Citicoline and choline contain the trimethylamine structure which can be detached by gut bacteria into standalone trimethylamine. Trimethylamine is toxic. Excessive intake of choline results in a dramatic increase in the risk of cardiovascular disease. My writing on this subject here: tinyurl.com/2p8jjuf8
"It is hypothesized that, compared to choline moiety in other dietary sources such as phosphatidylcholine, choline in citicoline is less prone to conversion to trimethylamine (TMA) " [Emphasis added] This is merely an hypothesis which has not been validated by laboratory testing.
On the other hand I've experienced a bit of numbness in my toes when I have ingested things that are detrimental to my circulation. After taking 1,000 mg of citicoline for about a week I began again experiencing that numbness, so I will be stopping this particular experiment.
I have also added the foregoing warning to my post Laurie Mischley on Using High DHA Fish Oil and Citicoline to Reduce Levodopa-Induced Dyskinesia, located here: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
Update - If you are already taking citicoline, have no adverse indications, and have reason to believe it is doing you some good, my advice is to get your TMAO blood level checked before too long. Based on that result you can back off if your level is high.
If you are taking a lot of levodopa, wish to reduce your dosage, and would like to try citicoline for that purpose, my advice is to monitor your TMAO levels.
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park_bear
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Worth noting these things but it seems appropriate to consider the entirety of the evidence.
Citicoline has been used for decades - both as an approved drug and a supplement - and safety issues have not been raised. Indeed, its excellent side-effect profile is perhaps the standout feature of the literature.
It has been widely used in the elderly and those already vascularly compromised, and yet cardiac issues have not been flagged.
There are cardiac red flags in the choline literature - in animal and human studies. Not so with citicoline.
Is there any study that actually measured TMAO levels as a result of citicoline supplementation? It is very frustrating to find a recent study like this: sciencedirect.com/science/a...
Citicoline and Memory Function in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial
Where they were aware of the TMAO issue, but neglected to actually make any measurements. This is a standard blood test at Labcorp and Quest.
I have added to my posts the suggestion that people using citicoline monitor their TMAO levels as an alternative to abandoning it.
Looks like TMAO principally causes a problem through its tendency to damage blood vessels..principally the endothelium. Most everything I've seen indicates that citcoline is vasculo-protective.
We don't know if citicoline pushes TMAO levels up. We do know that cold water fish tends to contain both TMA and TMAO, that consumption of eg salmon can result in higher TMAO...but that ultimately these things tend to be cardio-protective.
I agree with garygjs that we should be careful about vilifying cholinergic substances, including (maybe especially) citicoline. Choline is an essential nutrient that's vital for brain function and deficiency predisposes one to cognitive decline. And there is new evidence of cholinergic degeneration in PD; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....
"There is increasing interest in the clinical effects of cholinergic basal forebrain and tegmental pedunculopontine complex (PPN) projection degeneration in Parkinson’s disease (PD). Recent evidence supports an expanded role beyond cognitive impairment, including effects on olfaction, mood, REM sleep behavior disorder, and motor functions."
Those trying a low sulphur diet in an attempt to discourage desulfovibrio need to be careful. They could be dramatically lowering their choline levels, since the two are found in many of the same foods. Perhaps get one of those apps that analyzes one's food intake for nutrients? Sulphur is also important in the production of glutathione, arguably the body's most important antioxidant.
Citicoline appears not to elevate TMAO very much, and I really doubt Dr. Mischley would recommend it if it had substantial cardiovascular effects.
Agree that choline is necessary in appropriate amounts. Of course Dr Mischley would not recommend something known to be detrimental, but our knowledge in this matter is incomplete.
The amount by which citicoline elevates TMA is unknown, unless you have actual data that speaks to this issue. Cardiovascular effects take a long time to manifest. Increased risk may not be obvious without a study tracking the matter. In this case risk is known to be the result of high levels of TMA. TMAO is a marker for TMA. I advise people taking citicoline, especially at a thousand milligrams per day, to have their TMAO levels checked. You can call this advice whatever you like but I call it good sense.
How about reducing the citicoline instead of dropping it altogther to see if your numbness improves? I have neuropathy in my feet but only on 300 mg of citicoline, which I started about 4 weeks ago. Huge improvements for me in stiffness, levodopa efficiency, reduced levodopa and no more dyskinesia. No additional numbness in my feet as a result of starting citicoline. I am on gabapentin, 300 mg a day for the neuropathy.
Park Bear, you said..."Cardiovascular effects take a long time to manifest." That's why I don't think TMAO is to blame for your numbness. Atherosclerosis wouldn't develop or worsen that quickly. And vasoconstriction isn't a likely cause either, as citicoline is known for improving circulation. Have you considered the possibility that nerves in your feet might be responding to improved micro-circulation?
Anyway, those who want to try citicoline could start with small doses, as BeedieBird suggests. And they could consider supplementing with things that inhibit TMAO, like Vit. D, fish oil, berberine and 3,3-Dimethyl-1-butanol. The latter is found in olive oil, balsamic vinegar, grapeseeds and red wine, and may contribute to the Mediterranean diet's heart healthy reputation. Fish oil's ability to inhibit TMAO production might explain why fish is heart healthy, even though it contains high levels of TMA.
Those who want to be super cautious can do as you suggest and test their TMAO levels, no doctor's orders required. walkinlab.com/products/view...
There's more to it and I'm not going to get into all the details except to say that it has been medically diagnosed as a circulatory problem and I believe that diagnosis is correct.
Here is a summary of TMAO related to diet, and includes links to more the short videos related to TMAO and diet at the bottom. This info is gathered and evaluated from the peer-reviewed nutrition research:
It is not specific to citicoline supplementation, but it is pointing to a vegan diet limiting your ability to produce TMAO, which sounds like a possible strategy to avoid the potential TMAO problem.
From the link: “TMAO, short for trimethylamine oxide, was identified when the blood of patients who had experienced a heart attack or stroke was compared to the blood of those who hadn’t. The more TMAO people had in their blood, the more likely they were to go on to suffer a heart attack, stroke, or otherwise die prematurely. Where does TMAO come from? Just as short-chain fatty acids are produced by good bacteria in our gut when we eat fiber, TMAO originates from bad bacteria in our gut when we eat lots of choline (concentrated in eggs, but also lecithin supplements) or carnitine (concentrated in meat, but also some energy drinks).
If you eat eggs or meat, you get a bump in TMAO levels within hours, unless you recently took antibiotics that wipe out your gut flora. In that case, it can be weeks before your bad bacteria grow back. Alternately, you can prevent the growth of these bad bacteria by not feeding them in the first place. Feed a vegan a steak, and they make virtually no TMAO, presumably because they hadn’t been fostering the growth of steak-eating bacteria.
The egg and beef industries funded a joint study that showed TMAO levels were lowest after eating the non-egg and non-beef control food: fruit. Even relatively choline-rich plant foods don’t seem to cause a problem. For example, two ounces of pistachios every day actually seemed to cause a reduction in levels.
TMAO may help explain why those who eat more plant-based diets are more protected from heart disease. ”
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DHA for dyskinesia also improving sleep?
ARE YOU A NON TREMOR DOMINANT PD PATIENT WITH DYSKINESIA? IF SO, PLEASE HELP.
