Research

[magnilink]

is there any research into getting rid of plaques in your arteries, I have a small one and was told to take statins, but they only slow progression and from what I can gather statins have been the only answer for 40 years!!!

[Hidden]

My understanding is that not only do statins reduce cholesterol and so help prevent further plaque laydown but they also stabilise that which is already laid down, which means that it is less likely that chunks break off. And also current medical thinking is that you cannot reverse plaque laydown.

So the medical recommendation is to take statins to reduce your heart risk, with the only significant drawback being you may suffer side effects, although the vast majority apparently do not, and even then changing statins may solve the problem. I have taken statins for over 20 years to good effect as have others on here apparently.

All that said there will be naysayers who will try to convince you shouldn't go near them. So in the end you rely on either conventional medical thinking and advice or Dr Google or his companion Dr Facebook.

[LivingandLaughing in reply to Hidden]

This is a great summary of what i was told just yesterday by my cardio nurse. I had a 99% blocked RCA and two others at 50 and 55 which I have been told are moderate and won’t be stented at this stage. My cholesterol had shot up from 4.6 to 7.6 over two years, despite me being vegetarian, on a fairly healthy diet, never smoked and always do some form of exercise. Having taken statins for around two months, my cholesterol is now 2.3! I was worried about taking them but did so as my condition is believed to be genetic/not due to lifestyle, so there wasn’t much choice for me. No side effects and I feel great. I am very pro statins now and ignore all the bad press I previously believed.

[Bradshaw278 in reply to Hidden]

I am on 8Omg Atoravastatin every night. From talking to other patients that dosage is quite common these days. It keeps my cholesterol low but one Consultant told me that its effectiveness is over a ten year period. I have no side effects. I also take Ramapril and have been told that the higher dose I can tolerate the better regarding prolonging life. Due to blood pressure and possible fainting I have to stay on a low dose. These are long distance in prolonging your life, not medication to solve a short term problem. I resisted statins for many years and wish now that I had taken them from my forties onwards when advised to do so by my GP, especially given my family history of heart problems.

[Hidden in reply to Bradshaw278]

If it's any re-assurance to you, given what you have said about a 10 year 'life' for statins, I have been taking Atorvastatin for over 20 years and am now also on the maximum 80mg dose and they still remain effective. In fact I have recently had my best ever total cholesterol reading, which may in some part be down to a programme of weight loss this summer, but nonetheless is still mostly due to the statins I take.

[MONIREN]

I would be careful, my old gp refused to put me on that junk, after it was suggested by specialist. I ended up having a heart attack. At the time, I was on a home cure for plaque for totally other reason, I still had 100% blockage. Maybe, if I had the gp I'm under now, might not have started my heart journey. It is your choice. Take care. Moni

[MONIREN]

By the way, gp called statins junk, not me!!

[Fynndog]

I usually just read the messages here and mostly am very grateful for the helpful and very kind responses . Until it comes to statins and the constant comments about hardly anyone having problems with them.

When you find yourself post heart attack your world is tipped upside down , most of us will strive to change things to help ourselves. Many of us have dreadful teething problems with the meds we have to ingest but we listen to our specialists and just get on with it.

Then when you are feeling so dreadful that you wonder if life is worth living and you know the cause is one of the medications that are supposed to be helping you is actually doing the complete opposite you ask for help either from the doctor or like myself ask questions here.

I am very very intollerant to statins I have tried several and they all made me extremely ill so I always feel a bit peeved when I keep reading ( almost suggestions) that those who cannot tolerate statins are just simply reading too much in Google.

[Partner20 in reply to Fynndog]

There are, unfortunately, some people who are unable to tolerate certain medications or supplements, whichever type or brand is taken. This is not always realised by those who have no intolerances or sensitivities, which is why their recommendations can seem at times unsympathetic or even dictatorial. My partner needs calcium supplementation, but is unable to medicate for thus due to dangerous and unacceptable side-effects, so I completely understand your situation and what you are trying to express.

[Fynndog in reply to Partner20]

thank you for your thoughtful reply. Your partners intolerance /allergy has led you to this understanding. I wish others would hold back with their throw away answers.

[Partner20 in reply to Fynndog]

Thank you! It is very much like those who advocate certain diets, not realising that many of us are actually unable to tolerate certain types of food, however beneficial they could be.

[Fynndog in reply to Partner20]

I’m sure that must be quite a problem too . We have to deal with all these anomalies in life , it really doesn’t help hearing other peoples sweeping statements. Almost implies that the other person is too foolish to Sort themselves out .

[Hidden in reply to Fynndog]

It is truly unfortunate that you are in the minority who are unable to take statins when they have been prescribed for you, especially in the circumstances that you describe when coming to terms with your new situation. On that you have certainly my sympathy.

However I believe it is harsh to condemn those who offer a point of view which supports the medical recommendations about statin use perhaps based on their own experience, with the caveat that statins may not be suitable for all. Certainly as I understand it BHF who run this forum are supportive of statins. Some people may have doubts about taking statins based on claims about them being bad for you, so must be a good thing if they read the good things about them, so that they can consider all the pros and cons and make a balanced decision on whether they should take them or not. And it is only foolish if those concerned about taking statins or indeed any prescribed medication, do not consider how it will affect them if they do or don't take that medication.

That aside, as I understand it, there are medication alternatives to statins for those who cannot tolerate them, and some on here appear to be taking those alternatives, so if you have not already gone down that route with your GP it may be worth pursuing that to see if it will help your situation.

[Fynndog in reply to Hidden]

thank you for replying. Yes you are right in everything you say. And yes I’m taking Esetimibe these last 5 months . Not as effective as statins and I’ve yet to ascertain how they are affecting me.

I have no problem with anything anyone writes, just pedantry. There are many many people who cannot tolerate statins not all have the same effect as myself, I just find a particular type of answer rather irritating.

When you are sitting reading these most helpful and caring replies maybe not feeling your best and then read certain ones referring to too much Google searching, it can be the last straw

[Coxtribe]

I concur with the earlier comments. I asked the same question of a cardiac nurse and they confirmed that some research had been carried out regarding how to reduce existing plaque deposits however the lifestyle changes I'd have to make would mean my "my life would not be worth living". Interesting turn of phrase but it helped me to understand the implications!!

So, as commented previously, statins have to additional benefits of stabilising any existing deposits but not reducing those that exist already.

[Hidden in reply to Coxtribe]

I can endorse the comment made by your cardiac nurse. Over 20 years ago I was told I had a cholesterol level over 9 and embarked on a programme of lifestyle changes to reduce it, although by most people's standards it was already 'healthy'. My diet became a misery, not only for me, but also for my wife who at the time was mostly responsible for preparing the food. The best I ever achieved was 6.5 and subsequently it rose as my resolve weakened. So in the end I ended up on statins, which made a far more significant reduction without the angst, with a comment by my GP of the day of 'I told you so!'. I have been on them ever since and am one of the fortunate ones who can tolerate them, even at the max dose which I am now on following an NSTEMI four years ago..

[Mac-beats]

Read the book ‘Undo It’ by Dean Ornish, which outlines dietary and lifestyle approaches to dealing with heart disease and arterial plaques. I personally follow the approach promulgated in this book but ALSO take statins too. I see the approach in the book as a significant adjunct to my medication protocol.

At the very least an interesting read which references a lot of relevant research.

[Wooodsie]

Hi magnilink, I'm afraid its a bit of "if it ain't broke, dont fix it" on the statins. The research these days is more about the apparent side effects rather than the efficacy of the statin. Recent research suggests that the side effects (mainly muscle pains) are imaginary, rather than actual. (Please don't shoot the messenger people 😟😃)

[MikeBB in reply to Wooodsie]

I can categorically assure you that the muscle pain is most certainly NOT imaginary. Nor is the excruciating back pain that left me virtually immobile, and a surgeon was recommending fusing vertebrae.

My most recent experience is that I was often to be found literally screaming in agony, in the night, with leg cramps.

I’ve spent thousands on chiropractic and osteo treatment over the years.

Then, I finally decided enough was enough and no more statins. Eureka! I can live pain free, and actually enjoy life again. I have a cholesterol of 8 and I’m fully aware of what that means, especially after 1 heart attack and 2 stents. Im now 66 btw

And you know what? I’d rather have a couple more good years than the constant misery I’ve been through in the 20 years I’ve been on statins. Which, im afraid, I now put largely down to the statins my gp advised me to take. For good reasons , I get that.

Would I be around today if I’d not taken them? Who knows.

Do not take my case as ‘advice’. Make your own informed decisions based on a meaningful discussion with your gp. We are all different. My younger brother has 4 stents and cannot tolerate statins, physically or mentally. He and I both took informed decisions based on our personal circumstances and balancing risk and benefits

Best wishes.

[Hidden]

You could try the dietary option-Plant sterols, special spreads-although that’s made in a factory and personally I’d rather stick to a little natural fat if needed(butter or olive or rapeseed oil). Trying a fat free diet might help but at the end of the day the final decision is yours to make .

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

For information, and to add to what you have said, according to Heart UK a cholesterol reduction of about 7-12.5% can be achieved by taking plant stanols or sterols in the range 1g to 3g per day.

However in comparison and for those who are able to take statins without side effects (probably the vast majority) their effectiveness in reducing cholesterol appears to be far more significant, especially as the dose rises. Even the lowest doses achieve 20% , see here.

nice.org.uk/guidance/CG181/...

[MikeBB in reply to Hidden]

I gather approx 10% of us are statin intolerant.

[Hidden in reply to MikeBB]

This suggest 6-10%, typically 7%. Although it is not clear whether it is intolerance to one statin alone and less so with others allowing a change to another statin, or complete intolerance to all statins.

escardio.org/The-ESC/Press-...

The following is an extract...

There is strong and unambiguous evidence that statin treatment makes a significant difference in preventing cardiovascular disease and dying from it.

[nilmonisikdar40]

Hi Magnilink. That was interesting. In March of last year, I was recommended CT angiogram by a cardiologist with whom I had phone consultation and as they did not have the local facilities, I was asked to go to St Thomas Hospital, London for the procedure. The cardiac radiologist was unable to comment of the state of the coronary arteries as the view was obscured by calcium plaques, I was 84 at that time. In June of the same year, I saw another cardiologist as a private patient as I was showing signs of mild heart failure. The first thing he said it was a waste of time to get CT angiogram of anybody after the age 0f 80 years. However, it seems the previous cardiologist was " barking up the wrong tree" and the cardiologist no 2 was more concerned with the lack of synchronisation of the faulty pacemaker which was implanted on 22.2.2000 and treatment started along that line, and he was not particularly keen about continuing statins and anti-platelets which the cardiologist No 1 started. I know you are 61 years and probably you are right. Glad I have been able to contribute to the debate.