Is the brain the control box of the heart, or does the heart have its own control? I just wondered as I've had migraine since childhood.

[Terjo]

[Beancounter Volunteer]

Hi Terjo

Wow that's quite a question, and please accept a response without medical training.

Effectively the brain controls everything in the body, but it then "sub-contracts" some tasks to other parts of the body which control them theirselves.

In the case of the heart "electrical" system, this is controlled by something called the "sinus node" which is in the heart itself, and this regulates the heartbeat and tries to makes sure that parts of the heart beat in syncronisation. It is this node and the electrical pathways which spread out from it through the heart, which is doing something wrong when we have an A Fib attack. Sometimes it's the node itself, and sometimes the pathways.

And it is also this node, which in extremis, is effectively cut out of the system when someone needs to have a full pacemaker fitted to control their heart. (usually the very last procedure considered for A Fib)

Now as to your migraines, I don't think (IMO) there is a link between the two, but there does appear to be a link between vomiting and A Fib (If your migraines make you vomit which some do), and this is the vagal nerve, which so much seems to be written about with regard to A Fib, and why people associate attacks with over-eating, or just indulging. There is a lot of research into this at the moment, and I don't think it's reached full conclusions yet, but certainly one to watch for and keep an eye on.

Hope this helps

Ian

[Terjo]

Thank you very much for your clear reply. It explains a lot . The bit about being sick with migraine is something that I experienced as a child but grew out of in my late teens. Being sick was a relief and the headache stopped but when I stopped being sick ,at about seventeen years old ,the headaches carried on for days and were very severe. Now I get an attack rarely.

The AFs are very frightening but I am trying not to think about having one until it comes!! I don't know how you manage being in AF permanently I had a year like that before cardio conversion and didn't like it one bit! Sooo breathless. Best wishes Terjo

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Terjo]

Terjo, adding to what Ian says, the heart is part of what it known as the autonomic nervous system which operates regardless of any input from the brain although can be affected by things like the adrenaline we secrete when our brain sees danger.Other parts of the autonomic system are digestion which goes on without any brain input and breathing but see above re adrenaline. Both heart and stomach are linked to the vagus nerve so it is quite possible for something which affects one to affect the other. One might consider that migraine is to the brain what AF is to the heart as both are rogue electrical signals but there is at present no evidence to link the two although it is entirely possible that a predisposition to one may equally mean also one to the other. An interesting idea!

BobD

[Maitha]

Hi

I'm also suffering from migraine since I was a teenager

But my AF attacks started years after that

I noticed that migraine trigger AF attacks , also my doctor confirmed that

Reference to bean counter input in regard vomiting I had a sever AF attack after vomiting a year ago and another one recently also due to stomach virus which confirm that vomiting may trigger AF attacks

Maitha

[Bagrat in reply to Maitha]

I had migraine until I reached the menopause when it stopped. At least - the awful heads stopped but I still get episodes of nausea, bloat, diarrhoea and shaking accompanied by the need to lie down (which I call anxiety but fits with vagal symptoms I guess) . Have only had episodes of Paroxysmal AF for just over two years. I am a retired nurse but speaking as a slightly weird lay person who also suffers with anxiety, I have the feeling that I have never known when to slow down mentally so my body has always had to find physical symptoms to force a rest. When the classical migraine stopped, some other symptom had to step up!!

[Offcut]

I to have Migraine/very bad headaches and AF and was lead to believe they are not connected. But before I was on tablets for AF I used to give blood and never suffered a migraine / Headache for some months after and this was always a relief after nose bleeds which usually came after a very severe headache.

I watch a program on the TV a very long time ago and it showed a human intestine was still moving waste even after removal for some time after even though it was not attached to its host. The human body is a strange thing covered in skin to keep it all in.

[Japaholic]

I've jumped into this thread as it touches on two points I have considered with my own condition. I'm still learning about AF and after my latest bouts (both of which hospitalised me) I have been studying more.

First, prior to my first (of two) hospitalisation I had the worst gastroenteritis I can ever remember. Vomiting and diohrrea for three days straight. A few days later the AF came back with a vengeance.

I wasn't fully recovered from the gastric problem when the AF came but was on the mend.

Another topic touched on in this thread (by bagrat) which I have pondered upon for my case is any psychosomatic connection. A Doctor in A&E, the first consultant I saw and the cardiologist I finally saw all said that they thought the stress of my personal situation was contributing to my condition.

Now, as a psychology graduate this was interesting for me as what they were basically saying was that because of the stress (in my mind!) I was having physical symptoms.

Granted, the stress was enormous but at the onset of the AF it had past its peak. The gastroenteritis was a very small part of the pie when looking at the other issues.

Now, I always thought that as a open sort of person and having some solid mates I could talk through my stress. Apparently not!

Although the function of the heart may not be linked directly to the brain but I am exploring the possibility that the activity of the brain (with worry, stress and anxiety/depression) can have an impact on the heart.

I was talking to a senior nurse on the cardiac unit I was in as I was getting ready to be discharged.

She told me about something called "broken heart syndrome" which she says she has seen perhaps 10 times a year during her career as a cardiac nurse.

This is when someone with heart disease (or other serious heart issue) passes away their life partner passes away usually with a heart attack within 72 hours.

She said that usually the 2nd partner to go, upon examination, is usually found to have a healthy heart with no obvious damage or disease.

This hints at this too don't you think?

I'm not saying I totally go for it but it is an interesting topic for debate.

For my own situation now I am removed from 75% of the stress I do feel better.

Is it in the mind or is it that my cardiologist got the correct balance of drugs or a combination of the two?

Who knows for sure.

[Offcut in reply to Japaholic]

A Point raised there stress and AF I to have had more bouts when I am stressed. But I do not know if I am right but if you are stressed would the body not make for want of a better word a stress hormone or something that could chemically change the electric working of the muscle/heart. I also suffer from Gout but a few days after it flairs up I always have a very gooey chest?

[Japaholic in reply to Offcut]

I plan to ask my new cardiologist about the two issues I mentioned when I see them this week. Will report back.....

[Terjo]

Thought I should let you now that I had an AF last night that pounded away but luckily it stopped at 4 am . I'm getting up at lunchtime. Also apropos the migraine, when I was a teenager the act of being sick would clear my head and make me feel well again. When I got older I couldn't be physically sick and the head ache lasted much longer, days. Thanks for the answers I'll ask the doctor next time I see him.

I like the one about the skin holding us all together ! Terjo

[Barry123]

Interesting. I suffered migraine for30 years. They ceased when I started blood pressure treatment. Then my AF started. Last year I had a pacemaker fitted. On release from hospital I got blurred vision and numbness on my hand and face and readmitted with suspected secondary TIA but later diagnosed with massive migraine. Your post has gpt me thinking.