An often-made claim that e-cigarettes... - British Lung Foun...

British Lung Foundation
42,508 members48,925 posts

An often-made claim that e-cigarettes are '95% safer' is not valid.

2greys
2greys
69 Replies

The frequently cited claim that e-cigarettes are "95% less risky" or "95% less harmful" than combustible cigarettes is outdated, misleading and invalid -- and should no longer be made in discussions on the dangers of vaping, according to an editorial published today in the American Journal of Public Health by six leading experts on e-cigarettes and public health.

"The '95% safer' estimate is a 'factoid': unreliable information repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact," wrote the authors, including Thomas Eissenberg, Ph.D., co-director of the Center for the Study of Tobacco Products at Virginia Commonwealth University.

sciencecodex.com/often-made...

69 Replies
oldestnewest
M27nda

My doctors do not promote vaping at all or e cigs as they say they are just as bad

2 likes
Reply
Dave_H

Any foreign matter that is breathed in can have an effect on our lungs. As far as I'm aware no real trials have been made to disprove this.

4 likes
Reply
music

Thanks for this 2grays

Music

2 likes
Reply
hypercat54

Oh I guess I might as well carry on smoking then if vaping is just as bad!

2 likes
Reply
jackdup
jackdup
in reply to hypercat54

Or quit smoking and vaping. It’s not like you have to do one or the other.

2 likes
Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to jackdup

If all smokers could stop without aids to quit then they wouldn't have been invented would they?

2 likes
Reply
jackdup
jackdup
in reply to hypercat54

A lot of people using e-cigs or vaping have never smoked cigarettes. I don’t think they weren’t invented as a safe way to help smokers quit smoking, and now it appears lung disease may develop quicker with e-cigs than traditional cigarettes but they are too new and the long term effects will not be known for many years.

If you are inhaling nicotine through a traditional cigarette or an ecig how does it make it easier to quit using an ecig? If and when you stop using an ecig you will have to go through the nicotine withdrawal just the same as stopping traditional cigarettes so not sure how e-cigs would make it easier to quit?

My concern is all of the people telling other people e-cigs are a harmless way to get off of cigarettes are convincing people using e-cigs it is completely safe and may find out down the road it simply is not true but by then the harm may have already been done and they will be facing even more health issues than they may have otherwise faced.

1 like
Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to jackdup

No one is saying that vaping is totally safe as no one really knows. All I maintain is that vaping has got to be better and safer than cigarette smoking. There are lots of dangerous chemicals in smoking which are not in vaping, so commonsense dictates my viewpoint. Or do you think there are more dangerous chemicals in vape?

All smokers know that one of the problems in stopping is doing something with your hands, and some miss the sensation of smoke going into the lungs. Not all vapes have nicotine in so for some smokers this might be enough. For those whom it is not they can cut down the nicotine gradually and wean themselves off it more slowly.

Of course some people will abuse it but that is another issue.

1 like
Reply
music
music
in reply to hypercat54

Hi hypercat54

I agree has I know many older people that have vaped for a few years now and don't have any problems that they did when they were smoking tobacco for years.

Music

1 like
Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to music

Thank you music. The voice of reason. I too know a number of smokers who quit or drastically down their use by vaping and are feeling much better. The statistics bear this out. x

nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs...

Reply
Nickcv
Nickcv
in reply to hypercat54

I'm one such person who after smoking for over 40 years and multiple failed attempts at giving up finally managed to by switching to vaping. I gradually reduced the nicotine content from 24mg to 2mg. I switched to vaping shortly before being diagnosed with emphysema and certainly feel an improvement in my lung health compared to smoking. The past four years my FEV1 has remained stable.

In the UK vaping is far more heavily regulated than some other countries and in particular the USA where the recent spate of deaths were caused by vaping cannabis derivatives and vitamin E. Also in the US the allowed nicotine content is three times that permitted in the UK. A google search relating to the safety of vaping in the UK shows up many articles from the last quarter of 2019 that still consider vaping to be 95% safer than smoking tobacco. Considering 90% of COPD sufferers are either smokers or ex smokers I get annoyed at these types of posts that attack other peoples lifestyle choices and at times there's an element of hypocrisy.

A quote from the linked article says the following : The fact is: we don't know whether e-cigarette use is as lethal as combustible cigarette use, less lethal than combustible cigarette use, or more lethal than combustible cigarette use. So in effect nothing conclusive is proven.

1 like
Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Nickcv

So you do not know that it is safe, there is no proof that it is yet carry on? Public Health England will shortly be reviewing their stance on safety. Public Health England is a quango body appointed by the government, they are not medical professionals, yet people blindly believe them.

The government are not to believed on face value, it is not beneath them to lie, not so long ago they took this country to war on the basis of a lie.

Reply
Nickcv
Nickcv
in reply to 2greys

On the Sept 17th 2019 Dr Nick Hopkinson, medical director at the British Lung Foundation claimed vaping to be 95% safer than smoking. There are a multitude of articles from various sources that have nothing to do with Public Health England which make similar claims. You seem very selective in what you post concerning vaping. Perhaps you'd do better to just concentrate on posting articles concerning break throughs in treatments for respiratory disorders rather than attacking others which serves no purpose other than to demonize them for their lifestyle choices.

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Nickcv

I do not demonise anyone, period. I just respond to their misconceptions. Just show me the proof, the research that proves it to be safe will you, not just what anyone says, the actual research. Whether you like it or not I will continue to post ALL research to do with the lungs, the good and the bad.

Reply
powderpuff

The advent of vaping had absolutely nothing to do with smoking cessation Bev! The ‘driver’ was nothing less than providing users with the ability to continue drip feeding an addiction in seemingly more acceptable ways - both from social & health perspectives.

1 like
Reply
hypercat54

In that case all smoking aids are then, from Champix to patches!

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to hypercat54

Rather a foolish statement there. You cannot tar all on the basis of one bad example.

Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to 2greys

I was responding to what powderpuff said. All smoking aids are tools developed to help smokers to quit, and vaping is just another one. It's more foolish to my mind for you to keep cherry picking studies demonising vaping, and not looking at the positive aspects of it.

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to hypercat54

The only positive effect is if it is used responsibly and to quit vaping after quitting smoking has been achieved. Of course that does not happen because it maintains the addiction to Nicotine which is why quitting smoking is so hard in the first place.

Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to 2greys

Well the same is true for all smoking aids eg patches and others also have nicotine in. You can't demonise an invention because some misuse it!

Reply
Apeter7874

Vaping is not safe. I’ve read on news of people dying from vaping. Sucking cigs or vaping is damaging to the lungs. I’m a former smoker so I understand how hard it is to quit an addictive substance. Just. plain ole common sense warrants quitting both.

4 likes
Reply
Inamoment

That was an ingredient in american cannabis vapes. Not sold here. The usa doesn't bother with regulations. All the anti vape stuff comes from the usa as far as i can see, wouldn't have anything with tobacco company lobbying would it?

2 likes
Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Inamoment

This report has nothing to do with cannabis/marijuana. It deals with the base ingredients, common on both sides of the pond. Read it again.

2 likes
Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to 2greys

Someone said people had died, i was replying to that

Reply
Apeter7874

Yes. Died from e cigs.

3 likes
Reply
Inamoment

Cannabis ones in the usa

Reply
Apeter7874

Not only cannabis. Studies continue as to the strange new lung disease happening due to vaping. Vaping is relatively new. Studies take a long time. It’s surely in ones best interests not to smoke or vape.

4 likes
Reply
RedSox
RedSox
in reply to Inamoment

Do your homework! It’s not just in USA !

3 likes
Reply
Schmicter
Schmicter
in reply to 2greys

Young kids and cannabis users are adding thc and other stuff to vape liquid all over the world...not just in the USA

4 likes
Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to Schmicter

Where is your evidence?

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Inamoment

Evidence for this can be obtained at many vape shops. One local to me, sells all the paraphernalia to make your own and the information on how to do it. I will supply their address via PM if you like to visit them and see for yourself. Before you say report it, it is actually not illegal for them to do this. You obviously lead a very sheltered life not to know that this is going on right under your very nose.

Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to 2greys

Just looked one up. They sell flavours and nicotine. I don't understand why you are so exercised over vapes

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Inamoment

They do not advertise it, you have to go in and ask. Advertising it would only attract the attention of the authorities into legislating against it, affecting profits. Are you really that naive?

Reply
Schmicter
Schmicter
in reply to Inamoment

Common sense! You really have to be born yesterday to think drug users won't adulterate vape liquids to use to get high...all over the world. Or maybe just the ones in the US know how...it is a secret for the rest of the world?

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Schmicter

The know how is freely available on the web as well.

Reply
powderpuff

The thing is & this is only my personal take, vaping is not designed to be a healthier option it’s just another way of feeding addiction in a seemingly more acceptable way. You’re still ingesting rubbish which surely has no place in lungs?

5 likes
Reply
Inamoment

It's 95% less rubbish than cigs, that's the point

1 like
Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Inamoment

If the base to the liquid makes up 90% of it and that base is harmful, then your argument falls flat on it's face. Which is what the report is actually saying!

5 likes
Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to 2greys

So what the studies are showing is that the ingredients in general vaping are more or at least as dangerous as nicotine, tar, formeldahyde etc?

It must be something as poisonous as cyanide, potassium acid, snake venom or something worse?

1 like
Reply
powderpuff

The trouble is vaping fluid characteristics can change drastically once heated, even the vaping appliance / coil can be affected by temperature.

1 very small study replicating the vaping process in lab environment found metal deposits in the lungs of animal subjects. Not conclusive I’ll admit but why would anyone want to test that?

Reply
powderpuff

Well, tobacco smoking would be preferable to smoking Heroin or Crack but it doesn’t make it any safer!

I don’t like the 95% figure - it’s to suggestive of there being almost none or only a small risk. That’s pretty bold with such a relatively new phenomena & normalises vaping to much for my liking.

Smoking, in the main being normalised accounts for why this forum has to exist in the first place.

4 likes
Reply
Dragonmum
Dragonmum
in reply to Inamoment

Nailed it in one - I just can't be bothered. The USA research has been flawed by the vested interests of Big Tobacco & Big Pharma since they realised that we in Europe had switched to vaping in our millions. Public Health England, whose research is good enough for me, came to the 95% safer conclusion; plus I switched to vaping 10 years ago on the 28th of this month and have vastly improved lung health and a drastic cut in meds. What all this scare-mongering does is to drive people back to inhaling tobacco smoke - that is the killer, not nicotine.

4 likes
Reply
hypercat54

100 pc agree and well said. x

2 likes
Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Dragonmum

Will you believe the BMJ then?

bmj.com/company/newsroom/e-...

What you do not take into account is that 95% of vaping products are produce by the tobacco companies even though at first glance they are produced by other companies but dig deeper and those companies are subsidiaries of the big tobacco companies. As for Public Health England it is just a quango of government appointed so called experts who produce reports that the gov want to hear, they are paid by the gov. and in fear of their comfortable well paid jobs, the tobacco companies are petitioning the MPs in the same manner as years ago. There is no medical or scientific evidence that vaping is safe at all. The base ingredients used may be safe with being consumed in foods but not to be atomise and inhaled into the lungs. For example stone dust can harmlessly pass through the digestive system, but inhaled stone dust can cause Silicosis, Lung Cancer and Emphysema.

It is only a few days ago I posted this. The evidence is stacking up against vaping

hopkinsmedicine.org/news/ne...

Nicotine junkies are also causing harm to their hearts and increasing their blood pressure, both of those can be deadly.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/911...

Why take the risk. Do you not realise that it is the Nicotine addiction that is altering the way that you think, coming up with any argument not to quit that addiction, just as with the arguments that smokers use not to quit. All the denial in the world will not save your health.

1 like
Reply
powderpuff

I’m pleased to hear you have improved lung disease, in your position I might also be singing the praises of vaping! However, yours is not a theory I’ve heard anywhere before so I’ll not take it as representative or medically sound advice along with your apparent endorsement of vaping.

I actually find it pretty perverse that anyone thinks it in anyway acceptable to seemingly promote any kind of smoking on a BLF forum.

1 like
Reply
Dragonmum

There is no smoke involved so I am clearly not promoting smoking.https://www.mdedge.com/familymedicine/article/97434/pulmonology/respiratory-harm-reversal-seen-asthmatic-smokers-e Sorry, this link doesn't seem to be working but there are a lot more, will try to locate.

Reply
powderpuff

No, you’re promoting vapor consisting of particulate matter, even my car isn’t allowed to spew that out!

Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to Dragonmum

It is the actually tobacco companies that produce both the hardware and the liquid, financially they do not lose out. Vaping is cheaper only because the high level of tax leveled on tobacco is not applied to vaping.

Reply
Inamoment

It isn't. The article says

Recent evidence also suggests that vaping harms users. One recent study cited in the article found that "[e-cigarette] aerosol constituents could injure the respiratory system or worsen preexisting lung disease

That's not evidence in any shape or form.

The article also also says about 60mg nicotine content, our maximum is 18. The usa has very low standards for everything, including, as we may find out shortly, food

Reply
RedSox
RedSox
in reply to Inamoment

Can you please explain what is meant by USA having “low standards” for everything ? Does include our world class learning institutions?, Universities ? Research centers ? Organic farms ? Medical standards ? Interstate highway system ? Please refrain from making idle off the shoulder remarks it is unkind . If you personally believe vaping and e cigarettes are okay that’s fine and that is your choice . Please base your opinions on our food and food supply on facts . This is not a forum for nationalism . We are here to exchange ideas on how we can assist one another. Not insult each other

6 likes
Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to RedSox

The usa sold vapes containing ingredients banned in europe. 43 people died from vapes which are illegal here, 400,000 die from tobacco

1 like
Reply
RedSox
RedSox
in reply to Inamoment

What is your problem? Actually I don’t care if you vape or not it’s none of my business. What does concern me is the food comment I have family in the organic farm business and I don’t appreciate your comment on American food . How would you feel if I commented on something inept in your country? Like I said I don’t care that you defend vaping . Have a drag on me and stop bashed USA 🇺🇸

5 likes
Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to RedSox

I'm sure the organic food is fine, it's the cheap stuff that's problematic.

Reply
RedSox
RedSox
in reply to Inamoment

Have a nice day

1 like
Reply
Cateran
Cateran
in reply to RedSox

I quite agree with you RedSox.

The USA has some magnificent universities, not least on the east coast. This may seem a bit off-field observation and certainly not an example of nationalism, but your Ivy League colleges are in part examples in their founding history of the effect of the Scottish Enlightenment thinkers such as William Robertson, David Hume and Adam Smith. Their intellectual influence is rooted in the American Revolution and the Founding Fathers. You have every reason to be proud of their influence.

2 likes
Reply
Inamoment
Inamoment
in reply to Cateran

It's got nothing to do with universities. It has a lot to do with a lack of food and consumer standards. Compare the usa and uk food poisoning data.

This 'research' which only seems to appear from the usa and is so vague you couldn't formulate any policy from it looks very much like tobacco lobbying.

Reply
Ern007

Hi 2greys.

I think although I stopped smoking some 30 years ago - I think cigarettes are safer than e cigs.

For a start they don't blow op, more important is the VAPE - Cigarettes have tar as the worst ingredient,

With e cigs it's constantly puffing of steam and people seem tp use vape more often that light up.

I am sure a close friend of mine with upper COPD died because of vapes = She smoked and never looked great but after switching 100% from cigarettes to e cigs she puffed all the time.

She looked more unwell as days went buy, then she was admitted to resportary ward, came home I suppose vaped again readmitted and died. I blamed in part the e smokes. - My reckonh is advanced COPD has an element of heart failure and teh last think you need, is more fluid on the lungs,

E Cigarettes bring their own problems - I would either stop smoking or not, not creating another problem turning to vaping... Just my opinion as 1005 no doctor, but I I really do believe what I have typed..

2 likes
Reply
hypercat54
hypercat54
in reply to Ern007

There are far worse ingredients in cigarettes than tar! Formaldahyde for one...

Reply
Ern007
Ern007
in reply to hypercat54

I know, cigarettes are a cocktail of chemicals but - My sole point was not to promote cigarettes but to point out E Cigarettes have their dangers. Examples fire and even explosions. More to the point elderly people with severe lung problems are inhaling steam with some chemicals. Fluid on the lung people with lung problems don;t need IMO. My friend stop smoking and started vaping and died - Maybe coincidence and maybe vaping is not the safe option to cigarettes. Only way is to stop smoking or inhaling anything.

2 likes
Reply
Dragonmum
Dragonmum
in reply to Ern007

The old treatment for asthma was a towel over the head and a bowl of boiling water so you could inhale - guess what........????? I'd also point out that until people started inhaling certain illegal substances, in a place that shall be nameless, no-one ever died from the proper use of e-cigarettes. Putting batteries in a pocket along with your loose change can cause you problems of course, but only idiots do that.

Reply
Ern007
Ern007
in reply to Dragonmum

Dragonmum With respect the steam and towel treatment for Asthma nothing like Vaping. People I have known who vape - vape constantly unlike the head under a towel treatment for COLDS and Asthma. Asthma also is not like COPD with damaged lungs and possible heart failure. As for Cannabis which I think you are referring to, it takes tobacco to use that stuff so double trouble.....My sole point is my friend who had upped COPD stopped smoking started vaping, withing months admitted to hospital and died not long after.. Vaping in a healthy person I would not even guess, I don;t know..

3 likes
Reply
RedSox
RedSox
in reply to Ern007

Agree I believe if there are folks on here with emphysema in their seventies or eighties who still vape I’m sure they cannot even comment . Honestly I doubt it . I know folks with Asthma in 70s that vape or use e-cigarettes but I would bet not a single one of them has emphysema. If so I would love to hear from them

3 likes
Reply
2greys
2greys
in reply to RedSox

Not from me either, I cannot stand steam from drawing a bath, the windows and even the door have to be open to vent it out. Emphysema (COPD) is an obstructive condition and is nothing like Asthma, a restrictive condition. E-cig vapour is not even steam, it is atomised oils, there is no comparison. Oil and water are not the same, period, they do not even mix.

3 likes
Reply
Ern007
Ern007
in reply to 2greys

Good point. oil even worse. Last think an emphysema sufferer wants is more obstruction.

2 likes
Reply
Ern007
Ern007
in reply to RedSox

I am 74 and have emphysema and I need a balanced atmosphere - By that no dry heat and no humidity. 2 greys pointed out vaping oils atomised, even worse...

2 likes
Reply
MELNEL

I had problems with the vapour, I was endless coughing it was terrible when I tried them, more than I smoked a cigarette. Yes my doctor also told me not to use the vapour. I had found other methods to stop.

You don't know what damage those aromatic flavour does in your lung's.

2 likes
Reply
2greys

Let's be perfectly frank here.

All the the arguments put forward in favour of vaping are really really just history repeating itself, back from the 40s and 50s with cigarettes. Back then they were promoted as healthy, even doctors endorsed them. Governments endorsed their use as well going as far as actually giving them away to armed forces personnel. All that time they could not prove them as being safe just as vaping has not proven to be safe. Along came the sixties and the proof started to emerge that smoking was detrimental to the health. The tobacco companies spent billions trying to suppress the evidence, fighting it all the way, even manufacturing evidence to the contrary.

Most of the vapes are manufactured by companies that are subsidiaries of the tobacco companies, this is done deliberately to distance the vapes away from the tobacco companies bad reputations. It does not make any difference, they are still making and keeping people addicted to their products, thereby making an exorbitant profit from gullible people, keeping up their business model going. Let's be clear there is absolutely no evidence to the safety of vaping, just a superstition made by a government appointed body of non-medical people. Do you really think that all those lies and fake research are not going on yet again. The tobacco companies got away with it once, they will try again to protect their business model and profits.

If people wish to partake in consuming nicotine on an informed basis then that is fine with me, be it on their own head. I will not stop posting research that is contrary to Public Health England's view that they are 95% safe. I will not suppress the growing evidence, that would hardly go with my principles of keeping people informed to make those sort of decisions regarding their health. I would be re-missive of my duty to my fellow man to do otherwise, whether some people like it or not.

1 like
Reply

You may also like...