Is Vit-D bad for you?

[janebob99]

I've read some posts that say VIT-D supplementation is bad for men with PCa.

Does anyone have any papers or references that support this position?

Thanks,

Bob

[ToolBeltZia]

Just did a quick DuckDuckGo search and the papers I quickly scanned say nobody knows but the thought is that it likely is beneficial, not detrimental.

[janebob99 in reply to ToolBeltZia]

Thanks!

[Magnus1964]

It's one of those supplements that keep going back and forth. I have been taking vitamin D3 for decades. I'm still here.

[garyjp9 in reply to Magnus1964]

Magnus, what dose do you take?

[Magnus1964 in reply to garyjp9]

1000mg

[garyjp9 in reply to Magnus1964]

Thanks

[Magnus1964 in reply to garyjp9]

Hey my mistake, I take 1000 I. U. s

[garyjp9 in reply to Magnus1964]

Thanks for the revision, Magnus.

[janebob99]

I did some reading about Vit-D and Prostate Cancer and found that many papers support the position that Vit-D is protective.

Here is a 1-year old YouTube video reviewing a meta-analysis by Song et al. (2018).

youtube.com/watch?v=YjtROU1...(Not working as expected?)

The paper by Song et al. is at:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/303...

Song et al. did a meta-analysis of 7 studies (N=7808) of men with prostate cancer, and looked at follow-up periods of 4 to 21 years. They concluded that:

"This meta-analysis suggested that higher 25-hydroxyvitamin D level was associated with a reduction of mortality in prostate cancer patients, and vitamin D is an important protective factor in the progression and prognosis of prostate cancer."

Fig. 2 from Song et al. is reproduced here, which shows the Hazard Ratio (lower is better) for prostate cancer-specific mortality (PCSM) versus serum Vit-D levels. At the highest serum Vit-D level (110 n-mol/L), which is equivalent to 44 ng/ml in USA units, the risk of dying from prostate cancer is reduced by about 50% (p=0.002), which is a significant reduction.

The following observations support these findings:

1. The incidence and severity of prostate cancer is generally higher in white men living in Northern Latitudes, where Vit-D levels are lower; and

2. The incidence and severity of prostate cancer is higher in African-American men, whose Vit-D levels are also lower due to the dark skin color not synthesizing as much Vit-D from the Sun.

PCSM Hazard Ratio vs Serum Vit-D levels

[Tall_Allen]

High level evidence that high doses of Vitamin D robs calcium from bones.

prostatecancer.news/2018/07...

[SimMartin in reply to Tall_Allen]

I have been asking about my high serum bit D as it runs around 130-140 but my Rheumatologist is still suggesting I take 1000uj supplement! As does my primary care physician …. Maybe I should just stop given a bone loss even though on biphosphonates for the last 14 months of 19 months of ADT !???

[maley2711 in reply to SimMartin]

Your number is above the normal range ...did you ask those Docs "why?"

[SimMartin in reply to maley2711]

Well when checked first it was 185 and they said drop the D3 from 2000 down to 1000 - now they didn’t say anything else - but I will have a discussion as going to pay for another appointment with the rheumatologist -

[janebob99 in reply to SimMartin]

Is your Vit-D in units of nano-moles/L or ng/ml?

[SimMartin in reply to janebob99]

nmol/L

[Tall_Allen in reply to SimMartin]

Your serum Vitamin D is very high! IDK what caused that - possibly a defective Vitamin D receptor or something to do with your thyroid function? I think you should ask your doctor to investigate.

[SimMartin in reply to Tall_Allen]

Mmmm ! Thanks I did query the high reading but said was on the high side but ok ! Interestingly my sister had hers tested and was on Vit D after a break and it was over 200. So maybe something genetic going on - my bone profile Serum alkaline phosphatase is ok at 85U/L - my Plasma parathyroid hormone level was normal at 5 pmol/l last year and my D3 was 170 then - that’s when I reduced from 2000iu to 1000 on advice.

Will have a discussion but hey it’s hard to be my own rheumatologist and endocrinologist and oncologist!!!!

[dhccpa in reply to SimMartin]

Yes, I've never gotten over 50 even with 5000 units per day.

[janebob99 in reply to SimMartin]

That's interesting that your PTH was normal even though your Vit-D was high (according to the Burt paper). I've stopped taking Vit-D for now and I will discuss this with my PCP in a few weeks.

[janebob99 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks, Tall_Allen. I will ask my PCP later this month. In the meantime, I've stopped taking any Vit-D because of the Burt paper, which shows a large drop in PTH when taking high-dose Vit-D, which, in turn, causes a drop in serum calcium. (my calcium is officially LOW now). I'm going to get my PTH measured because of this paper.

I just had a successful 7-hour surgery to fix a bad set of vertabra (they fused L1-L2-L3-L4-L5 and applied a lot of synthetic bone graft material). Fortunately my recent DEXA scan was above normal for my age and the surgeon said that the holes they drilled for the Ti screws told them that the bone had a high density and were strong.

[janebob99 in reply to Tall_Allen]

I take 10,000 IU/Day of Vit-D and have no evidence of hypercalcimia (high calcium in the blood). In fact, my serum calcium is at the very low end of Normal range. Do you think PTH could be affected by high dose Vitamin-D?

I also had a DEXA scan last week, and my T-levels were excellent. So, no indication that Vit-D is pulling calcium from my bones.

[Tall_Allen in reply to janebob99]

In the BURT RCT, the follow-up was 3 years. Men who took 10,000 IU lost 3.5% in BMD. Since there is level 1 proof of risk, and Level 1 proof of no benefit, why are you supplementing?

[Mascouche in reply to janebob99]

I think you also need to take K2 in MK7 form in order to fully benefit from the D3.

For my part, I do not take Vitamin D3 every day. I only take it once every 3 days or so but when I do I take 10,000 spread throughout the day and some just before bed. And if one of my children catches a cold, then I take up to 30,000 UI so I do not catch what they got. So far, that seems to work for me as they get sick and I do not.

[clayfin]

Include K2 and drink a bit more milk.

[SimMartin in reply to clayfin]

I take K2 and have for some time

[fast_eddie in reply to clayfin]

Yes, just be sure to take K2 along with the D3. Been taking this combination for years.

[janebob99 in reply to fast_eddie]

Thanks! I will look into K2.

[MacRetired]

They are studying the effects of Vitamin D on cancer. This article might help: cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau...

I take it on a daily basis because not only do I have prostate cancer but 4 years ago I had colon cancer and it helps with the neuropathy I experienced from the chemo treatments.

[garyjp9 in reply to MacRetired]

How much do you take?

[Teufelshunde]

Definitely one of the supplements on Dr Block's list at the Block Cancer Center outside Chicago.

[London441]

it depends on why you’re taking it. To restore to normal levels, to compensate for living where there’s little sun, of course. Just supplementing to a somewhat higher than standard doses for the myriad reasons YouTube tells you to is probably fine.

Megadoses to attempt to preserve bone health isn’t smart, and likely counterproductive and/or dangerous. Exercise works far better, while also doing too many other good things for your health to list.

[conbio]

Typically nutrionists will recommend Vit D supplements for me undergoing ADT, radiation, and brachytherapy to ensure bone strength. Mine did.

[janebob99 in reply to conbio]

Thanks !

[MrG68]

Well, I've read both sides for an age.

There is a difference though between naturally getting it from the sun and supplementing it.

IMO, why bother supplementing it if you don't have to. Get yourself a sun lamp or sit in the sun. That way your body will regulate the level in your blood instead of trial and error from supplements.

I think that the sun made vitamin D gets sulphated making it water soluble. This means it can travel around your body more freely.

If I remember right, I think it was Dr Seneff that said the sulphated vitamin D is better for the immune system and fighting cancer. I never researched that claim though.

You need cholesterol and sulphur to make it, so maybe those on statins could consider supplementing it or at least check your levels? Maybe..