Hello
I have my daughter’s recent full thyroid and iron panel. Hopefully this can help understand why she still has so many symptoms after starting thyroxine 1.5 years ago …. Thanks so much!
TSH - 1.57 (0.27-4.2)
FT4 - 23.1 (12-22)
FT3 - 5.6 (4.1 -7.9)
RT3 - 41 (10-24)
Iron - 17.2 (6.6-26)
TIBC - 67 (41 -77)
Transferrin Saturation - 26% (20-55)
Ferritin- 63 (15 -150)
How old is your daughter?
She’s 7
Take these results to her specialist
See what they say about High reverse T3
Can you offer any insight into her iron panel?
Sorry no idea
humanbean SeasideSusie
Hi there
Here are the recent iron results for my daughter i said i was getting a couple of weeks ago. Any thoughts please?
Thanks so much
Dolphin40,
I am sorry your daughter is feeling no better, and it must be awful for you both.
A small RT3 amount is healthy as balances T3, stops us getting hyper and helps clear unused T4 from the body but when RT3 becomes elevated it impairs thyroid hormone meds from working effectively and indirectly alters many other bodily systems. It can make one feel extremely ill and unless the cause is identified and addressed it will continue.
Causes can be too much meds but then high T4 with low FT3 & corresponding low TSH are usually seen. When was the blood drawn in relation to previous med dose? Other causes may be high cortisol, blood sugar imbalances, iron & nutritional deficiencies, imbalanced sex hormones, bodily inflammation and other health conditions. The list is endless.
Your previous posts indicate basic nutrients are good but have you had more through investigations into say zinc, copper, etc? Did you have active B12 tested? Re iron panel, serum iron is fine, ferritin is a little low at 35.5% through range but I believe the pediatric transferrin saturation level is reported as lower due to higher serum transferrin levels, so would say these results are fine. However, we are an adult thyroid forum with no medical experience, and children's test ranges and investigations may vary.
I know you & your daughter haven't received a great experience re conventional medicine. Maybe with a paediatrician, 2 top endocrinologists & then 2 functional doctors there are too many involved and tests have been overlooked. There are loads more things that could be investigated, for instance Vit D receptor impairment, MTHFR mutations, heavy metals load. Have you had your daughters mould infections you previously wrote about investigated? Have the elevated ANA’s been further investigated?
Hello
Thanks for all reply.
Blood drawn late morn. Had not taken thyroxine since the previous morning.
B12 good. Tested for MTHFR and showed difficulty with folate but folate also high in range.
No mold found but treated house anyway. Mycotoxins test shows reduction since previous test.
Was taking vitamin D which is now top of the range.
Further testing for ANA was done. All negative so far and full autoimmune panel shows thyroid antibodies only.
Paid for private testing of all the bloods her functional practitioner feels were missed including hormones which are ok 🤷🏻♀️
Ive honestly done everything and anything. Its cost a fortune (which doesn’t matter as long as she gets better) but it just continues with no answers ……
Dolphin40,
No, there are loads more tests.
If your daughter has high folate levels with MTHFR issues I would be looking into elevated homocysteine, etc. Also possible high folic acid from food sources that has been unable to be metabolised.
Optimised Vit D levels do not tell if there is a gene impairment on the receptor that is inhibiting good expression.
How can mycotoxins reduce if you say there was no found mould?
Other tests I had to get well were heavy metal load (I had to chelate) & histamine (I now follow a low histamine diet as have low DAO enzyme).
Has your daughter gut issues? Parasites are surprisingly common as is H.pylori?
Something is driving that RT3. Have you thought of taking her to a functional medical practitioner who is knowledgable in all these tests?
We are on our 5th functional practitioner 😞 they all say different things, want different tests etc its been a nightmare! X
She has had stool tests, Armin tested positive for Lyme and Co infections. Just sent off for a better stool test.Had a histamine test that showed no issues.
Mycotoxins were present in urine but don’t know where from. She has been taking binders.
Dolphin40,
Oh my goodness. So is she being treated for Lyme disease?
Did you realise there are strong links between Lyme, mould infections and Hashi? And that many of the symptoms overlap?
Be aware the NHS stool tests are not always comprehensive enough for complex conditions. I was recommended the Genova Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis which showed positive results for conditions the NHS test had shown as negative! I also had the Genova DetoxiGenomic Profile which tells of SNP’s associated with increased risk of impaired detoxification capacity when exposed to environmental toxins. Also micronutrient testing.
.
Mould & Hashi
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
.
Lyme & Hashi
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
.
Lyme & mould
lymedisease.org/patel-lyme-...
Yes, i know the links unfortunately.She was with tinctures but not really tbh. Nobody seems to know how to treat it here!?!
We are doing the Genova stool test. Had to do everything private as NHS don’t have a clue about autoimmune x
Dolphin40,
Well, at least you know a probably cause of that RT3.
I don't have Lyme Disease but from what I understand the National Health Service are pretty useless in offering the more comprehensive treatment & investigations required for the good management of Lyme.
The best thing you can do to help your daughter is to educate yourself so able to find the appropriate help as untreated/mismanaged Lyme Disease is progressive and risks causing years of awful physical & neurological problems.
Dolphin40
I'm sorry but I have absolutely no experience where children's results are concerned and everything I've looked into has always been regarding adults, so I'm not comfortable passing comments on results for such a young child. I would rather be honest and say I have no idea than say that it looks fine and be wrong.
What are her symptoms, if you don’t mind my asking, please?
Includes hair loss, anxiety, brain fog, constant tummy aches etc
As per above post, it looks like too much T4 is being converted into RT3 which can cause those issues. Look at Paul Robinson Thyroid website, lots and lots of info there on that and just tons of research. His books are great too. And he has a Facebook group also good.
Iron doesn’t look particularly optimal but I don’t know how to read children’s results that well.
Have you tested her B12 and has she been tested for any pernicious anaemia as well. Some of the symptoms you list are also B12 issues. Another good website to trawl is b12deficiency.org You need B12 (amongst others eg Vit D, folate (works closely with B12) and Ferritin) for Thyroid to work properly. Don’t start B12 supplements until all investigations are complete. As with all tests, not always conclusive as it’s about how the cells use the vitamins, not just what’s in the blood. B12 often goes hand in hand with thyroid and iron issues.
Good luck! I have an 8 year old with health issues as well so feel for you!
Thanks for your reply.
B12 was tested and above middle of the range.
MTHFR showed issues with methylating folate but folate high in range.
Bloods don’t indicate anaemia.
Vitamin D was supplemented now top of range.
I honestly don’t know what else to do in terms of finding out what is causing the RT3 and how to fix it.
Sorry you have a young one struggling too - its the worst 😞
Did you test for pernicious anaemia? It’s not always picked up and can even be asymptomatic too! Just because bloods are ‘high’ for things doesn’t mean she can actually use it! Some people self inject B12 daily to feel normal and I imagine their b12 readings are sky high…! Do look into that website some more. The Lady that runs it is also excellent.
This film is a bit slow but very interesting with the whole B12 thing:
youtube.com/watch?v=OvMxJ6G...
Paul Robinson on the thyroid is excellent, he does do some coaching still. I suggest you check out the RT3 issue, look into adrenals, Epstein Barr and other viral infections too.
Oh, another website and Doctor that is amazing is Dr Myhill. There is a lot on fatigue and brain fog on her site. Her suggestion of using C0Q10 to support mitochondria has helped me a lot! She is excellent and her website has SO much information!
And of course, there is always the diet lever to try…
Good luck!
paulrobinsonthyroid.com/rev...
This is very clear article…it suggests RT3 will be blocking cells use of T3 (the active hormone)
The idea of rT3 blocking T3 receptors has been challenged very strongly. For example:
You’ll see that RT3 is most highly elevated in extreme cases of autoimmune hyperthyroidism. In true hyper, the presence of excess RT3 cannot prevent both thyroid hormones from rising. It can’t stop T4-T3 conversion in cells. It can’t prevent severe symptoms of thyrotoxicosis. Therefore, claims that endogenous levels of RT3 hormone can block T3 transport, metabolism or signaling are highly unscientific. As you will see, it is not a toxin or blocker unless you are dosing 100x the amount a human body can produce.
thyroidpatients.ca/2020/11/...
Sorry I don’t understand what this means for my daughter’s situation then?
The main point I was making was that rT3 doesn't block T3 receptors.
Her FT4 appears to be slightly high so rT3 being high is not surprising.
Can you confirm that ALL the reference intervals are correct for a 7-year-old?
All too often we see adult reference intervals being quoted regardless the age of the patient.
Could bringing the T4 down, also bring the RT3 then?
The rT3 has top come from somewhere. Broadly, the less T4, the less is available to be converted to rT3. But there are many factors which affect the rates of conversion and the pathways of all the thyroid hormones.
I do heartily recommend Thyroid Patients Canada (where my quote was from) and there are several blogs posted there which discuss rT3. Very largely referring to relatively recent research (but not ignoring older papers).
Not an easy read. But well worth the effort, I suggest.
Not sure 🤔How is testing for P.anaemia different?
All adrenal testing fine and cortisol hasn’t been high.
She tested positive for past EBV though 😞but you can’t treat this can you?
Thank you
P Anaemia very different, also cause low stomach acid and reflux etc! Test is for different type antibodies. Look at the websites i shared, lots of info.
90% adults have had EBV in the past and if you look at Dr Myhill website, there is a lot of info on this. I myself have had EBV but it looks like I’ve had a recent reactivation as I have some ‘recent antibodies’ so I’m doing a course of antivirals as prescribed by my endocrinologist as it has been proven to help.
🤔How is testing for P.anaemia different?
There is no definitive test for Pernicious Anaemia.
A positive result to an Intrinsic Factor antibody test is usually agreed to be a clear indication. But a negative result comes back in a considerable proportion of people who do have Pernicious Anaemia.
Have a look over at the Pernicuous Anaemia Society forum and/or their website.
Latest thyroid bloods & iron panel…
Iron panel results. Referral to GI
Iron Panel results
Iron Panel Test Results - Any feedback welcome
Iron panel results and trouble raising T4 medication?
