Is this study on the Chinese herb jujube ... - Cure Parkinson's
Is this study on the Chinese herb jujube for Parkinson's et al common knowledge?
Good find! Not common knowledge here at all.
I am pleased to be able to say this is a good study. That is actually a rare event. They used the A53T mouse, which is a valid model of Parkinson's. They used a low dose of jujube seed powder, Zizyphi spinosi, 0.1 mg per " shot" - so this was apparently injected. Edit - no it was not. See Bolt_Upright comment below. The human equivalent dose comes out to about 20 mg.
Study here: raw.githubusercontent.com/e...
elifesciences.org/reviewed-...
The full name of this Botanical is Ziziphus jujuba Miller var. spinosa, per this article: news-medical.net/news/20241...
They use the hot water extract, which appears to be available at Amazon: amazon.com/BulkSupplements-...
amazon.com/Suan-Zao-Ren-Str...
Both products suggest one gram dosage. Reviewers of both products said it helped them to sleep, which would be a big plus for the likes of us. I placed the Bulk Supplements product on order, and plan to try one gram at bedtime. Some users report taking more. No reports of adverse effects found in the reviews.
According to the report, the extract was not as successful as the ground up seed, so I tried to find whole seed that was not processed in any way. I had little luck at Amazon but did find it at a Chinese online grocery in New York called Po Wing Hong. They sell a 1 pound bag of seed for $26. Shipping is $10, but seems to be worth it since I ordered it this morning and my order has already been shipped. Here's the link:
powingonline.com/products/s...
How are you planning on consuming the ground seeds? Are you going to make a tea, add to food, etc.? Thanks for all of your research!
I read that it can be sour tasting, so I think my PWP and I will both try it added to food, such as yogurt, before bed, because it's a sleep aid. If, after a few weeks, it makes us so brilliant that we come up with something better, we will let. you know!
Any luck yet?
We've only been trying it for five days and plan to do it for 4 weeks of 5 days each. Difficult to determine the correct dosage, but we will report at the end of our trial.
so I am in uk and they have jujube powder on Amazon - would that be the same thing to take? Or do you have to buy the seeds and crush……
Depends upon how the powder was prepared. Is it simply crushed seeds or is it an extract?
the simplest preparation method – crushing the seeds into powder – proved more effective than traditional hot water extraction methods used in Chinese medicine.
I don't think it was injected. Shot seems to be a feeding shot:
"Powdered materials of hot water extract, extraction residue, and non-extracted simple crush powder of ZSS were suspended in water at 0.33 or 1.65 mg/mL by sonication. 300 μL of each suspension (i.e. 0.1 or 0.5 mg material) was orally administered using feeding needles to male and female APP23, Tau784, Huα-Syn(A53T), and wild-type mice 5 days (Monday through Friday) a week for 1 month. "
Thanks!
From the elife link:
"The hot water extract improved mouse memory, but the effect was incomplete (Figure 3A). In contrast, the simple crush powder markedly enhanced mouse memory to a level even higher than that of non-Tg littermates. Subsequently, the simple crush powder and extraction residue were administered to 8-11-month-old mice (mean body weight, 31.2 g) at 0.1 mg/shot for 1 month. Again, the simple crush powder displayed a strong effect on mouse memory (Figure 3B). On the other hand, the extraction residue showed only a moderate effect,"
Seems to me, we should be looking for crushed powder and not extract.
There may be something in the beans that traditional Chinese water extraction doesn't extract. ie. oils....
Regarding the A53T (Parkinson's) mouse:
"ZSS powder was orally administered to 8-month-old mice (mean body weight, 29.8 g) at 0.1 mg/shot for 1 month. Motor function of mice was assessed by the rotarod test. The treatment significantly improved motor function of Tg mice to a level similar to that of non-Tg littermates (Figure 4A). α-Synuclein pathology was assessed by immunohistochemistry. The levels of phosphorylated α-synuclein and α-synuclein oligomers in the hippocampus were significantly reduced by the treatment (Figure 4B)"
A fabulous result. Calculating human equivalent dosage:
.1 mg/ 29.8g, mouse => 3.35 mg/kg, mouse=>.27 mg/kg, human*=>17 mg for 60kg human
which is a tiny amount. Hard to believe. I am inclined to try 1 g/day which is about 60 times more.
*standard adjustment, divide by 12 to adjust for metabolic rate difference
In your research have you ever came across anything that reduced α-Synuclein?
You quoted; "α-Synuclein pathology was assessed by immunohistochemistry. The levels of phosphorylated α-synuclein and α-synuclein oligomers in the hippocampus were significantly reduced by the treatment".... Further reading: "Thus, we examined neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus and substantia nigra. Neurogenesis in Tg mice showed a tendency to decrease in both brain regions (Figure 4D)."
Substantia nigra is the section of the brain most often quoted in PD, This could be a game changer....
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
"Quantification of α-syn immunostaining indicated a significant reduction of α-syn in cinnamon-treated mice relative to the vehicle-treated group...cinnamon treatment decreased the level of insoluble, but not soluble, α-syn in the nigra ofA53T mice... Mice were treated with cinnamon (100 mg/kg body wt/d) ... via gavage for 60d."
Dear park-bear, I assume you prepared the powder according to the recipe in the publication from Umeda et al.2024. May I kindly ask you if this is the right recipe? "The non- extracted simple crush powder and extraction residue of ZSS were prepared in our laboratory. Dried ZSSwas sterilized at 115 °C for 1.5 h, crushed using a hammer mill, and passed through a 3 mm screen. The obtained crude powder was put through a vibrating sieve (500 μm of mesh), and the passed through material was collected as simple crush powder. The simple crush powder was added to 14 volumes of water, heated at 90 °C for 3 h, and put through a 5 μm filter. The residue on the filter was dried at 40 °C under reduced pressure and collected as extraction residue." This is a very time consuming procedure. I had no hammer mill therefore I took my coffee grinder. In the end after the drying process I had a brown looking powder not knowing how much I have to take per day. What is the amount you are taking? Is the colour of your powder brown as well or did I something wrong? The strange thing I realized was that after I had finished the preparation I got extremely tired.
Oh my. I didn't get that far. I took their description "simple crushed powder" literally and simply took the crushed seed powder without filtering it through a screen or mesh. I did not sterilize. Currrently taking about 75 mg 2x daily. May increase dosage, but I believe 1 gram is too much for me.
The part that starts with adding water is to make the extract from the powder.
I obtained extract by purchasing online from Amazon. It is a brown powder.
I found a product with "Full Spectrum Jujube Fruit, 675mg Caps". Google indicates 30 to 39 percent of fruit is seeds. I wouldn't think 175mg would be too much. I am assuming full spectrum fruit would include seeds, but maybe not - you eat an apple and throw away the seeds.
Swanson Full Spectrum Jujube Fruit (item SW1166) is referred to as a “full-spectrum” or “whole-fruit,” because it’s the whole complete fruit with seed, unadulterated, dried and put in pill form.
I emailed Swanson’s: Does Full Spectrum Jujube Fruit include seeds of the Fruit? It should or it's not Full Spectrum... They forwarded to their product specialists for review… The final reply was as above.
Now Out of Stock, I received 3 bottles yesterday...
Now back in stock swansonvitamins.com/p/swans...
Thank you! It's surprising that we haven't identified this earlier at CP. While researching online, I came across numerous older studies that highlight the antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective properties of jujube. These studies suggest that jujube extracts may help improve sleep quality, reduce anxiety, and enhance overall brain function, all of which are highly relevant for PWP.
I would love to plant a few jujube trees in my garden to harvest the red dates myself. However, I understand that they require a warmer climate to thrive.
The hunt for red dates is on! in traditional Chinese medicine, jujube is used in formulas that tonify/support SHEN, problems with which cause the issues the studies find jujube ameliorates. Red dates or jujubes can be found in most Asian markets as can Chinese formulas containing the ground seed. Both inexpensive. Markets can be found in the most unlikely places, sometimes a few shelves in a restaurant.
The study states that the best way to take the seeds is by crushing them.
“Furthermore, when the seeds were simply crushed into powder and administered to the model mice, the team discovered that the cognitive function of the model mice recovered to a level above that of control mice. In addition, the powders apparently suppressed cellular aging in older mice and improved their cognitive function to a similar level as younger mice.”
Does anyone know where to get crushed Jujube seeds?
Seeds are available at Amazon. You could crush them in a coffee grinder.
I bought whole seeds and will use a coffee grinder:
Does anyone have experience with jujube seed as a supplement?
I have taken it for two decades as part of traditional Chinese herbal prescriptions. I can vouch that they do help with sleep. they are found in many reputable available sleep remedies. Also, most Asian markets carry them!
Hi Bhaktitoo, thanks for sharing. If you are a Parkinson's patient it would be useful, for the community, to know if the various symptoms of the disease have also improved. And which ones possibly.
??
I didn't ignore you, am just coping with multiple complex illnesses and fatigue
I don't know whether I have Parkinson's, I have essential tremor. my grandfather had Parkinson's. I have intractable severe insomnia and have had for more than 20 years. I have anxiety depression dx, a rare poly endocrine autoimmune disorder and the thyroid meds and cortisol I take worsen the anxiety and tremor. I have neuropathy and Raynaud's. I have a host of neuro issues
For me, zizyphus formulae have been very helpful with insomnia, anxiety, mood and generalized distress/hypervigilence. I have never taken it by itself and the proportion of ZSS contained varies by formula--it's often a helper herb not one of the leads.
In the last year, I switched up my insomnia/anxiety herbs because I find they lose efficacy or cause allergies long-term but a break can restore it. it may be coincidence that some SX have worsened/appeared since I last took any regularly, especially since I was only focused on getting relief from insomnia and anxiety. And it's been a while so cannot say whether my tremor improved At the same time, sorry
I did not know that ZSS might help with PD sx until I read this thread.
I will be buying some seeds myself now
Hi Bhaktitoo, I didn't want to rush you but sometimes a post can slip through the cracks. I hope you can resolve your health problems as soon as possible. As for jujube seeds, I don't think they can alleviate Parkinson's symptoms. It seems too easy to me. Nevertheless however I purchased some powder in GB. I wish you the best.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have done some research and have ordered some of the powder from AmazonUK and will be trying this out. I will get back to you all in a few weeks time to share my findings
amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C...
thanks for sharing information, I have purchased 1 pack, will update once I will start using it
Thank you very much for link. I ordered too. Can you tell me howit should be taken and in what quantity?
same product in USA amazon.com/gp/product/B0C45...
I'd like to give this a try. What would folks recommend to do with the powder? Mix in water or make into capsules? Some other way to take?
Thank you all for your comments. Please keep us apprised, you forerunners of intelligent discerning thought. We pay attention to you folks on this difficult Parkinson's trek.
I have done a little research and it seems that some seeds are raw and some are cooked or fried. Which is preferable?
Sounds like a great way to wreck your coffee grinder! After many years grinding herbs I can attest the VitaMix is one of the few tools can crack a nut as tough as that of the seed of the jujube 🙂
I’d like to try this too. I guess I would have to ask my dr this question but are there any interactions noted with other meds? (Ssri for example)
Anybody find and organic jujube seed powder?
Great find Tripple. I look forward to reading everyone’s trials 😃. For me EBay was the quickest for delivery and I’ve went for the seeds. I’ll crush when I get them.
250g Semen ziziphi spinosae Wild Jujube Seed suan zao ren sleep aid vege caps😃
anyone got any views on this please? (If I understand correctly it’s saying double strength seed based) Maybe one to transition to rather than start from?
vitaherbalnutrition.com/pro...
And sorry to go all Monty Python but is there a difference between Indian and Chinese Jujube?
I hope everyone is having a blessed day.
There is a lot more detail here about where the researchers obtained and prepared the jujuba powder:
Since they were using a feeding tube, the powder had to be suspended in something.
I envision a feeding tube as a syringe full of paste.
It’s been a few weeks. Has anyone tried, which whole fruit or just seeds, what dose and what were your results?
For anyone wanting to try this, a good place to find the seeds is in Chinese medicine shops. I live in Thailand and there are many Chinese medicine shops here selling the seeds and the powder. They use the Chinese name here which is: Suan Zao Ren.
I'm originally from London, so if I were there now, my first stop would be China Town.
Also here is an image with the Chinese name, English-Chinese name, so perhaps take this image into the Chinese medicine shop and show the staff. Hope it helps.
Anyone finding this helpful?
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