Hi lovely warriors, i hope you're keeping sane and strong at whatever stage you are in your journey! I send you all the best of luck xx
We are about to do a new fresh cycle, we have been advised to do PGT-A testing as our last cycle 3 transfers failed (Fresh transfer= MMC, 2x FTE BFN). Our main reason for referral to IVF was MF, however since I'm now "old" 40 this year , they are advising to do the PGT-A.
We only got 3 embryos last time, so wondering if it would still be worth it? I know it is no silver bullet as it doesn't guarantee success, but the scientist seemed to suggest it would at least increase the chances to discard issues with the chromosomes. I've seen the HFEA recommendation on it, and it doesn't look very positive on preventing miscarriages for "older" women.
I would be very grateful if you could share your views on this, to help me make my mind up.
Thank you very much, sending loads of hope and strength your way xx
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Hopewhite
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Hello This is such a controversial topic and you will probably get a range of views coming through. PGTA will not increase the chance of having a baby but it can speed up the process - because you aren't returning the potentially abnormal embryos to the body. PGTA is not bullet proof though, there are some schools of thought that say you can inadvertently dispose of embryos that otherwise may have corrected themselves. I'm sure as you have had MMC you will want to do what you can to reduce this risk so appreciate that it's a really hard decision. My personal take - I did decide to PGTA after a late loss due to chromosomal issues. I didn't want to suffer like that again so wanted to reduce the risk by testing. I had to accept that I wouldn't end up with many euploids and possibly none at all, due to my low AMH but it was a risk I was willing to take to minimise as far as possible a repeat situation. But this is such a personal thing x x
hi lovely thank you for sharing your experience, I’m so sorry about your previous heartbreak. I know there’s no silver bullet as I’ve seen other ladies in here where the tested embryo has failed to implant or resulted in mc , so I suppose it just helps to check the chromosomes are right , I wish this was a more exact science but I suppose creating life it’s still a miracle in the end . My concern is what if I only get one embryo to test and then nothing to transfer , would you mind me asking how many did you test ? I understand your decision, I didn’t know what caused the MMC but it was put down to chromosomes, and it was very painful to live through that . I hope you’re doing well with your treatment , sending you all the good luck !
So we were attempting to bank euploid embryos. We collected 4 blasts altogether across a few cycles (others were cancelled or did not make blasts). Only one of the four was normal. At my age (which was 37 at the time) I was told the stats say 50% normal so it was hugely disappointing to be under that after investing so much emotionally, financially and time wise. Although the approach didn't work for me it does for others, would embryo banking be an option for you so you collect a few and then test them all? X
Despite being on the younger end (32), I opted for PGT-A testing because I had so many failed transfers. I couldn't face putting my body through it again without knowing that the embryo transferred stood a good chance. I'm now 18 weeks pregnant with a PGT-A tested embryo. For me it was absolutely the right decision and I have no regrets. The embryos they disposed of were very unlikely to result in a live birth as they are were missing chromosomes. I think doing PGT-A potentially saved me the heartbreak of losing another pregnancy. Hope this helps! X
Hi lovely, many congratulations on your pregnancy and thank you for sharing your experience, it’s a tough ride sorry that you had to go through so much xx glad this was useful in your case , would you mind me asking how many embryos you tested?
We tested 11 and 4 came back abnormal. 3 were missing chromosomes and 1 was mosaic, but mosaic to the point that it was very unlikely to correct itself (80% of the cells were abnormal). They do keep mosaics if 20% or less cells are abnormal as they can sometimes correct themselves. I think the scary part was when they told me that one embryo in particular had the capacity to implant, but it would almost definitely result in a late miscarriage. So we had 7 healthy embryos. The first one implanted and we have 6 in the freezer 🙂
Ah that’s wonderful numbers , glad it all worked out for you , I can already imagine the level of nerve wrecking you must go through whilst waiting for the results ! Yes the scientist explained that ‘mosaics’ aren’t discarded if they thing they stand a chance.
Hopefully you’re enjoying a smooth pregnancy so far xx all the best of luck
It depends if you have time and emotional resilience to go through failed transfers? PGTA will help you find the embryos most likely to become a baby in arms. We decided to opt in for PGTA to help avoid further heartache x
Hi ladyM thank you for sharing your experience , I must say I’m quite resilient , however MMC was definitely a heartbreaking experience for us , and the physical recovery took a long time , so that’s something I’d not like to repeat x
First BFN was painful but I saw the silver lining in comparison, still the heart gets a bit battered .
I hope your decision has helped you to have the success you deserve, sending you all the best of luck
Thank you, it’s certainly gave us the reassurance we needed following losses. We’ve been on this journey for 6 years so we’re very worn down with it all! See how you feel - it took a lot of convincing for us to do the testing. We were really apprehensive but one doctor explained it in a way that was encouraging. We did pgta then the Endiome Trio. All these decisions are so hard to make. Thank you, all the best going forward x
I have had 2 retrieval’s which resulted in 3 PGT embryos. Unfortunately all 3 have failed (FET 2 resulted in a chemical pregnancy).
Unfortunately PGT is not a guarantee but I do believe it has given us knowledge to persue further tests based on this information. E.g ERA, EMMA, ALICE and thrombophilia tests, my husband also has high DNA frag.
Despite not having success, doing PGT has taken the guessing out of why our embryos haven’t continued into a viable pregnancy and caused us to look at other factors.
I am about to go into egg collection #3 and unsure I will actually do PGT this time based on our numbers and the extra cost (out of 5 embryos 3 ‘normal ‘ is quite reassuring) I’m 38, turning 39 in July.
Hi lovely , thank you very much for sharing your experience, like you say it at least gives you a part of the puzzle! We have done dna frag which luckily came back ok, and also done thrombophilia which was also ok , I’ve been tempted to do the Warwick implantation clinic tests but our consultants have discouraged us from it as they are research. Although a part of me wishes to do more I also hope it’s a numbers game. Hopefully you’re getting closer to having a positive outcome, sending you all the best of luck xx
Hi, we’ve had mixed experiences with testing. With our very first cycle (aged 41) we opted to try without testing, sadly our first transfer resulted in an early miscarriage. We then decided to test our remaining 4 embryos from which 1 came back normal, but unfortunately resulted in BFN. With hindsight we should have tested all our embryos earlier as advised.
Fast forward a year we had 3 batching cycles (aged 42) from which we got 3 blastocysts. We had them tested and to our amazement all 3 came back normal. I’m currently 16 weeks pregnant after our first transfer from this batch.
Hi lovely congratulations on your pregnancy, what an inspiring story thank you for sharing this , it goes to show the quality of the eggs/sperm can fluctuate a lot , would you mind me asking if you did anything differently in preparation for that last cycle ? I hope you’re having a smooth pregnancy and enjoying it xx
We did a few different things, I took DHEA and COQ10 throughout the batching and for the last cycle we used a growth hormone Zomacton and opted for ICIS over normal IVF (2 of our 3 embryos came from this cycle).
Also we went for a medicated vs natural FET and used an embryo glue.
It’s was a LOT more drugs all in all but we got the outcome we were hoping for xx
if you are almost 40 and have had failed transfers then I would absolutely do it. Just make sure your clinic allows ‘mosaic’ transfers. The three outcomes are normal, abnormal and mosaic. A normal has a 69% chance of implanting and a 50% chance of live birth. Whereas an abnormal is very unlikely to work and could cause miscarriage or chromosomal issues. A mosaic however is when then don’t know for certain and there is more and more research showing that some mosaics are closer to being as successful as ‘normal’ embryos.
I had two failed FETs with ‘normal’ embryos. And my ‘mosaic’ embryo is currently breastfeeding on my chest.
I found it so helpful as because I knew it was ‘normal’ embryos that had failed, I knew there was probably something else going on that was stopping implantation, so I did lots of further tests including immune testing and changed a lot for the next round which worked.
Many clinics used to disregard ‘mosaic’ embryos which is why PGT a was often not recommended
hi what a lovely outcome for you! Thank you for sharing all this and huge Congratulations on your baby! I need to read my notes again as I’m sure the scientists explained the mosaic part , as I raised exactly that question , he said they used the latest technology and you shouldn’t get those , probably he meant what you’re explaining that there’s a threshold they use before discarding any. Like you say it at least gives you reassurance on a very important piece of the puzzle , and can turn attention to other things xx
I had my embryos pgta tested due to recurrent miscarriage. My first transfer failed. 2nd gave me my little boy. 3rd was a chemical and 4th my little girl. It gave me peace of mind after so many miscarriages but of course miscarriage can be caused by many things not just chromosomes. X
Hi lovely thank you for sharing this , I’m glad you have had a great outcome and have your 2 children 🥰 , may I ask if the failed transfers you described above were with the euploids ? Did you do anything different for the successful ones ? Thanks again for taking the time to spread the hope xx
The failed ones were with pgta normal so no mosaics. After the first failed I went on an immunology protocol steroids intralipids then next transfer worked. 3rd we think my adenomyosis was worse (after having son) and that maybe why failed so last transfer I did prostap down reg for 6 weeks to reduce the inflammation then transfer worked. Good luck xx
Hi JoyB , I’m so sorry about your loss , must have been heartbreaking, I hope you’re well xx . We had a MMC at viability scan week 8 after hematoma and heartbeat found at week 6, I know the pain xx
I hope you have more embryos and have success on your next transfer xx
I did read it’s no silver bullet hence I’m a bit on the fence , from what I understand, checks abnormalities in number of chromosomes but not specific genetic conditions ? And MC can still happen for other reasons, it’s a true miracle having all the stars perfectly aligning !
I did it for my second attempt for a sibling - age 43. Prior to that, 2 FETs and one fresh failed. For me it was the right thing to do as I had 7 good looking embryos tested and only 1 came back normal. That 1 normal is now my 9 month old. I could have spent a lot of time and money on those abnormal 6 that I don’t have. Wish you the best with your decision x
Oh wow Gerti what a lovely outcome ! Huge Congratulations on your baby ! It goes to say it only takes one , thank you very much for sharing this. May I please ask if you did something else on that successful transfer I’m addition to pgta?
We tested 5 embryos across 3 cycles (age 41/42) and 4 came back normal. However, 2 of those euploids failed to implant (likely uterine issues that I had surgery for) and number 3 implanted and I’m now 18 weeks pregnant. We decided to PGTA test after a miscarriage (untested) and my age.
I think it’s worth it (if you have enough to test) as if you only get one blastocyst then our doctor said you might as well try a transfer.
It’s a difficult (& costly) decision but after my miscarriage (likely chromosome issue like you) I just couldn’t do that again (if it was chromosome issue) Wishing you the best of luck whatever you decide xxx
Thank you very much for sharing your experience! That’s one of my questions we only got 3 x5 days blastocyst last time, the other 6 made it to day 6 but not good enough quality to freeze . Hopefully we’ll get at least similar this time . Huge congratulations on your pregnancy, glad to read it has helped you get there xx I hope you’re enjoying it and have a smooth experience after all this!
if you have a lot of embryos it can save time not doing transferrs that would never work
It can reduce the chance of a misscariage/loss/having to terminate pregnancy for a genetic condition/issue with the fetus
Cons -
if you have only a few embryos it doesn't save time as you are as quick transferring them back fresh and a couple of FETs as waiting for PGTA and then a FET.
It costs more money the more embryos you have (however if you get lots of embryo though and the results mean you do less FETs this can pay itself in the money you save in not transferring the abnormal ones so there’s a break even point)
It doesn’t increase your chances any of that ‘round’ working or improve embryo quality just knocks out ones not recommended for transfer
It’s not a perfect science and they may be discarding embryos that could have worked in a small minority of cases (from my own research)
Some clinics have different threshold on what they will and won’t transfer back and some of those discarded by some clinics could be successful in other clinics (mosaics)
Very small risk of damage to embryo and they need to be frozen (rather than a fresh transfer) so again n very very small risk of not surviving the thaw when ready to transfer
You might have nothing to transfer back and you lose the chance of a fresh transfer when your body is all prepped (to me that wastes time)
As I only get 2-3 embryos (also over 40 and had a few chemicals and a MMC ) I decided not to test them but I think we would have if we had more embryos. I like the idea of one back fresh and any others tested in n that scenario though as that is a bit of a compromise situation. No right or wrong answer though it’s defo personal preference to balancing time/risks/money and how many embryos you get xx
Hi Twiglet I hope you’re well , thank you very much for providing such a detailed view, sounds like you were on similar boat than me , we only had 3 x5 day blastocyst last time , I’m really hoping results will be at least similar but I know nothing can guarantee that. I did ask yesterday and they said as long as I get 2 I can test , of course it terrifies me to end with nothing to transfer!, but also they said if it’s just one they can just transfer and we’d get the full refund. You have reminded me of a very good point I forgot to ask how long after would I have the FET!
Wishing you all the best of luck for your next transfer, I hope we are getting closer to having our dream come true xx
Yes we were in the exact same situation with the PGTA recommendation from the clinic after a 3 embryo cycle didn’t work. We’ve had 2 embryos each cycle after so haven’t ever had it done xx
Hi, aside from PGTA I tested for thorombophilia and thyroid panel and ureaplasma/mycoplasma to minimise/rule out factors that could lead to implantation failures and MCs. First euploid transfer failed, but I'm 18 weeks pregnant with the second euploid from eggs harvested at 43. I was on aspirin and Clexane up to 12 weeks to prevent early MC, though there is no way to rell whether they helped.
I commented with more details to another PGTA question recently and it's in my reply history.
I did IVF in my early 40s, and banked embryos in cycles 2-7. I froze 8 embryos from those. I opted not to do PGT A due to the cumulative risk of defrosting, re-freezing and defrosting again to transfer. Instead, I chose to transfer them one by one.
One of the best quality embryos didn't survive the thaw, and I also experienced one total fertilisation failure. My last cycle gave me a blastocyst that wasn't good enough to freeze. I felt that the risk of PGT A was too high, and besides, I'd had "low risk" events happen in my cycles, so managing risk to protect all my embryos became the priority.
That was the right choice for me, but I was in the mindset of having low expectations and felt I could cope with miscarriage. If I'd been younger and gotten more blastocysts per cycle, I would probably have done PGT A.
Hi Jolene thank you very much for sharing your experience, that’s one of the concerns I have what if we don’t get enough blastocysts , it’s so hard to decide when you don’t know what will happen but in theory they’ll refund if I only get 1 . I hope you have got the positive outcome you deserve, wishing you all the best of luck xx
Hi, I had 6 transfers with untested embryos - all resulted in BFN. Then, for my 7th transfer at the age of 44 I transferred the only euploid embryo I had (besides transferring untested embryos I also tested 10 embryos, with 9 coming back abnormal): it implanted and now I am 30 weeks + 2 days pregnant!
Looking back, given that with the 6 transfers I wasn't even getting a chemical, I feel like my body was rejecting embryos that were anything but 100% genetically healthy. With the 7th transfer, even though my uterine environment was far from perfect (my progesterone level at the time of transfer and 2 weeks after was 16 and I also had a polyp and fibroids), I had a strong BFP on Day 8 after transfer.
Also, having the embryo PGTA tested helped me mentally and provided reassurance during the first 2 trimesters of pregnancy, where you do lots of tests, including NIPT, which tests for chromosomal anomalities...
Hi lovely thank you very much for sharing this and congratulations on your pregnancy, I hope everything keeps going perfectly for you, it’s encouraging to hear stories like yours , although I imagine it would have been very stressful to go through the results ,luckily your only one was a strong one xx
Jumping on the thread to follow. I just had my 3rd failed FET last week. Still have 4 frozen 5 day embryos. Clinic have referred me for further blood tests to check why implantation keeps failing. No idea what they are actually checking for, I asked and just got 'to check why'. Honestly my clinic is useless, how is that a suitable answer.
All mine were collected aged 39, I turn 41 soon. We are in 2 minds whether to bother with PGT testing. Mentally I can cope with further failures. Neither of us cried over the last failure, think we are both just numb to it now and expect it.
Hi I hope you’re well, sorry to hear about your negative, I know what you mean it’s frustrating when they don’t explain you properly. In our case they were not advising to do anything differently or testing … I kept pushing for different things and they’d say they are research have no good ratings by HFEA etc , they even advised against pgta themselves 😂 I asked for it after MMC they said it wasn’t worth it as I only had 2 embryos left .
After 3rd failed transfer they finally checked us for more blood test like thyroid , thrombophilia , and they’ll also increase my progesterone dose earlier . I’d advise you to get a list of all the things you think you should be tested for and ask them for it to be explained.
I know what you mean about being numb, but we need to remain hopeful and keep trying, some people say it’s a numbers game , hopefully we are getting closer to a positive outcome x wishing you all the best of luck
While on the younger end when i went through my IVF (33), i chose to test mine. I had had 3 prior miscarriages. I ended up with only 5 eggs even through we were excepting around 10. 2 immature, 1 semimature and 2 mature. Only the 2 mature fertilized. Once test, only 1 was a normal embryo. I'm glad i tested because it saved me the emotional heartache as the abnormal embryo was high mosaic with a chromosomal abnormality that would most likely have resulted in a miscarriage or a stillbirth with deformities.
Since we only had a single normal embryo I did additional testing to optimize implementation. Found out i had endometriosis and did some treatment for that. 1 year later we finally implanted that frozen embryo and almost a year after that I'm lying next to my 2.5 months old perfectly healthy daughter. It took 2 year from retrieval for me to actually being with my daughter. The process can be long for some of us, but worth it.
hi lovely thank you for spreading the hope, I’m glad you were successful despite all the struggles. I can only imagine how stressful it must have been ! Glad it has helped you to get your little daughter x
I was advised to do pgt-a due to previous miscarriages but I'm also likely to have very few eggs. I have low AMH and low ish AFC. So in two minds but hoping I can decide as it starts going?
Hi lovely sorry to read about your losses, I suppose each clinic has their processes, be sure to ask all these questions . At our clinic you have to decide upfront , I was told that if we get 2 embryos we could go ahead for pgt-a , if less than 2 then they’d refund the cost. Wishing you all the best of luck on your next steps xx
Thank you. It's a real trade off to have MCs and low amh. It's like I have to choose everything because everything contradicts if that makes sense. Ideally you would do pgt when you have lots of eggs, is what I've heard. What happens with less than 2? Can you transfer the one? I'll have pgt consultation next week so hopefully that will help.
Hi lovely this fertility journey is like forever trying to put together the pieces of the puzzle isn’t it ?, I agree slightly easier decision to make if you have many embryos, for us out of 9 fertilised last time only 3 were good enough quality blastocyst at day 5. We were told we could transfer if we get less than two, if doing pgta you have to do frozen transfer as the results take 2-3 weeks then it’s a matter of aligning with your cycle. Make a list of questions, and ask to speak to the scientist to help you understand a bit better everything xx I can DM the links they sent me for reading.
Thank you. Yes do share the links, that would be helpful. I think low amh and over 40s are solving similar problem in that time is not on our side and quantity and quality are going down. Personally I do think if you're getting 3 eggs, it is worth doing pgt, as you are saving time to get pregnant. Especially with failed implantation and MCs. I've also read that if you still get mc and implantation issues with pgt tested embryos, you can push your doctor to find root cause better. If you didn't pgt test, they could always blame chromosomal issues. You get more informed with your body. I saw that MC rate goes down from 25% to 15% which in my view is still reassuring and significant.
Hi lovely you’re absolutely right at least it helps you to discard being a problem with them embryo , that’s exactly the answer we got last time for the MMC. I hope we do manage to get at least same numbers than last time , how many did you get ? The good news is we only need one , so there’s hope xx
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