In the three years I've participated here I see many posts from new folks that do not include their age. Those of us with diagnosed CKD pipe up and offer suggestions for diet, labs, readings and more. All the advice can help to calm or scare new folks.
We often fail to ask a simple question though, How old are you?
Age related kidney decline is not CKD and folks in their 70s and 80s with a eGFR in the 40s and 50s, with no underlying disease, are unlikely to ever sit in a dialysis chair or have their kidney function lead to death.
While we do know, and many of us have experienced medical gaslighting, someone who is already past life expectancy with an eGFR of 57 probably doesn't need to worry about progressive CKD. Their Dr. is probably right to say, "nothing to worry about, completely normal." This can be difficult to hear. At 61 I don't like to think that I have 15 years left. I have way to many books to read and yarn to knit or crochet! SABLE - stash beyond life expectancy. My goal is to get to 76! Anything beyond that would be wonderful!
See the following medical journal articles.
"The study findings suggest that the current CKD definition that does not consider age-related eGFR decline may inflate the burden of CKD by classifying many elderly people with normal kidney aging as having a disease." "65 years or older and had eGFR of 45 to 59 mL/min/1.73 m2 with normal/mild albuminuria. In this latter group, the risks of kidney failure and death were of similar magnitudes to those of controls without CKD." Accounting for Age in the Definition of Chronic Kidney Disease jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...
I am 83 and do have pre diabetes. I was diagnosed at CKD level 3b and put on a CKD diet. I think it has not only help my kidney function but is good diet for elderly. Thanks for sharing the links.
Health diets can impact many conditions. Anything we can do to maintain overall health is great. I just don't want people to be panicking at age related kidney decline. The stress it can cause may harm someone's health more than just accepting aging and doing the best we can to stay healthy.
I think this is a great post. Age related kidney decline is one thing. But the truth is, if your kidneys go from 80 to 40 over a couple of years, no matter what the age, there is something wrong. And when you get older, you will find that you often get dismissed. I know at 70, what I thought 70 would be like, mentally and health wise, is not different from 40...or 30... But the doctors do not think so. Age discrimination is rampant. Yes, I am going to fight for a transplant, even at this age. Yes, I am going to fight for the best medications out there.
I hear what you are saying about a natural digression of the kidney. Even at 70 or 80 with a Egfr of 40 or lower, there is something going on.
The first study found that if you are over 65 and have a eGFR of 47-59 you have the same life expectancy as someone with a eGFR of over 60. There isn't a current age related score so many people worry when their charts flag abnormal with a eGFR below 60. I'm not a Dr., but from reading the articles, it seems like people 65+ with a eGFR between 47 and 59 need to ask themselves - Was this a dramatic drop in eGFR? Was this a one time only reading or did you get the same results over 3 months? Do you have protein in your urine? What is your Urine albumin-creatinine ratio (uACR)? Do you have any underlying conditions associated with CKD? High blood pressure, diabetes, family history, and so on. Not all doctors are gaslighting. If I were 76 with a eGFR of 57 and no other issues I'd be jumping for joy!
We have to be careful about appearing to diagnose people...of any age...they should be conversing with their Physician...We should only be talking of our experiences and what we felt help us
Nowhere did I attempt to diagnose. I shared medical studies about age related kidney decline. I'm tired of seeing people panic unnecessarily. I think my response is better than jumping to I'll pray for you, or be sure to take my diet advice. People need facts, not prayers.
When someone tells me they are going to pray for me what I hear is someone thinks I'm so sick that prayer is my only hope. If I were 76, with no underlying conditions, a eGFR of 57 and a Dr. whose told me it's normal but I'm worried my Dr is missing something and the response I get is "I'll pray for you." that would make me very afraid and worried I was about to die.
what a fantastic post...I am 76 egfr fluctuates between 40 md 50... and I am fine with that. I considermuself in extra innings ...other labs are great and what the nephrologist said it will probably be my heart. my dad went on dialysis in 60 and died of heart ttack at 70..
I eat relatively healthy and n no mat because i love animals and dont eat my friends...i love jelly beans ...and should drink more water and try to enjoy every day i am above ground...
I disagree but that may be a personal thing. My mum's medical team, including nephro, have not been very helpful so we have had to rely on our own scientific research alongside Nutritional Therapy training.
The nephro's only contribution besides arranging tests is to endorse our efforts by stating "carry on with whatever you're doing". Strange that he's never asked what that is but hey we may need him sometime - hopefully not. 🤞🤞
How did you get back in the group? This dude is a salesman who posts pretending to suggest great articles - written by himself and his father. He is a modern snake oil salesman.
I've been told that I was disrespectful in calling Oliver a modern snake oil salesman. I'm sorry for using that phrase. Oliver Connaughton is a private nutritional therapist in the UK who attended the College of Naturopathic Medicine training program. This school trains people in nutritional therapy, herbal medicine, acupuncture, homeopathy, chef, vegan natural chef and health coaching. It is not a medical school in the same way medical schools are accredited degree granting institutions in the US. In the US medical schools are degree granting institutions that grant MD, DO, PhD, MPH, MS-PA, DDM, and sometimes MSN or BSN degrees. In the past Oliver has posted links in this forum to articles written by himself and his father that are posted on his professional website. He fails to give his name or share that he is the author of the blog articles, or share that he sells his services as a nutritional therapist. He charges 389 pounds to make you a better version of yourself. "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam." Given that Oliver does not disclose he is the author of articles he promotes I used the phrase. I'm tired of his attacks on me in this forum. Feel free to review his weight loss website ocnutrihealth.com and compare it to the peer reviewed medical journal articles I've posted here. You can decide for yourself who has extreme views.
Re your penultimate sentence, there don't appear to be any medical journals on weight loss (the specialism to which you rightly refer for oc nutrihealth) in this thread. Only kidney disease which I've speed-read - is that what you meant?
Im interested in reading weight loss articles written by medics if thats what you meant.
Note:
1. The blog on CKD on the oc nutrihealth website was written by Dr Connaughton.
2. Besides attending CNM, you omitted that a distinction was obtained.
Who is Dr Connaughton please? is that you? If so, could you explain what field of study your doctorate was awarded for? And from which academic institution?
Dr Danny Connaughton is a scientist with 40+yrs research experience. His PhD is in Materials Science and supported by previous qualifications eg 1st Class Honours Physics. He is not medically qualified but has used his research experience to investigate various medical conditions. His blog on CKD, published on oc nutrihealth website, is a personal blog but underpinned by scientific research into the condition since he discovered that his wife had it in 2010.
Note that it is recognised that a PhD is a superior qualification to those held by most medics eg GPs. Furthermore Dr Connaughton's was obtained part-time whilst employed at UK Atomic Energy Authority.
Good for you for letting everyone know that he is self serving , and the fact that he is not honedy about his intentions on this site with well meaning people! There is always someone who will ruin a good thing! And the information about normal aging delcine in EGFR is helpful. I (81) do have CKD with low numbers , but my husband’s numbers are more in tune with aging ( 82) .
I agree...but we don't know that they shouldn't panic...A decline in kidney function , at any age, could be just age or it could also be a kidney stone, blockage or cancer and they should discuss with Provider and the Provider can tell them if he thinks its serious
Symptoms should also be taken into account here. For example, frequent UTIs and pyelonephritis can be ureter damage, stones, etc.
Quality of life matters, regardless of age. You can have symptoms of CKD for years— increasing, crushing fatigue, frequency, recurrent infections, etc.—without any diagnosis. If you are elderly, and your doctor has chosen to ignore your fairly mild symptoms, then what? Your doctor suddenly takes your case seriously when you hit a certain age and your function declines rapidly? Seems unlikely as you take the theory through to practice.
There’s nothing wrong with giving some of your time and kindness to newbies who aren’t expecting you to treat them, but they don’t know the first thing about CKD. They aren’t aware there’s many different types, causes, and treatments. That age can factor in.
There is also nothing wrong with researching without diagnosis, and it saves lives. We are a part of that research, a reaching out for commonality and community, as well as for the more factual but impersonal research.
Besides, when you start to think in statistics, what you are really saying is the majority will react and suffer this way—those are the horses. The normal outcomes we’ve come to know. But what about the others left behind? The zebras. The ‘rare’ ones who don’t react normally physically. If there’s 3% of 1,000 people who react as zebras, that’s not many people, so let’s forget them. No, let’s not!
If questions are asked then I am gonna assume they really want to know. Usually. You get a feeling for those that just really would like some straight answers, even if it doesn’t turn out to pertain to them later on. Support comes in many forms and information is my absolute favorite! Even when it doesn’t end up mattering in the scheme of things, kindness and empathy—well, I happen to believe they matter a great deal.
This post makes me happy! I will be 87 this month and my last GFR was 55, so I guess that I'm doing well. I do wish that NSAIDS weren't so bad for the kidneys because I have severe degenerative arthritis, but such is life.
Congrats for doing so well. I'm just trying to share medical journal articles so people with normal, age related kidney decline, with no underlying conditions that could lead to accelerated decline in kidney function, aren't scared into thinking they are so ill that only prayer can save them now. Needlessly scaring people isn't helpful.
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I mentioned, on a previous post, that it would be helpful to know the exact nature of the chronic disease you suffer from. In other words, "CKD" encompasses more than one disease, or cause of kidney failure. Knowing which specific condition makes it easier to offer advice.
That's one of the ways doctors try to tell the difference between normal age related kidney decline and CKD. The complete absence of other known causes of CKD. An elderly person with an eGFR in the 40s and 50s, no high blood pressure, no diabetes, no lupus, no history of all the various CKD triggers point towards natural age related decline and not true CKD. The studies I posted point his out and lobby for a creation of a eGFR scoring system to account for natural aging. Someone over 65 with an eGFR above 47 and no underlying conditions probably doesn't have CKD. When an elderly person posts here, saying my eGFR is 57, I have no underlying conditions and my Dr says my blood results are fine. Maybe we shouldn't jump on a bandwagon offering ton of treatment advice and offers to pray for them. While many of us have experienced medical gaslighting, I don't think that is what's happening in all cases. I originally got very angry when my mother's primary care stopped ordering mammograms and colonoscopies for her. He very calmly walked me through his logic. Both tests were very painful and difficult for my mom. He asked me if I thought my mom would survive treatment if the tests uncovered cancer. With advancing dementia and my mom's need for 24/7 care, there is no way my mom could have handled chemo and surgery. I finally realized he stopped ordering those tests because he cared for my mom's comfort at the end, not because he was gaslighting her.
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