recent commment

[collydog]

hi read just now that someone's DXA had improved ?? what was your regime? diet for your achievement as ive been told it is not reversible?? and would love to know more????

[olive2709]

Go down 2posts HeronNS is the person

[HeronNS]

Hi, Olive is right, 'tis I! I was diagnosed, incorrectly as it turned out, with osteoporosis a little over a year ago. In fact it was "only" osteopenia or low bone mass. But I was terrified of the op meds and did a lot of reading. Mostly I was helped and encouraged by a friend who had been diagnosed with osteoporosis and had opted for a completely natural regimen. Through diet, supplements and exercise she had moved from osteoporosis to osteopenia, and continued to improve. So I followed her example. My story was a bit more clouded as I have been on prednisone (steroid) since June 2015 but I thought it would be worth trying to improve without the medication my doctor wanted me to take. When I saw her the other day to get results of a one year later follow up DXA scan she was very pleased with my progress and asked me how I had done it!

Vitamin K2, special bone health supplement using calcium hydroxyapatite as that supposed to be better absorbed by people on pred. Healthy diet with a lot of leafy greens, not too much liquid milk but I do consume cheese, kefir, yoghurt. Don't eat many grains any more, hardly any wheat except for treats. I also have a low sugar consumption, except fruit.

Exercise, aim for 10,000 steps every day, do Nordic walking about three times a week, am learning tai chi and should really practice it more. I also have exercises for my arthritic back, and my physiotherapist has given me more to help straighten my spine. In fact the technician had to move me slightly for thee second scan so that I was in the same position as last year, and it was actually painful for me to hold the pose, my slight scoliosis having pretty much disappeared!

There has been a study proving that micronutrients can improve bone density.

hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2...

[HeronNS in reply to HeronNS]

Should tell you that in one year my t-score moved from -2 to -1.6, although my pred dose was over 5 mg for half that time. I still am taking pred, but lower dose now.

[collydog in reply to HeronNS]

thanks sooooooo much - I spoke to my pilates teacher and she was of the same mind - which just gives me such a boost --- and hope!!! ive started calcium and vit d tablets - and now doing pilates every day and power walking - running - lots of press ups - calcium enriched bread - greens - soya -- so fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!!and being in touch with others is totally fab fab fab xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[HeronNS in reply to collydog]

I'm not the only one this has worked for. I personally know two other women who have improved their bone density through nutrition and exercise only, and another person has posted here not long ago with really startling results! We have all confirmed this through our followup DXA scans.

Of course as Bkin says there may be other confounding issues, and it may be those people who need the medications. (Although I'd suggest that even these people should also improve their nutrition and exercise if they can.) But I'd say for the majority of us if we catch it early enough we can fix things naturally. It isn't easy, it takes time and effort, but oh so worth it!

[Hidden in reply to HeronNS]

What's wrong with milk? I thought it was supposed to be good,lots of calcium etc.

[HeronNS in reply to Hidden]

I only know what I have read, from what I consider reliable sources. Calcium in milk also comes with a lot of protein, which contains phosphorus, and getting too much of that element can be hard on the bones. So enjoy your milk in moderation but don't rely on it as your main source of dietary calcium. Some leafy greens are better. There are high rates of osteoporosis in countries which have high dairy intake.

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...

[Hidden in reply to HeronNS]

Don't know if you noticed but 95% of all foods listed as high in calcium contain one or more of the 3 chemicals that should not be eaten within 2hrs of calcium.I have written to the National Osteoporosis Society for clarification but so far no response.

[HeronNS in reply to Hidden]

What are those three chemicals? I know iron doesn't mix with calcium. But I also suspect that there's a difference between the organic forms of chemicals found in foods and the inorganic we may be given in supplements. Just speculation but, after all, we did evolve as animals designed to get our nourishment from eating other creatures, plants and animals!

[Hidden in reply to HeronNS]

The three chemicals are Phytic Acid, Oxalic Acid, and Phosphate. You can find this info in the leaflet that comes with the Adcal-D3 tablets. Under the heading "Adcal-D3 Lemon with food. The list of foods that contain these chemicals is almost everything. So why they don't just say don't eat within 2hrs of taking Adcal I don't know. Apparently these chemicals bind with the calcium making it impossible for the body to use it.

[HeronNS in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for info. I don't live in UK, don't get adcal. On the other hand, I find I need to have something to eat with my calcium supplement. I think we can get carried away with this stuff. After all we should be getting most of our calcium from food, which is nothing but a bundle of chemicals, so I'm not going to stress about it. Obviously whatever I'm doing (and I do have my calcium with food) seems to be working just fine!

[Hidden in reply to HeronNS]

Yes I agree with you this is why I have written for clarification. Will let you know when I get a response.

[Hidden in reply to HeronNS]

finally, I got a response.They directed me to the following website nos.org.uk/media/1576/b-fur...

This covers the bit about milk and about Phytic and Oxalic acid.

Hope this is useful.

[HeronNS in reply to Hidden]

interesting. I do note that their info about Vitamin K is not really up to date. Must distinguish between Vitamin K1, readily available in foods, and K2 which is nearly absent in the modern Western diet, and is the vitamin which helps calcium go into the bones.

[Met00 in reply to HeronNS]

This is really helpful. I was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago with Osteoporosis in the back and hips, with a high risk of future broken back. I tried Alendronic Acid, then Risedronate, but neither of these suited me and the more I read up on the subject, the less inclined I was to take bisphosponates. So for the past 18months I've been relying on diet, exercise and supplements alone. I did ask for a repeat DEXA Scan last year, but was told it was too soon, so I have no idea yet whether this regime has made any difference! But reading your post (and some similar ones elsewhere), I'm very encouraged that this approach may well improve my bone strength.

[Bkin]

It will depend on a lot of things collydog, some people may be deficient in diet, medications that may interfere with nutrient absorption, illnesses that impact on digestive disorders all will impact on bone health, but for sure there are things that we can try to do to help improve bone health.

You may be interested in reading the experience of another who has had some improvement:

forum.nos.org.uk/21984/Dexa...

[HeronNS in reply to Bkin]

Interesting, somewhat different experience to mine, of course. I have a bit of a confounding factor in that many years ago I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis. As the only symptom was an enlarged lymph node which was removed and biopsied I never thought much about it. But I was found to have a high Vitamin D level last spring so don't seem able to take D supplements - hard to avoid because it's in all the calcium supplements and there is that little thing called the sun.... Sarcoidosis can cause bone thinning, low iron and high Vitamin D, all of which I have. It's hard to eat enough broccoli and kale, even with cheese, etc., I worry about getting enough calcium. I'm still on prednisone for PMR but now at a low dose which I hope has a negligible effect on bones.

[Met00 in reply to HeronNS]

It's possible to get a calcium supplement without Vitamin D. I have Calcichew 500mg tablets on prescription, but these are Calcium Carbonate so have just ordered Calcium Citrate powder from Amazon as this is supposed to be better absorbed with less risk to the kidneys and heart. I do take a high level Vit D supplement, but get most of my calcium from diet so only take a very small amount of calcium supplement to keep my calcium levels within the normal range.

[HeronNS in reply to Met00]

Recently paid privately to be retested and Vitamin D level is now low normal, which I think is ideal at the end of winter! I'm eligible for another test through our medical system as of the end of May, but I'm going to wait until autumn to get a post summer picture, and then I'll know better how much Vitamin D is good for me.

[Met00 in reply to HeronNS]

You may be interested that I was advised by an orthopaedic consultant to increase my Vit D levels to 75nmol/ml or over, ideally over 100nmol/ml! I'm not convinced about over 100, but there's quite a bit of evidence that levels over 75nmol/ml are better for bone health than the current NHS recommended level of over 50nmol/ml. For example the Vitamin D council recommendations can be found here. It's an American website, so you need to convert ng/ml to nmol/ml (measure used in UK) by multiplying by 2.5: vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

Or see UK site VitaminD Society: vitamindsociety.org/benefit...

[HeronNS in reply to Met00]

I have to be very careful because the granulomas of sarcoidosis actually activate Vitamin D, so the body is not properly regulating the levels. I reduced my level from 169 last year at the end of winter, so I am very happy it is 80 now, at the end of this winter having taken, I have to say, a minimal supplement for the past year. It gives me some room to enjoy the sun, and then find out what a change of seasons does to my levels.

[Met00 in reply to HeronNS]

That sounds very complicated for you! I've only just got my level up above 80 after 3 1/2 years of supplements. It started at 47!

[HeronNS in reply to Met00]

It would be easier if medicare covered Vitamin D test more than once a year. I got a private one done, and with the cost of the prescribing naturopath and the lab test it was well over $200. That is partially covered by my husband's retiree medical plan, but still... At least I am allowed one test a year, free to me, and I think having it at a time where my level is likely to be high will be more useful. Apparently I'm only allowed it because I'm "at risk". People who have no known risk factors are just put on D supplements as most people are low. Just think, if my non-symptomatic sarcoidosis hadn't been diagnosed through biopsy of a swollen lymph node many years ago, I'd likely have a toxic level by now because I'd be concentrating on making my bones stronger!

[Met00 in reply to HeronNS]

Scary! My osteoporosis was only found because a broken toe wasn't healing up and bone thinning eventually showed on xray. At the moment my GP allows me Vit D and calcium blood tests 3 times a year!

[HealthStrength]

A recent DXA scan my side also showed improvement (double-fold, I like to think, as not only was the bone-mass not diminishing, there were signs of slight increase. Only a few %, but not bad in the light of 'steroid-induced osteoporosis'. I've been taking steroids, in varying dosages, for over 30 years.) I'd second many of HeronNS's recommendations: healthy diet, supplements, exercise. Many of the supplements I take are prescribed: Vit D and Alendronic Acid, additional calcium in the early days. Also take general multivitamins (not prescribed and the verdict is out on whether these actually do any good). I reckon a wholesome diet is a good start (interestingly, like HeronNS I consume few cow's milk products but not for bone-density reasons). Then pursue some light exercise, perhaps increasing to weight-bearing exercise when you are strong enough. I second HeronNS on exercise incl Tai Chi , which I have done for 7 years - and have progressed now to quite an intensive level, more like Kung Fu with punching, falling and so on! Yes, even with concerns about fractures (please don't do this at home kids!! :)). Have also done yoga for ages, plus dancing and walking in the woods. I believe exercise has really helped, particularly press-ups and the weight-bearing activities. If one adopts the belief that bone density is also related to muscle strength (as I have approached it), slowly building muscle strength could be been part of the bigger picture. However, it has taken about 3 years to reach the physical strength, and the DXA result is after a decade of scans and dedication. And at the end of the day, just thank and love your body - it's working hard for you. Good luck!

[HeronNS in reply to HealthStrength]

I believe you are right about the muscles. There is a lady posting on the Patient site who has such serious issues she cannot walk or carry weights, but she does a kind of water exercise, so although swimming is not considered particularly good for bone density (the water is bearing your weight) improving muscular strength IS good, because the muscles themselves stress the bones!

[HeronNS]

Just to clarify, Alendronic Acid isn't a "supplement". It works by preventing osteoclasts from removing old bone, which means more bone is built up, relatively speaking. The reason it's recommended not to take AA indefinitely is because eventually the old matrix becomes too brittle, the osteoclasts having been hindered in their ability to perform proper bone remodelling. A bit of a balancing act for those who feel they really have no choice but to take AA and its relatives. HealthStrength is doing so much more to help bone health than taking the meds! Well done!