Why was this article removed... has the H... - Cure Parkinson's
Why was this article removed... has the HU Forum now become infected by the dreaded disease of politics?
I think that it's fair enough as it is off topic. Just make sure that your vitamin d levels are high to prevent the worst of covid. I had it back in March, and it was not a big thing for me, though my symptoms are progressing somewhat.
Covid 19 is a valid concern for PwP. A practical, immediately available means by which it may be mitigated are of interest to all.
Most of the covid19 threads have turned into conspiracy theory arguments and that one was heading down the same path. Personally I applaud it. There's a million places to read about COVID19 and relatively few active PD forums so i think the more PD content, the better.
“Heading down the same path” as a conspiracy theory? To a TDS addled mind it may appear that way... perhaps you can present a logical explanation for such a daft notion however(?).
Covid 19 is a valid concern for PwP.
You complain about politics being involved and then mention TDS for no apparent reason. Bizarre. I'm referring to some of the comments, which were definitely conspiracy theory-driven. Threads that go down that track provide zero value for PWP and actually deter (sensible) people from visiting the forum.
Nothing in that article was specific to PD. If you have information about COVID19 that is specific to PWP, I guarantee that the members and moderators will welcome it. Otherwise, people are quite capable of reading about COVID19 elsewhere since they, yknow, have access to the internet.
(Having skimmed through your last 40 I replies, ~23 of them have references to politicians or political parties. If you have an issue with the place being "infected by the dreaded disease of politics", I suggest the first place you look is directly into the middle of the nearest mirror).
One consideration.
There are several dozen excellent researchers on this forum who cover much, much more ground than anyone of us thereby producing a larger, higher quality pool of information.
In addition, there are a number of original home (type) remedies which have been postulated here by Art and others which is due to their research which would not otherwise be found and posted.
So, by deleting the thread, HU is depriving some of us of valuable information.
PS. Plus, they deleted an article by a very well reputed Yale scientist (because of various 'off-the-wall ' forum comments.) Doesn't make sense, to me.
I am concerned that part of their motivation was to pass judgment on the substance of the article, i.e., hydroxychloroquine works -- which I hope we would all agree they are not competent to do.
For example, if I showed up at the VA hospital with Covid and the doctors felt strongly that I take hydroxy chloroquine, in part because of this article, I might allow it.
“They deleted an article by a very well reputed Yale scientist (because of various 'off-the-wall ' forum comments.) Doesn't make sense, to me.”
Update: this paper has now been retracted by the authors, who say that they are “unable to vouch for the veracity of the primary data”. None of its conclusions can be regarded as valid.
thank you.
This forum doesn't have to serve your every need in life. Its not facebook. You are free to research elsewhere for COVID home remedies. Most covid threads end up as conspiracy theory dumspter fires (you are well aware of this), which deters people from coming back and providing valuable contributions.
I've no idea why they actually deleted it. The title in the post may not have helped ('certainly a crime' is a magnet for an awful discussion). I highly doubt someone judged the content of the article. I know that you have seen some of the outrageous stuff on here that HASNT been deleted.
You and I wont agree on this, so can we agree to disagree?
I prefer a live and let live philosophy which manifests itself as;
if you don't believe red meat is good for you, don't eat it. If you don't believe in dogfighting, don't do it. If you don't believe gay people should get married, don't marry one. If you don't believe in conspiracy theories, don't read them, but don't decide for the rest of us what we can do.
At its most fundamental level, it comes down to one person deciding what another person can/should read and I don't think anyone should be putting ourselves in a position of deciding what information others take in.
And the dogfighting is best discussed in the dogfighting forum. Like the PD is best discussed in the PD forum. And the COVID conspiracy theorie can he discussed in the COVID conspiracy theory forum.
It's kinda why forums have actual topics. Because people go there to discuss the topic about which the forum was created.
Would a solution be for us to create one thread for all Covid content?
I agree, there is certainly legitimacy in your position.
My neurologist said I’m in the high risk group for COVID because of my PD as well as my Asthma. My point is I’m very interested to hear of remedies or even how a person with PD faired who had COVID. I think it’s very relevant to this forum. If someone isn’t interested they can scroll right past it. Just my opinion.
I agree that legitimate info regarding the intersection of COVID and PD is very relevant. That wasn't what the thread was about, though.
In deciding they did not want to expose the audience to comments bepo, they deleted content from a Yale professor. Which is the greater value?
The Yale article is all over the internet. No one with a genuine interest in COVID will miss it. Since those people presumably seek out their COVID news from a source other than a forum dedicated to an entirely different condition. We arent talking about deleting news of the next big PD breakthrough.
A dedicated thread would be an improvement.
"At its most fundamental level, it comes down to one person deciding what another person can/should read and I don't think anyone should be putting ourselves in a position of deciding what information others take in."
No one is deciding what information you take in. No one is deciding what you can or should read. You are free to spend your entire day reading whatever you like.
If you were a member of a book club, would you go to a forum that you know was to be about Harry Potter and claim that you are being oppressed when the other participants expect that you discuss Harry Potter and not other books? Or would you just find another forum that better aligns with the books you have read?
Every forum on the internet is like this.
OK
You've convinced me. I was wrong.
My contribution to this discussion is to note that unmoderated public forums often become filled with garbage and unusable. For that reason it has been ages since I have been to the USENET. So I think we are stuck with having standards and moderation. Within that context, it is certainly fair game to discuss what those standards should be.
We do have a code of conduct: parkinsonsmovement.com/foru...
This mainly addresses issues of bullying and harassment. Perhaps it would be order to update it to include all reasons for posts to be removed.
OK.
Sound stuff. I just wish this forum, like others I belong to , would moderate visibly. "Post deleted" etc. This business of just vapourising stuff leads to confusion
I agree wholeheartedly. I spent way too much time earlier this morning searching for an old post that must have been deleted.
You've convinced me.
MBA, I fully agree!
In other words, you’re simply unable to produce a shred of logic to justify your portrayal of the long-used therapeutic Hydroxychloroquine (supported most recently by a group of America’s front line doctors) as “heading down the same path” as a conspiracy theory.
It pains me to be the bearer of bad news, but you’re displaying the classic symptoms of a raging case of TDS.
I said that "Most of the covid19 threads have turned into conspiracy theory arguments and that one was heading down the same path."
The "thread"
"Thread"
Do you know what a thread is?
But since we're being so frank, I'd say you're displaying the classic symptoms of having been repeatedly hit in the head.
Perhaps you should read what is actually written before you start frothing at the mouth over a politician that no one else has even mentioned.
Frontline doctors - like Stella Immanuel - who thinks people are being injected with alien DNA, that sex with demons is the cause of female problems and Yoga is demonic? I could not find the recent video of her on the steps of the Supreme Court, so this will have to do:
So she's a vocal nutter butter fanatical christian pastor/Dr, one of many frontline Drs who obviously followed the suit to copy the successful covid early prophylaxis treatment of Dr. Zelenko who originated his idea from S. Korean Drs. The below is a better video showing her speech instead of the mockery above, but it still ignorantly lacks the imperative discussion related to applying the key ZINC! All of the scientific "evidences" thus far have left out the Zinc and looked at HCQ and pharma drugs alone. I am baffled and disgusted by the FDA, big pharma, and the mainstream journalism.
youtube.com/watch?v=DkKz_sN...
More in-depth Dr. Zelenko video, discussing Zinc and quercetin.
youtube.com/watch?v=3ywj-PZ...
You have a point about the zinc. Unfortunately MDs are propagandized to believe that supplements cannot do anything and some, but not all, buy into that. I believe that is the reason why zinc was omitted from the hydroxychloroquine studies. A pity.
Thank you for posting. This well explained article by a competent dr changed my mind.
Why was it removed? My guess because its not to do with PD and had no practical value in a discussion of Covid treatments. It was listed under a post heading that said "this is a crime"
So I guess political
A better reason would be its horseshit
"I myself know of two doctors who have saved the lives of hundreds of patients with these medications, "
How does he know those doctors saved the lives? How does he know what the patient outcome would have been untreated? Worldwide over 10 million people have recovered from Covid 19 without being treated with hydroxychloroquine. And yet Risch knows that the outcome would have been different in this handful of cases where hydroxychloroquine was used at an early stage of the disease which in 10 million other cases resolved anyway
(I know there are concerns many apparently unaffected or "recovered" in fact have ongoing issues like inflamed pericardia, and a big chunk of "recovered" are nothing of the sort, with damaged organs, and ongoing disablement, but I was using round numbers, cos I know you struggle with sums). 10 million is close enough for jazz!
Risch is the author of the article he cites, not peer reviewed, and with a disclosure he has worked for companies which manufacture hydroxychloroquine. He states
"That article, published in the world's leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients"
The first of these "studies" was the 43 patient Marseilles "study" I first brought to the attention of this forum. It proved nothing - but legitimately raised interest. His other "proofs" are no better. By contrast every properly executed valid clinical trial concluded no benefit and increased patient risk.
So its horseshit
And political
Guess on that basis your thread isn't going to be here long either
Loads of total horseshit gets posted here and not deleted. I'd guess the provocative title and dodgy comments did it in.
thank you for pointing out all the flaws.
Blimey - you're kidding. I have better things to do with my life than discuss all the flaws in that article. Just a few obvious ones 
the article is simply this man's opinion. Studies using hydroxychloroquine as a treatment were stopped/discontinued because the risks outweighed the benefits.
Yes hydroxychloroquine is highly politicized in the most ugly way. I agree with the article as I have posted about the issue in detail over 4 months ago. If people want to believe in the corrupt mainstream media and the skewed pharma "studies," that's unfortunately their choice and no logic will change their mind for appeal to authority fallacy. The covid issue is highly relevant to PD and anyone who cares about their health and their increased risk factors as it touches on life/death. If you don't want to read about it, skip it and don't try to shun the issue off this "PD" forum full of caring community members who're interested in sharing myriad valuable information.
Rescuema I seem to recall that you are a physician. Explain to me this: HCQ is an immune suppressant. That is why it is prescribed for Lupus. I understand that at a certain stage of the COVID process, the body can attack itself, the so called Cytokine Storm, for which immune suppression becomes necessary. Hospitals now use dexamethasone for this. But why in the early stages of the disease would one want to suppress the immune system? Zinc is an immune booster, which can be made more available by quercetin. So where does HCQ fit into this picture? Let me also say that I am not a health professional, and I have no political agenda for or against HCQ. I also do not believe HCQ is harmful. I have known people who took it routinely as anti malarial when traveling in Southeast Asia, with no adverse effects.
Hi Reedboat,
I am not a physician - you may have gotten a wrong impression while Sharon was calling me "Dr" in a mocking manner. Zinc is important as you understand but its tightly controlled homeostasis or altered dyshomeostasis (as in diabetes, cancer, heart diseases, etc) is tough to rectify, and 30-40% of adult population is zinc deficient, especially the elderly. Quercetin along with HCQ are zine ionophores, but quercetin is deemed not as effective as HCQ to open up the zinc canal. For most, I'd suggest the safer over-the-counter quercetin as prophylaxis to help improve the zinc status, but once/if you're infected with Covid, you're better off starting HCQ immediately because you have less than a few days window to help your immune system before too late.
"Hydroxychloroquine is not generally considered an “immunosuppressant.” While it does change or “modulate” the immune system in various ways, it does not lead to an increased risk of infections and does not require lab monitoring."
to me right now, after watching a 48 min video on this very topic, I wonder why the LANCET pulled back a 'reviewed' study. as well as another that got 'pulled back' in another publication???
the video was done in front the SCotUS by about 10 or so practicing MDs and researchers that call themselves '' Americas FRONT LINE Doctors''.
Their position is that LOW DOSE hydroxychloroquine is not lethal, lessens the disease and in a lot of other countries is available OVER THE COUNTER without a Rx.
The NYTimes says it went viral. In my mind that label does not mean the "over tens of millions" agree, but it sure disturbed the dust in the pasture...
Not a conspiracy believer, but curious>>>> means there are questions unanswered...
Like science... it is check and re-check trying to replicate to get the same answer...
Replication > >> truth
because the study was not scientific and those of LANCET were wrong and the WHO has resumed research on hydroxycloroquine and this does not mean that it works and those who are against “conspiracy theory” are trolls who hope that in chaos no one will notice their personal affairs even if conspiracy theory doesn't exist. The goddess of discord Eris is doing a great job, in the end probably it will be a war and then we will "all die", LOL. of course I'm joking.
Ah Ha ... now how do we find the study results for study?
Just remembered a fact from a good friend , an Internist-retired just after my Bypass surgery, he had read a report that showed that 50% of Peer Reviewed Research on Cholesterol was based on bad or false data... fits the Lancet case..
Yup. hydroxycloroquine is the magic answer. No need to do anything difficult or inconvenient. Give it a really funny clever name like Kung flu, it'll go away by itself in the summer - just as soon as it's through ripping through the sunshine states). It's somebody else's fault anyway so that should really fix it
Believe that - 150000 dead and rising.
Follow expert advice (say Korea and Vietnam) combined-same population and seasons-300 deaths.
It's that curve shape thing
But you carry on believing hydroxycloroquine works and is the answer, and is being suppressed by the world wide conspiracy (not conspiracy-some other word for the collective suppression of the truth you know but all the worlds experts in the field suppress) and everything will be just dandy
Meantime I'm going to wear a facemask, socially distance and hope some effective vaccines are with us soon
Masks may work and the virus be the real deal and HCQ may be of benefit. Those things are not mutually exclusive. We've gone to extremes where just because someone is a horses butt means they could never be right. It's all bad or all good. In contrast everything should be evaluated individually for merit.
Yes of course that's right. hydroxycloroquine has been evaluated. It doesn't work and does more harm than good
It may be that it will be further evaluated because trials in progress were terminated early for bad reasons. And the resulting evaluation may be slightly different. This is a new problem and understanding and possible beneficial treatments are evolving - not standing still.
But it's at best going to be marginally helpful. And whilst your point is valid, it is also true that the reality is it , and the associated mistrust of the conventional wisdom of the vast majority of scientists and clinicians who best understand what's going on, is a dangerous distraction from what is needed to manage a global pandemic. And that is a unified approach to controlling the spread - and hopefully eventually eliminating the existence of the virus. It's a global problem - and needs a global solution. Not "easy-fix, anti-establishment" distractions
And it helps to identify best practice in that regard by looking for patterns in the results. Which was my point about Vietnam and Korea. But I could make a similar point about Italy, Spain, France the UK or New York state. That latter group were late to the party, and so suffered (or permitted) more deaths, but they learned and gained control
To paraphrase Einsteins definition a bit - the definition of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome.
"The same thing" in this context is assuming the virus is not a problem, and so doing nothing to try to prevent its spread
HCQ alone will not work. You must combine it with zinc and the earlier the better. This is the crucial keynote that big pharma cronies and idiot journalists fail to understand. There's not a single scientific study that has evaluated the efficacy of early treatment of HCQ (functioning as a zine ionophore) + zinc. There are myriad empirical data internationally showing that it works, yet current "science" won't accept such despite the urgency to save lives since they claim only clinical trial data [often poorly conducted] has any validity, dismissing all empirical real world evidences. Talk about real stupidity and the ones who choose to believe the controlled spoon-fed information. People are needlessly dying and the economy is sinking because of politics and medical arrogance.
