Following yesterday’s post, I’m puzzled why we need to obsessively drink so much water for good cardiac health if we have atrial fibrillation and take anticoagulants.
I try to drink 2 litres a day but it’s becoming very inconvenient, because of urinary frequency, urgency and nocturia.
No gp or consultant has ever mentioned the importance of staying hydrated during my 15 years of having AF. I’ve never read any research into it let alone that conclusion.
Intuitively the advice to stay hydrated to prevent left atrial thrombus seems correct but I’m struggling to understand the science (physics) of the interaction between blood, water and anticoagulants in this context.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts, whether your consultant has spontaneously advised you to drink a lot of fluid, rather than respond to your question.
Also whether you could point me to relevant research or advice from the experts ….
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Rambler398
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You don’t. You need about 2 litres of fluid which can be in food and drink, though drinks such as alcohol or very high caffeine drinks which can cause dehydration don’t count. I was horrified recently when a friend whose husband had kidney and urine infection problems complained that it was difficult to get him to drink more - ‘he has three cups of tea and two Cokes a day’. Fairly sure Coke wouldn’t count either 😂
It has nothing to do with anticoagulants. Not sure where that came from.
Dehydrated cells do not conduct properly. Many people seem to think that because AF often causes lots of weeing then not drinking will help but that is not so.
When my heart stopped during a cardioversion I am sure this was because I had been "nil by mouth" for some twelve hours waiting in a hot MAU. After the period of CPR they put some 2 litres of fluid IV into me before my BP rose above 90/50. When they first got my heart started again it was 60/30.
"Consuming too much or too little water may increase the risk of A-fib.
Dehydration and overhydration can both lead to an imbalance or lack of electrolytes, such as sodium and potassium. This may trigger A-fib symptoms. Dehydration may also make it easier for blood to coagulate, increasing the risk of blood clots.
Dehydration can occur during exercise, hot weather, and illness that causes vomiting or diarrhea. Overhydration can affect people who drink too much water, for instance, while exercising."
It’s very easy to become dehydrated without realising and by the time you feel thirsty, it’s too late! A good guide is to look at the colour of your pee - straw colour is well hydrated, dark brown is often not. I often struggle to stay hydrated and drinking water often doesn’t help and drinking too much water can actually dilute the much needed electrolytes - reference Bob’s post. Whilst avoiding too much tea, coffee and coke is a good idea if you are sensitive to caffeine, counting foods such as custard, milk, smoothies, foods high in water content all contribute but probably the best thing I have found is pure coconut water or liquidised water melon.
I'm not into all this obsessive drinking of water. I'll drink what I like and when I like. Can you remember, when we were children we drank when we were thirsty? When I get up in the morning I drink a glass of warm water right away, followed shortly after by a glass of orange juice. Then I make my breakfast, take my pills as I eat it along with more water. I have a coffee mid morning and a mug of tea lunch time. tea in the afternoon, one tea time and one in the evening.
I have a large glass of water by my bed, take some tablets in the evening with water, take thyroid meds when I get up in the night (To be most efficient they need to be taken away from any other tablets). The only time I drink more than that is if I'm working in the garden in the summer.People who force themselves to consume a certain amount of water a day - well I just don't understand the need and feel it can't be good for you. I'd say the rule is to never actually let yourself feel thirsty.
Oh I eat a lot of fruit too so probably get fluid that way as well. An orange, apple, pear and banana most days.
I have friends in their mid 80's who are amazingly fit for their age, she hardly drinks much at all and he maybe has just a little more than her. They have been a real eye opener for me. The secret to being fit is to never sit still for too long and keep your mind active.
Another friend who's just turned 85 swims most mornings and is never still. She actually belongs to two WI groups and numerous others, too many to mention.
I drink decaffeinated tea, did that long before I started with AF. I've had permanent AF for just over 3 years. How about you? What medication do you take and does it help at all? I take 25mg Metoprolol twice daily alongside Warfarin, but have contacted my GP's surgery to discuss trying another beta blocker.
My GP prescribes a low dose sleeping tablet have been on it for years. I'd never sleep otherwise. Started sleeping badly in my late 30's. Would love to stop taking them but there's never a right time. I volunteer at a National Trust property on a Sunday afternoon and I feel the tablets dull my mind a little.
I was on a pill to keep me sleeping through. No waking at 2pm.
It had been a year to 18mths when I was determined to quit after my short marriage came to an end when he chose alcohol over me when I tried to get him out of the new habit.
I went on holiday taking them but a new resolution to quit.
I had never taken them to feel tired.
JeanJeannie don't take your pill until you ARE feeling tired. But perhaps that mechanism has left you. See how it goes.
Well said. This prescriptiveness as to how much water we should drink is just another example of the current health fascism like how much sleep we should get and when. I do not believe this "when you feel thirsty it's too late". I have read that this is a myth with no scientific evidence behind it - a bit like 10,000 steps a day. It is just not logical that the thirst mechanism which is a product of evolution would be so deficient. I can believe that as we age our thirst mechanism might not be so efficient - evolution doesn't care about keeping creatures alive once they have passed on their genes. I get thirsty when working in the garden but not so much lying about reading. I strongly suspect that a lot of this constant sipping of water advice originates with the bottled water industry.
I totally agree, just had lunch with an 86 year old lady friend of mine and she is a pistol. great mind, somewhat active and wants to have a lunch date every month. We will! Covid separated us for awhile and we got out of touch but we all need more interaction.
I didn’t see the original post. Systemic hydration is important for numerous health reasons and there's plenty of evidence based articles out there. How much per individual is another matter. It will vary according to age, weight, other dietary factors and environment. I know this because singers bang on about hydration all the time. Personally I drink 1.5 litres a day unless I'm in a hot country. 2 litres is usually too much for me. I'm 67 and 52 kilos.
I think the discussions on this forum re hydration tend to be more about staying hydrated DURING an AF episode because we all pee more when we get one. Then it's a question of making sure you don't leech your electrolytes. It's happened to me.
And I just found this which I waved from someone else's post sometime last year. Apologies to the OP if they recognise it but I found it useful.
"The heart function in AF is less efficient than in normal (sinus) rhythm so blood gets backed up trying to get into the heart which isn't pumping it forward fast enough. The back pressure causes stretching of the atria and they "think" the body is therefore overloaded with salt and water so they tell the kidneys to get rid of it (by producing a diuretic hormone ANP/BNP). So that makes you pee more until the back pressure has dropped to normal. If it didn't happen the back pressure would go up enough to cause congestion of your lungs (making you breathless on lying down) or oedema of your legs, so it's just as well the system works."
I reported the above to my brother who's in persistent AF and he complained about needing to pee more.
Dehydration seemed to have triggered my afib a couple of times. I also do sport so try to drink 2.5L water per day plus several huge cups of tea. I use hydration capsules too in some of the water.
Our thirst mechanism, ie realising we are thirsty, declined with age plus older people avoid liquid due to incontinence issues and mobility issues. Conversely, being hydrated has been tested in care homes and reduced falls by a huge margin (can't remember exact figure), plus the exercise of getting up more often is good for the residents too.
When we are younger thirst tells us when to drink but I find I don't get thirsty just very tired and weary if I get dehydrated.
I usually just drink water when thirsty depending on heat or activity. I have noticed days when I don't drink very much and feel thirsty for hours I can slip into an Afib episode. Strange how it works.
We don't. I'd argue, having worked for long in the industry, that this is one of several nutrition based myths that originated in a clever marketing person's mind at some point in the not-too-distant past. They work because they are comforting, and comfort is what we need more than anything in life.
Assuming a normal intake of food and fluids (water, tea, coffee, fruit, veg, even beer, etc), the body maintains a perfect balance of all electrolytes and water through a process called homeostasis, with fluids being stored in an abdominal cavity called the splanchnic bed. It takes from there if need be then automatically indicates to us if there's a need by creating feelings of hunger and thirst.
If we are old and unwell, or have certain conditions, forced hydration is then needed and the 2 litre intake (inclusive of all fluid intake, including in moist foods) must be met,
Thank you - I needed some comfort myself sitting here with a heart rate of 100-180bpm and AF since 10am! 😉
Working in pharmaceutical marketing opened my eyes to what goes on in some less regulated parts of the health care industry. In more recent times, the internet and social media have been a godsend for these companies.
One of the GPs at our surgery suggested that and I attempted it for a while but having realised herb teas, coconut water and fruit juices are also liquids, I just have a smaller better designed water container and drink from that and when taking pills, as well as green and herbal teas with meals and guess it might reach 2 litres but am not going to get obsessive about it. The doc who suggested that is the same one who gave me the booster jab on Saturday which resulted in an allergic reaction! It seems I’m one of the 2 percent of the population who are allergic to this latest one! Fortunately, a different doc at the surgery advised an ice pack and prescribed a hydrocortisone cream which is helping to reduce the swelling but it is still painful to the touch and when I move my arm.. When will the medical profession realise how different we all are and attempt to treat us accordingly?
One registered nurse put my 2nd cOVID jab into skin tissue and not my muscle. I ended up with a bright red huge spot itchy and sore.
Given Doxycycline. But before that I put some drops of Nasal Drops on it to stop itching.
I have allergies to sulphur, nickel and brown sticking plaster. I was allergic to the estrogen cream and the sticky patch but they have changed it. Even a hair mine on my face will itch.
The ice pack reduced the swelling on my arm and applying the hydrocortisone cream twice daily seems to be working too so that the itch has gone and there’s just a slight swelling remaining which is slightly painful when touched and when I move my arm but I think it will be back to normal in a few days. I’m allergic to plasters too and there seem to be quite a lot of us as they offer micropore type stuff now which only affects me badly occasionally. Funny to be among the 2 percent!
AF Atrial Fibulation we get when our body is under stress.
Humans are made up of 80% water if I remember the quiz.
Not sure why hydration and blood clotting are compared. Strokes can happen when a bit of plague dislodged and travels towards our brain . Just one of the reasons.
I can see why you don't enjoy going to the toilet a lot.
I got given a tens machine, exercises which don't work and pills to try. This new pill Solifenacin Viatrus 5mg once or twice day.
As it has a sulphite in it I take it the night prior to a big day out.
Ypu could monitor your 'pee'. If it is light yellow you are having enough satuation. We also get liquid from vegs and fruit. Soups and tea and coffee although these latter are stimulates.
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