really good hydration and plenty of rest - I also just posted something on colds/flu - worth a look as written by a metabolic cardiologist.
Personally I have found some supplements very helpful - in particular COQ10, Vits C & D and ensure your electrolytes are good through eating some healthy stuff - plenty of greens, foods high in Magnesium - if you can get Pure Coconut Water that is excellent in a green smoothie.
If you go to your GP - what would you want? Antibiotics or antivirals are not going to help much now. If you are anti-coagulated and have rate control then there is little more they will offer and unless you develop a very high heart rate, high fever, become very breathless, have chest pain or have been in AF for more than 24 hours and are not anti-coagulated then I doubt they will offer much more than reassurance. I tend to avoid GP surgeries and A&E, especially at this time of year as almost a guarantee of picking up something worse!
Hope that helps. CD
Hello.
Did your doctor recommend CoQ10? I have taken it and a handful of supplements for years.
But now I was told by some doctors to stop all supplements . I have done a lot of research and I finding pluses and minuses re supplements. CoQ10 is very good for the heart, so why don't the doctors understand this. In Japan and Germany it's used as a standard for heart health as is magnesium and fish oil. Granted I know vitamin E and Fish oil along with garlic and others are blood thinners .
Most foods do not affect anti-coagulants and nothing affects the viscosity of blood - I eat garlic, fish oils, ginger and turmeric daily in what many would consider large quantities and had no problems - but as food - not in supplemental capsules.
Magnesium - I avoid as that is contraindicated for me but most people thrive on it - but avoid if you have kidney problems or on Calcium Channel Blockers.
The trouble is that as all of our metabolisms differ it is impossible to say what the affect is on an individual without trials and no-one will trial supplements. The variables are endless so I am guided by my Lifestyle Doctors - who are both NHS doctors as well as trained Functional Medicine Doctors - have Nutritional Training, know the research, know what does and doesn’t go together and why. Unfortunately they are few and far between. You can take huge quantities of supplements but if they aren’t absorbed - waste of money at best and injurious to health at worst.
You can get blood tests for things like VitD directly from our local NHS lab - it’s about £40 and there is some evidence that taking VitD in large quantities is not always good so I take 400iu but most of us in the N hemisphere will be VitD deficient - but that’s a really easy one to test for.
The ONE supplement I have heard every doctor I have ever heard say it’s OK to take is COQ10 and may be helpful for anyone with a heart issue. Will they ever advise it, never because there haven’t been blind clinical trials so they have no evidence to quote.
Fish Oils were trialled as a part of a big UK GP trial to see if taking fish oils helped reduce risk but I don’t know the details.
I’m sure you could find it if you searched long enough.
Thank you for that. I guess, then, that I really just have to ride the storm out when I get an episode and not get too anxious? Can you tell me what dosage I would need for COQ10 and should I run any proposed supplements etc past my GP first?
GP’s rarely know too much about supplements but yes, I think it a good idea to always check for contraindications with a doctor or better still a Pharmacist as they will be aware of your medications and any contraindication.
Here in Canada our Doctors and Pharmacists don't seem to know much for sure.
I have been referred to the drug makers, who send me to my doctor who sends me to the pharmacist in a big circle.
In the UK a Pharmacist has access to a special data base where they can look up the info. If in doubt Webmed is quite a good, reliable and general web-site and I found this site very helpful. rxlist.com/drug-interaction...
The only issue I would have is that they can be over cautious with things like anti-coagulants with many supplements and not all anti-coagulants are equal so Wafarin will interact with some whereas NOAC’s may not.
It always pays to check and go cautiously but I’ve never personally experienced a problem - grapefruit is the only food I’ve come across that can interact with meds I take so I now avoid.
Before I got to the bit about the chest infection I was planning to ask you if you had been unwell in any other way lately. Any inflammation is likely to set off AF in susceptible individuals particularly in the abdomen/chest though a flare up of osteoarthritis sets me off too! I would suggest you see your GP to check out the chest infection if you haven't already - difficult to judge yourself how bad it is so I think that would be reasonable. I hope you feel better soon.
Thanks. The chest infection is pretty much cleared up now (after 2 weeks) apart from the remains of a chesty cough. I hadn't joined the dots on AF and that before but had my suspicions. Some really useful and welcome info and advice from all respondents for which I'm most grateful.
Strangely enough the borderline diabetes is much more of a risk to your health. Have a look at diabetes.org and see where that particular path can take you. The good news is that it can be stopped, shoved into remission and dispatched to a little dark corner somewhere to be filed away.
There are plenty of eating plans that you can use to get your blood sugars under control and, as your levels improve, you will probably find your weight improves, your exercise capability improves and your lifestyle generally becomes more active.
If you can get your weight down to a BMI of 22.5 and take your regular exercise you will transform your life. You might just find that your flutter starts to decline as well. It is not unknown for contributors to this site to get to the stage where their doctors take them off most of their medicines and they go on their way feeling and looking much better. Determination and perseverance is the key.
Hi Sebanelli, just to let you know that any form of illness can trigger af and will make it worse. A couple of years ago I had a chest infection which triggered my af and caused me to collapse three times, culminating in spending two days in hospital. As has been said af and diabetes are not a good mix so you should try to get your diabetes sorted. My younger brother has diabetes and has just started with proximal af, which is what I started with and is difficult to deal with. A little scary until you come to terms with it.
Hope all goes well over Christmas,and don't over eat or drink too much.
Regards Flyer.
My afib came and went for no apparent reason as well. Try this and see if it helps your afib out:
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After 9 years of trying different foods and logging EVERYTHING I ate, I found sugar (and to a lesser degree, salt – i.e. dehydration) was triggering my Afib. Doctors don't want to hear this - there is no money in telling patients to eat less sugar. Each person has a different sugar threshold - and it changes as you get older, so you need to count every gram of sugar you eat every day (including natural sugars in fruits, etc.). My tolerance level was 190 grams of sugar per day 8 years ago, 85 grams a year and a half ago, and 60 grams today, so AFIB episodes are more frequent and last longer (this is why all doctors agree that afib gets worse as you get older). If you keep your intake of sugar below your threshold level your AFIB will not happen again (easier said than done of course). It's not the food - it's the sugar (or salt - see below) IN the food that's causing your problems. Try it and you will see - should only take you 1 or 2 months of trial-and-error to find your threshold level. And for the record - ALL sugars are treated the same (honey, refined, agave, natural sugars in fruits, etc.). I successfully triggered AFIB by eating a bunch of plums and peaches one day just to test it out. In addition, I have noticed that moderate (afternoon) exercise (7-mile bike ride or 5-mile hike in the park) often puts my Afib heart back in to normal rhythm a couple hours later. Don’t know why – perhaps you burn off the excess sugars in your blood/muscles or sweat out excess salt?? I also found that strenuous exercise does no good – perhaps you make yourself dehydrated??
I'm pretty sure that Afib is caused by a gland(s) - like the Pancreas, Thyroid (sends signals to the heart to increase speed or strength of beat), Adrenal Gland (sends signals to increase heart rate), Sympathetic Nerve (increases heart rate) or Vagus Nerve (decreases heart rate), Hypothalamus Gland or others - or an organ that, in our old age, is not working well anymore and excess sugar or dehydration is causing them to send mixed signals to the heart - for example telling the heart to beat fast and slow at the same time - which causes it to skip beats, etc. I can't prove that (and neither can my doctors), but I have a very strong suspicion that that is the root cause of our Afib problems. I am working on this with a Nutritionist and hope to get some definitive proof in a few months.
Also, in addition to sugar, if you are dehydrated - this will trigger AFIB as well. It seems (but I have no proof of this) that a little uptick of salt in your blood is being treated the same as an uptick of sugar - both cause AFIB episodes. (I’m not a doctor – it may be the sugar in your muscles/organs and not in your blood, don’t know). In any case you have to keep hydrated, and not eat too much salt. The root problem is that our bodies are not processing sugar/salt properly and no doctor knows why, but the AFIB seems to be a symptom of this and not the primary problem, but medicine is not advanced enough to know the core reason that causes AFIB at this time. You can have a healthy heart and still have Afib – something inside us is triggering it when we eat too much sugar or get (even a little) dehydrated. Find out the core reason for this and you will be a millionaire and make the cover of Time Magazine! Good luck! - Rick Hyer
PS – there is a study backing up this data you can view at:
Thank you all for your kind replies. I changed my diet and lost about 3 stones over about 6 months when I was first diagnosed with borderline T2 Diabetes about 3 years ago. I've managed to keep my weight pretty much stable since and my GP says I'm managing my diabetes very well - I'm within reach of going into remission if I lose a bit more, which I intend to start doing after Christmas. Fortunately, I'm clued up enough to know what and how much to eat so there's no danger of over-indulgence over the next week or so! If I can shed another 2-3 stones I'll be a very happy bunny.
Hi again everyone. After 4-5 days of minor episodes I rang my GP surgery on Christmas Eve to discuss the results from my recent 7-day monitor (which only actually managed to capture a couple of very short-lived flutters). The doctor I spoke to is not my usual one and said that I don't have AF. I told her about the episodes after I'd had the monitor removed and she seemed quite insistent that these were normal(!) but that I may have "slipped in and out of AF" during a couple of episodes when my heart raced for about 30-60 seconds or so. Christmas has been ok apart from a couple of brief flutters but my rhythm went irregular again last night about 6pm and I've woken up again with it this morning.
I'm now really confused as to whether I have arrhythmia or AF. I don't get a racing irregular heartbeat (apart from brief bouts) during an episode but predominantly a raised irregular rhythm. I have no idea what's triggering them as they seem to stop as suddenly as they start and the conflicting info from my GPS isn't doing much for my nerves! Any further advice or words of wisdom would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
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