OK folks you know how I am always banging on about good hydration?
I have just been reading a paper on the affect of age in motorsport (people not cars) and under hydration it made the following point,.
"Normal cues such as thirst and urine colour are less reliable as people age so a good regime of regular drinking is important , at least 2 litres of water for a man per day".
It seems that my prompt of looking for "dry white wine colour" may not be that helpful in older people so just drink plenty of water whether you are thirsty or not.
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BobD
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Yes it is. I can only go by my experiences, and have never ever consumed 8 glasses of water during a day when "idle" as in not working out or exertion. I go by the "if yer thirsty drink" adage, and pee colour. I drink 2 mugs of decaf coffee in the morning, 1 glass after my morning dog-hike, 1 glass for lunch, 1 glass for supper, and I keep a bottle in my vehicle, and one beside my bed...I like to have a gulp or 2 when I wake up, and I need to take "plenty of water" for one of my drugs...oh wait... that's about...8 glasses isn't it 😆Sorry for the sarcasm, but my point is, that we all consume more than we think, and don't forget food...20% or more comes from food. More if you love soups, "stoops" and stews, sauces etc 🙂
I have increased my intake of water when reading those sort of studies but I also listen to my body e.g. aside from the usual green tea/coffee substitute (Orzo) & drinks to down supplements/Flecainide, I make sure I have a pint of water am & pm, more than that and I feel I am forcing it down, so don't.
Ah the importance of water, right up my street 🤣 probably the most important thing we do outside of breathing oxygen. Easiest thing to do is just drink water and nothing else. I have orange juice once a day also but some “drinks” actually have the opposite effect and dehydrate you. Once your in a routine of having drinking a pint/half pint every time you think about it it becomes second nature. Works for me anyway 👍
I guzzle between 4 & 5 litres a day (old habit from training days) so mine sometimes comes out as clear as when it went in 🤣 but even for me occasionally in the morning it’ll be like passing iron bru. Usually when I’ve got some sort of bug so may well be something blocking the water from being absorbed into the cells somehow? I’d be interested to find out why.
Too much is as bad as too little and dark urine can mean your kidneys concentrated the urine overnight (wish mine did) or waste products from disease. If it happens regularly you maybe should have a sample checked out?
Thanks for info buff. Interesting. It really is occasionally though to be honest and mainly when I’ve got a bug. I wouldn’t say 4 litres is too much personally but I could be wrong. I’ve been drinking that amount since 19/20 yrs old to be honest. Back when I used to train and sweat buckets. It’s just ingrained in me to know when I need a drink and it’s not when I’m dehydrated. I feel a kind of dip in mental clarity and I know it’s time to top up. Food for the brain! 💪
As you know Buffafly, we have the annual Comrades Marathon here in SA, ad every year the medical tent is filled with people suffering from water intoxication. There are so many different views on the subject, from 8 glasses of water a day (I never did discover what size glasses) to the doctors who tell you to only drink when you are thirsty as your body knows best - it's confusing to say the least !
I think trying to judge how much water you should be taking on board during a marathon is a pretty impossible task though don’t you? Sweating absolute buckets and trying to judge how much water you need to replace it is rather difficult.
I think the 8 glass rule went out the window a while back. From what I can gather the optimum daily intake is :
- 3.7 litres man
- 2.7 litres woman
Including 20% intake from food.
Thirst is the body’s last line of defence and kicks in when your already partially dehydrated 👍
I only drink water with the exception of one smallish mug of decaf coffee in the morning, but I certainly don't drink as much as that suggested optimum. Even though I live in a sub- tropical climate , I rarely sweat and rarely need the air-conditioning on even on the hottest days, I think we are all different, with different requirements. If you watch a super marathon 80kms, such as the one mentioned to Buffafly, which is televised, you will see the top professional international athletes who win, take in very little water at the water tables along the route and do not appear to sweat - in fact the winners, after an 80km run in 5 or so hours, look as if they have just had a stroll around the garden! so they must have a means of judging their requirements even in the high temperatures experienced. They certainly do not end up in the medical tent with water intoxication. So I have little doubt that correct hydration is a very complex and individual matter.
Don’t forget the 20% deduction though for food which brings down to 3 for men 2 for women from what I’ve been reading. 100% agree that hydration is an individual matter and I function great on 4 litres myself.
As you say it won’t be the top professionals in the tent at the end as they will have specialised help to get them to the right levels. I would assume it would be the guys who maybe don’t have that help or are just starting out on their marathon journey 👍
It’s literally the first thing that pops up. While I don’t usually take the top of the list as gospel, once you look into it further you’ll see it’s the gen consensus.
Love that! I have little use for water unless it's been made into a beverage too. After years of being warned that coffee was a major culprit for Afib, I discovered that it makes absolutely no difference to mine whatever and I think the science of what works for you seems to be the way to go!
It just means that depriving myself of any coffee makes no difference to the frequency of episodes of AF whatever. Elli86. Mine's PAF, and deciding to go with coffee does not induce episodes directly, or later. Occasionally the two events will collide, but it seems to be no more than coincidence. Certainly not often enough to continue to deprive myself of my favoured drink.
I was sure that coffee, not caffeine but something else in coffee triggered by AF episodes. So 14 years ago I stopped drinking coffee, stopped eating coffee creams and any other coffee related food.Between 6 and 7 years ago my paroxysmal AF turned into permanent though asymptomatic AF. I have been off coffee for so long that I don't yearn for it.
I gave up eating soya and soya derived products which appeared also to be a trigger. I still eat products, such as dark chocolate, which include soya as a minor ingredient.
How long did you deprive yourself of coffee for out of interest? Also I’m assuming you still drink coffee and still get af?
Also I found it took roughly a week for the cravings for caffeine to subside for me personally. The same for craving sugary food. I now crave vegetables and meat 🤣
Initially, while under investgation I gave up all coffee for about 4 years Elli86 - caffeinated tea too - largely because the medical profession seemed hell-bent on proving that all I had were random palpitations. Four plus years on, after diagnosis I began to add tea and coffee back which was when I realised that coffee had little impact on my AF. As context it might help if I tell you that the merest sniff of a wine cork or any alcohol sends me into AF, or a few squares of chocolate. Which I think lends a little support to my argument that it's the science of common sense in managing AF successfully.
Hi again, Ellie86. Just that coffee and tea have always figured heavily in my life and coffee is an absolute favourite. Just as some people who really enjoy alcohol will persist in having some after diagnosis, I choose to stick with something I really enjoy. And no good reason to deny myself, when it seems that it has little effect on my daily wellbeing. I am not a fusser over AF. I've addressed the problem of increased risk of stroke by complying with anti-coagulation, and after that, it's down to me to choose what level of discomfort I will be feeling on a daily basis from an irregular heart rhythm. I don't worry about being in AF and don't suffer from any anxiety caused by having it. But that's where we all differ. If it's going to distress you every time you go into AF then I guess you take all steps to avoid that happening. So drinking coffee is just a life choice for me. I see from your comments below that you take an opposing view and that's fine for you. The trick to AF for me is to manage it as comfortably as I can, and I'd hate to deprive myself of my favourite drink for the sake of possibly enjoying more regular heartbeats, and maybe not succeeding anyway! Horses for courses?
For me at least anxiety isn’t and never has been a problem. It’s more a case of determination to lead a normal/active lifestyle and be able to spend as much time as possible, doing as much as possible with my kids while I can.
Af begets af as they say so this is also a driving factor. I’m very aware that the more episodes I suffer the more chance there is of them becoming more and more frequent. Then heading towards the dreaded permanent af.
For me it’s an absolute no brainer to sacrifice ( if you can call it that) junk food/coffee/alcohol etc for the potential of living a healthy active life spent doing the things that really matter. The fleeting pleasure of a coffee is definitely not worth the potential of further af episodes potentially leading to permanent af.
The fact of the matter is food and drink are just fuel to give you the energy to live life. That’s how I see it and it is indeed a fact, it’s just a matter of viewpoint that may make other people see it differently. As I’ve said many times , each to their own though. Everyone will have different priority’s and it’s up to them what they choose to do with their own life.
It does seem from what you’ve said that af doesn’t really affect you a great deal. This again would influence your decision. Some people, myself included, suffer quite badly when in af and also while taking the horrible medication that comes along with it. So cutting out some junk food, coffee and alcohol is not even a second thought for me when it comes with the potential of getting off the damaging meds, potentially ridding af and living a normal active lifestyle again.
Quite right Elli, life style hs been proved to be better than treatment in lots of cases. Of course as I have mentioned many times, there will always be vegan , teetotal racing snakes with AF but in the minority.
I think it’s been proven many times that a healthy lifestyle can and has lead to many people ridding their af either permanently or for a very long time at least. I suppose it all comes down to how much your suffering and therefore how much your willing to sacrifice, although it doesn’t seem like much of a sacrifice to me if any at all 👍
There will always be the outliers but I would think these would be in the extreme minority like you say and the majority of people could probably drastically alter their circumstances by lifestyle changes alone. But what does a young numpty like me know 🤣👍
What your saying seems to make sense but I see it more as an accumulative effect rather than an instant impact.
If I eat McDonald’s one day I will not weigh 20 stone the following but if I do it every day over a year then I will (if I’m still alive 🤣). That’s how I see it in my head atleast.
Same as if I drink a cup of coffee today I’ll probably be ok but if I do it consistently over a number of months, along with poor sleep, very little exercise and guzzling pints every weekend then chances are I’m going to be screwed come the end of the year.
Easier to just cut it all out and be super strict. Might not be right but it’s how I see and do it. Much more important things in life for me than booze, caffeine, drugs and junk food. I’ve done all that crap enough for two lifetimes and I’m well and truly done now. All about my kids and family now. But that’s just me and each to their own. 👍
Well Elli86 I don't necessarily subscribe to the belief that if you eat McDonalds every day you will automatically get to weigh 20 stones either! It's all about the calories, and it's possible to factor in a daily dose of McDonald's or any junk food and not automatically put on weight. Calories are our fuel and if we burn them them judiciously then certainly a burger or two won't make you fat. Whether that's healthy food or not on a daily basis is another matter. But let's just say that life is a balance between what we know may be bad for us but which gives us enjoyment too, if we are lucky enough. If I had to subsist on a very basic diet with no treats and no coffee, I'd survive, but whether I'd survive happily is quite a different thing. Opinions are very much like noses. Almost of us have one, and they are all quite different in character. My philosophy is very much live and let live and again this steers me back to common sense and what will work for you. I've worked out what works for me and you seem to have worked out what works for you and that's a blessing!
The McDonald’s comment was merely a throwaway example to get my point across and was not meant to be taken literally 🤣 however if your average 12/13/14 stone man was to consume nothing but McDonald’s everyday for a year there is absolutely no doubt he would be floating around 18/19/20 stone by the end of it. This would obviously also come with a whole host of other health issues and they would probably consider themselves lucky to be breathing by the end of it.
I would suggest watching the documentary “super size me” where a man consumed nothing but McDonald’s for 30 days. Along with a whole host of unhealthy markers he gained 24 pounds in 30 days. Times that by 12 and you’ll see my point.
As I said in the other message it all boils down to what makes you happy. If that’s drinking coffee or having other “treats” as you call them then that’s great 👍 but for me personally I don’t consider them treats and they certainly don’t provide any happiness for me. Outside of a very fleeting sugar or caffeine rush, which goes as quickly as it came and is replaced by a come down and the need for a further “treat” as a replacement, they provide very little at all.
Hopefully doesn’t come across like I’m preaching as that’s really not the intention. I’m merely providing my opinion and that doesn’t make me right or wrong.
As you said everyone’s entitled to one and we’ve all got to live our lives the best way we know how 👍
Hi Bob. I find keeping hydrated difficult. AF requires hydration - HF requires diuretics! I spend morning and evenings dashing to the loo, the middle of the day trying to re-hydrate!
That should be fluid, not water (as long as not dehydrating drinks). Much of our fluid comes in food. Drinking more than you need just gives your kidneys more work and drinking water excessively can kill you 😨
Water is the best and most natural fluid you can drink though and pretty sure most drinkable liquids are mostly water. Unless drinking gasoline is your thing? 🤣 water is what your body is after when you drink. Of course there are other nutrients in juices that are not found in water but water is the end goal for me.
If we’re going to the EXTREME then yes water can kill but you would have to drink a hell of a lot. Pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the kidneys can process a litre an hour. So if you said maybe not exceeding half that amount would be sensible then that still gives you around 8 litres in a 16 hour waking day. Half this again and you get to roughly how much I drink per day.
Remember 2 litres is the MINIMUM suggested value for a man not the max. I would personally say 4 litres is optimum for a man of my size. I also don’t think a very large amount of fluid comes from eating either personally. I would say no more than 25% 👍
My whole point here Buff is that the paper stated that the urine colour along with thirst are poor indicators of de-hydration as we age, therefore we need to be procative and drink whether we want to or not. I do not know the phsyiological reasons for this but can relate to it.
I can remember a race at Monza a few years ago in 30C temperature when by the end of day one we all had really bad headaches and were not functioning well. It was not until it dawned on me that I hadn't peed for about 8 hours that the penny dropped. None of us had felt thirsty but next day we made an effort to drnk water regularly and felt so much better.
During special forces training they pre load with lots of water to ensure good hydration before setting off so I guess top atheletes do similar.
Interesting, as far as I can tell from Safariing it’s partly because urine output decreases with age although it doesn’t explain lack of thirst. Makes sense because with heart or kidney failure liquid intake has to be reduced otherwise you get soggy! My cat drinks a lot because he is diabetic but the vet told me to prepare for him to develop kidney failure sooner or later.
My annual kidney function tests show very gradual decline in line with aging so told everything is normal for age. Kidneys always seem to be working fine at 3 am!
I’m 82 and I’ve never passed urine as often as now and sometimes I leak which happens even if I hardly drink any water all day as if I’m out for the day as I spend my day looking for the ladies I can drink more when I’m indoors as I can get to the toilet straight away so I don’t know where passing urine gets less the older you get
2 litres has been the minimum amount recommended for donkeys years. I suppose it depends where you look but from my research it’s 3.7 for men and 2.7 for women. Minus 20% for intake of water from food (which you said was where most of our water intake comes from 🤔) this brings it down to roughly 2 litres for women and 3 for men.
From my own personal experience, albeit circumstantial evidence, I function much better on 4-5. I guess no one will know until they do it but very few people do drink the amount they should and you’d be massively surprised by how much of a difference it makes when you do 👍
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