B1 FACTS, FORMS, FUNCTIONS: youtube.com... - Cure Parkinson's
B1 FACTS, FORMS, FUNCTIONS
I am unclear as to why we're not all using sulbitiamine instead of HCl, since Dr. Constantini said he prescribes HCl only because its cheaper, not bioavailability, while mechanism of action of sulbitiamine is identical, but it more easily crosses the BBB.
Me too - though it is slightly apples and oranges as sulbitiamine is a synthetic derivative of thiamine. It seems to have a longer list of side effects. It is popular as a smart drug - hence the video. Is anyone here taking it?
hi MBAnderson
In three years of thiamine hcl Intramuscolare injections two or three times a week I have never had any side effects, after a few hours I think the excess body is exhausted, this in my opinion is a strong point in the long-term use of thiamine HCL compared to other forms. BBB? who knows how it works? but it works. As for my very short experience with thiamine in pills I want to say that changes compared to injections for obvious reasons of assimilation intestines, but I would explore an alternate way to simulate injections ie a high dose in pills followed by a break in the day and so on, but only a hypothesis that I suggest.
Thanks for this. My wife's doctor's mother had Parkinson's so he's pretty generous with prescribing off label, so I think I'll try him.
Sulbutiamine was designed with the purpose to readily reach the brain barrier and rapidly increase thiamine levels in the brain. In US it is mostly considered as a nootropic and can be purchased as a dietary supplement at a relative low cost. In Europe Sulbutiamine is sold as a low-cost pharmaceutical with the brand name ARCALION primarily for the treatment of fatigue both mental and physical and for asthenia (abnormal physical weakness or lack of energy). All those symptoms are very common among PD patients. The treatment of PD with Thiamine as a derivative has been described well before any recent studies. The manufacturer of Arcalion the pharmaceutical French company SERVIER - LES LABORATOIRES servier.com/ hold studies and patents on methods of treatments of PD with Sulbutiamine patents.google.com/patent/U.... Therefore it might not be possible for third parties to claim subultiamine as their own treatment method of PD, even though it may turn out to be more effective than other forms of thiamine. According to the manufacturer of Arcalion: Sulbutiamine is rapidly absorbed and peak blood concentrations are reached between 1 and 2 hours after administration The half-life is approximately 5 hours. Elimination is by the urinary route meppo.com/pdf/drugs/155-ARC... . Therefore any side effects are usually not long lasting
With Sulbutiamine possibly a dosage of up to 10 times less than thiamine HCl may be as effective to reach a therapeutic dosage. The typical dosage with Sulbutiamine is 400mg. This is one of most common dosages used in studies. It is also cost effective since much less dosage may be needed to achieve similar results. As a lipid soluble compound, there may be no need to take Sulbutiamine on daily basis, contrary to Thiamine HCl. The positive effects usually appear in less than a month. Once the condition is stabilized the effects may persist for longer after discontinuation. Therefore breaks or a very low maintenance dosage may be possible with Sulbutiamine. Most studies with Sulbutiamine lasted 2-3 months However safety is not evaluated in any longer term studies with sulbultiamine or even with high doses of Thiamine.
Regarding PD some reasoning of its mechanism of action can be found in the following study. "Evidence for a modulatory effect of sulbutiamine on glutamatergic and dopaminergic cortical transmissions in the rat brain". …. In the same treated animals, an increase of D1 dopaminergic (DA) binding sites was measured both in the prefrontal and the cingular cortex, while no modification of the D2 binding sites was detected. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/147...
The dynamics and kinetics of complex molecules in the body is not simple and difficult to model. There are buffer stores, passive diffusion and active transport...It’s all driven by the demand for B1 and making sure that there’s always excess wherever it’s needed
Injections cut out the gut transport barriers. Plasma regulation takes over. Topping up reserves including the brain. The brain reserve builds slowly and must be maintained as it is used up. Consistently high plasma levels are required
Injections are not available to me because I get my healthcare at the VA and they cannot prescribe anything that's not on their formulary for an illness, so which of the 2 do you feel is best?
Would Internists or GPs prescribe B1 injections at the patient's request? We have just filed a claim with VA. . .service connected PD.
If you are asking if it VA doctor will prescribe thiamine injections, I think not. Their guidelines do not allow them to prescribe anything that's not on their formulary for an illness, i.e., they cannot prescribe off label. I've tried.
Not in VA, but South.
It probably doesn’t matter. The very high levels should ensure that there’s always some readily available. Injections are fast, fat soluble formulation less fast and water soluble the slowest.
Also consider Dr Cs adjustments if levels overshoot
Oh! It's HCI. I have been calling it HCL all this time. It works either way, thank goodness.
Yeah, me too. I'm just looking at the label again and I now notice its actually HCI. But then it doesn't make sense because its supposed to stand for HydroChloride which (eventhough i never did chemistry beyond secondary school) I know is HCL. ..... hang on.....
hmmmm ..... I just googled now and Wikipedia and everywhere else calls it "HydroChloride acid" with it formula as HCI
Wow, so we noobs were all wrong then hahaha 
HCI is correct, but many people use hcl.
Art
It’s H+ Cl-
Hydrogen ion positively charged in water and Chlorine negatively charged chloride ion.
cf H2O two hydrogen ions and Oxygen two negative charges
Need subscripts on this tablet keyboard
Just for the record:
Thiamine HCl is a bit more complicated because it’s an organic (carbon based) salt and it ionises in water producing HCl in equilibrium with Cl- , H+ and “thiamine+” ions
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