MO is recommending EstroDIM

[ocman]

to help lower Estrogen.

The ingredients are: Vitamin E 33.5mg, I3C 200mg, DIM 100mg.

Should I avoid this supplement because of the Vitamin E?

peace

[Hidden]

What is the vitamin E form (e.g. alpha tocopherol)?How high is your estrogen? (E2 or estradiol is a typical lab test - you might need a sensitive one for men)

[ocman in reply to Hidden]

Vitamin E 33.5mg (223%) (from 50 IU as d-Alpha Tocopherol Succinate USP)

Estrogens 104 pg/mL (40-115)Estradiol 22.8 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)

[Hidden in reply to ocman]

Personally I would stay away from it. Alpha Toc might be the worst one. You could easily get an I3C and a DIM supplement from amazon or other places if you want one. Why does your MO want to lower your E? Are you on ADT? If not, then an AI will quickly lower your E. But your E isn't high. And we need some E or we have all sorts of issues. So, again, why?

[Tall_Allen]

More importantly, why are you trying to lower estrogen?

The amount of Vitamin E (50 iu) is much lower than the 400 iu that contributes to prostate cancer.

[ocman in reply to Tall_Allen]

She said she would like to see my Estrogen lower. Maybe because they sell EstroDIM in their office?

[Tall_Allen in reply to ocman]

LOL

[ocman in reply to Tall_Allen]

I just realized that it's 2x twice per day, so that's 200iu.

[Tall_Allen in reply to ocman]

That seems dangerous to me.

[ocman in reply to Tall_Allen]

I don't really like the idea of Vitamin E at all...

[ocman in reply to Tall_Allen]

Do you by any chance have a link to a study that I could follow up on?

[Hidden in reply to ocman]

The study used a higher dose of E-a than in the supplement. But just because a study was done on a specific dose doesn't mean that anything outside of that dose is automatically safe. I agree with you. Stay away from the E-a.

I take a dim view of DIM and I3C to lower E (pun obviously intended). But I certainly could be wrong. And I would welcome data showing that I am incorrect.

cancer.gov/types/prostate/r...

[Tall_Allen in reply to ocman]

Here ya go:

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

[Justfor_]

Your E2 is not "absolutely" high. The question is: Is it "relatively" high?

If your total testosterone is 200 times more, then you are ok. Less than x150 times starts becoming worrisome. Mind you to express both quantities to the same unit.

I.e. 22.8 pg/ml=2.28 ng/dl x200 ~450 ng/dl total T.

[ocman in reply to Justfor_]

Total T is 585

[Pinetree in reply to Justfor_]

Justfor,Thanks for your info about total T vs Estradiol levels. Where did you learn this? I have read a document by Dr. John R Lee entitled “Hormone Balance for Men.” In it he says prostate cancer is cause by hormone imbalance (and specifically estrogen dominance) and that testosterone is not the problem. Until he passed away, Dr. Lee treated his prostate cancer patients with hormones instead of RP and Radiation with great results. Because SOC says ADT (chemical castration) is necessary to eliminate T from feeding cancer and to radiosensitize the cancer cells, all doctors prescribe it before radiotherapy. I did not take it and my current E2 is 1.67 ng/ml and total T is 530 ng/dl. However other hormones are high: FSH 43.5 (1.4-18), LH 10.8 (1.5-9.3), IGF-1 150 (93-134). Any thoughts. Pinetree.

[Justfor_ in reply to Pinetree]

Right. Estrogen dominance is the key word here. I first heard about it from a post here by user pjoshea. According to my notes, his cut point ratio, is 150. Further search via Google revealed, at least, two papers stating cut points ~160 and ~190. As an aide memoire I have adopted the round figure of 200, also being on the safe side. If Patrick (pjoshea) can chime in you will get more reliable information than what I can provide.

[Hidden in reply to Pinetree]

Is your E2 from a standard measurement? Very low. Mine is also very low in standard tests (the typical subject is female with higher E so the resolution is terrible for men).I don't know why the bias is low. Perhaps they bin down?

Anyway, I need a sensitive E2 test (ICMA).

[Pinetree in reply to Hidden]

RSH1. Yes my result was from a standard blood test. I did convert reported value as you mentioned in previous post by moving decimal over one place to get matching units with Total T. My score was down from 30.3 pg/mL pre proton radiation therapy to 16.7 pg/mL post proton radiation therapy.