I've just signed up to this forum because i wanted to share the information that i've just discovered.
Do you struggle to know how much is left in your inhaler? Do you sometimes worry that you don't have enough when you go on holiday and therefore you get a new one to be on the safe side?....
I would encourage you to measure the weigh of the canister when you want to find out how much is left. Just a simple food scale with a 1 gram resolution will do; this is all i use.
Personally i only use the reliever inhaler which has a canister of about 2.5 inches(body length). The canister is a Ventolin Evohaler manufactured by Allen and Hanburys. So i can't say that the information below is true for every brand and every model/type. I can only say this is true for the inhaler i've specified.
Brand new and unused these weigh 30 grams. At 17 grams, the canister only produces weak dosages. By 15-16 grams your just sucking the HFA 134a out of it (the propellant). At 11 grams, the canister is completely empty of everything (Ie, this is the weight of the aluminium).
I thought i would share this bit of information because i've had asthma for a number of years and regardless of where in the country i've bought the inhaler, i've always received the same brand and model/type of inhaler.
I found the weights out by measuring them myself. I've measured 3 or 4 and the results have been consistent. At the end of the life of the canister i've always popped a hole in it to release the last bit of the HFA 134a and measured the weight of the aluminium canister.
I hope this helps until these inhalers start to come with counters.
Just to add to that I've an app that if u input the details of your Mdi, date started doses per day ec it calculates full good half low and empty and u get notifications a few days before empty works well for me seems prety accurate as well
Xx
Edit - also tell you how many days u have left
Popping a hole in the canister at the end of the life isn't dangerous at all, as 99% of the pressure has already been released. In industry, companies have to do this to any canister before any recycle company will touch it; just to show that it's safe to handle.
Thank you for this info, as got inhalers at home scattered about and don't know how much is in them, so task for tonight weigh them and discard the used up ones. I too use Seretide and that is easy with the counter, shame others haven't got it.
this very topic was discussed less than a month ago here tinyurl.com/6d4dw7j
Thought id comment randomly to bump this bk to top as sounds very usful! And i hadnt noticed it b4 with being a kind of new member on here x
Rubbish, my kitchen scales are cheap crappy ones and not sensitive enough to tell. I have no idea how low mine are as I haven't taken them regularly since I got them.
Tut tut philomela! Makes me chuckle that ventoline doesnt have a counter on it though! Surly as its an important one it should lol
Sorry
Apologies didn't know this would be useful info or I would have posted something sooner. As a former quality consultant for various pharma companies I've spent too many years testing various drugs in all sorts of dosage forms & ironically mainly treatments for respiratory conditions.
I did however give feedback, not meaning too on several occasions when proposed changes I thought would be unhelpful. Suppose I was taking my quality role a bit too seriously by taking the drugs myself! Or as one colleague said the ultimate quality control!
Seriously if anyone is interested or does need any future help please feel free to pm me.I can certainly use my insider knowledge.
Feeling so good today & wanted to share it. Been to nwlc ( like the Brompton but in Manchester) & after nearly 2 years off sick finally have a confirmed diagnosis of why my asthma has been so hard to get under control. More importantly I'm now on the right combination of meds & am allowed to start back to work in the New Year. I never thought this day would come but I feel like I've been given a new chance. I was told seeing the staff there would be my last chance & that my consultants didn't think I'd work again. I'm so happy & just wanted to say that anyone else just starting at any of the specialist centres give them time & miracles do happen!!! Only issue is getting the funds from PCT so I can stay like this. Also made my 'anniversary ',no unplanned trips or stays in costa for 12 months. Spent 8 weeks in during 2010 not to mention all the a&e visits.
Sorry for hi jacking this thread, wanted to share my news with others who understand. Now just got to find a job that I can do without upsetting my health & remember not to take things so quickly.
Rabbit, I'm so happy for you that you've finally got things under control and will be starting work again! It must be a great feeling especially when previous consultants had more or less given up on you.
As you have the expertise...do you know a way I could measure what's left in my inhalers? I don't know whether they're taking several puffs at a time to do anything because of my asthma or because they're running out and I'm mainly getting propellant. And of course this occurs to me at the weekend, and of course the first time I forgot to take my Singulair was last night (*hangs head in shame...*)
Your expertise would be appreciated, I would rather not have to make myself feel like an idiot and have to go to OOH just to get myself a new set of inhalers if I can wait till Monday. (Charlie, think counters make them much more expensive and that's why they don't have them).
lol expensive but we do pay for our medication so surly it shouldnt matter...i love the symbicort/oxis turbohalers...there fab with their little red thingy of, oops uve ran out...maybe it should go red when you only have a certain amount of dosages left...not when its completly empty! logic for it being there...poor logic for timing!
x
My consultant said that all MDI inhalers were designed such that if it was releasing a 'puff' than every puff was standard and contained the same amount of meds whether the inhaler was new or nearly empty - that doses didn't get weaker, become propellant, etc.
It would be nice to think this were true, but I'm not convinced. Philomela - if my Ventolin isn't giving the relief I would expect and sounds nearer the end that the beginning, I always try another one, as I always keep a spare in. Do you have a spare you could try? If you don't and you're not able to get control, then I'm afraid it's a trip to the OOH for you. When you next see your GP, make sure you get a spare Ventolin (or two).
Thanks Ratty. I'm honestly not sure whether it's me or the inhaler (as I am just beginning to get some control and still in the 'try this and see if it works' stage), hence the confusion and wondering if I could find out! I have two but both are old and both now in constant use (one is my 'home' one, the other 'handbag') and I have no idea with either of them. No spare because they've only just begun to work at all - should have asked GP last time for another one.
I will freely admit this is a stupid position to be in. It would be a lot better if I'd thought about this before yesterday evening, but it only occurred to me then that just possibly they might already be running out and that could be related to not getting relief without lots of puffs.
Little tip from my asthma nurse on how full/empty inhalers are, get a glass of water and drop the metal part, (the canister) into it, if it sinks it's full, floats it's empty anywhere in between means it's still has some left.
thanks Picalilly I will definatly be testing that little tip out!!
x
Thanks picalllly. Wasn't sure if you were meant to do that with more modern ones but if your asthma nurse says it's ok...
Bad news is, both of mine float!
Oooh, not sure you should be putting any CFC free inhalers (which is most of them) into water - I think that old tip (which I remember using as a child) shouldn't be used now. But I suppose at least you have your answer Philomela. Do you have a good relationship with your pharmasist - they may be able to issue you a spare to get through the weekend.
Hi Ratty,
My asthma nurse gave me this advice under a year ago (I've only been asthmatic and using inhalers for 2 years), she is terribly ""old"" school, could she really get this so wrong? Have i been drowning innocent inhalers?????? (feel sorry for them now!)
Well, as I was intrigued (and trying to find any excuse not to do uni work...) I did a little research. Everthing says don't use the float test but gives a variety of reasons, however most conclude it's just not accurate. There has even been a scientific report into this which concludes:
""Float characteristics are product-specific and a function of canister size, design, content, and method of testing. Clinicians and asthma educators should not advise patients to use a float test to assess the amount of medication remaining in an MDI. Recommendations from the National Asthma Education and Prevention Program of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute suggest that the only reliable method for determining the number of doses remaining in a canister is to subtract the number of doses used from the number available.""
So I guess we should just start counting... :S
Picalilly - it's like the witch test - if they float, they're guilty and get chucked, if they drown, we kill them off...
Oh Ratty,
You have made my day, i had visions i'd murdered so many inhalers by drowning, such an awful way to go………… thank goodness you have done the research and saved me from nightmares!
Love the witch comparison by the way, very clever. You do make me laugh. Thank you Ratty.
All inhalors have more than than stated number of doses. Usually between 10 and 20 more than stated. This is done by literally firing off a can till its empty and counting the number of puffs given. They also measure the fill weight of the cans by analysing the contents.
All puffs contain the same amount of active no matter how full they are. They are tested at various points through the can to calculate the amount of active eg shots 10 to 20, the 100 to 110, and then 190 to 200.
The generics are copies of the branded inhalors. They contain identical active ingredients but may differ in the other components.
Please do not put the cans in water! you can get water ingress via the valve which can't always be detected without lab tests.
I know it is really annoying not to have counters on most inhalors but if enough people write in and complain the manufacturers will have to take action. By law they have to produce a product review of all batches manufactured in a year and this includes a section on customer complaints and their outcome. The report is a legal requirement and will be looked at by the MHRA inspectors who licence all drugs in the UK when they audit a company.
Sorry I can't wave a magic wand but hope I can reassure eeryone that all inhalors do contain more than the stated number of doses, the amount of drug doesn't vary through the inhalor and that the active ingredient is the same no matter who makes it. Lastly if you do want to know more about your particular inhalor the company may be prepared to let you know the type of info like Ratty has been collecting if you explain why you need it.
I have been using inhalers for such a long time that I can tell just by the weight and shaking them if they have anything in them, though I do have numerous inhalers around anyway.
Will try weighing some......
Philomela, Ratty's advice to try a new Ventolin is very sensible and all the advice online does point towards not floating the new CFC-free canisters (damaging the valve seems to be reason).
Perhaps call OOH and see if they can issue a prescription to replace the canisters that you floated out of curiosity ... asking for a spacer (e.g. a small Aerochamber) might be helpful too.
Glad that you're getting on top of things at long last!
But if you do contact OOH with the 'curiosity' card, don't add anything about witch testing - they may think you've lost it completely and come for you in a 'special' van...
Rabbit - if each puff is the same (which is what my consultant also said), why do we have to wait a minute between puffs? :S
Oops, should have waited to read this- thanks for all the info everyone has posted though, good to know. They still seem to work and spray something out. I guess the having to take several puffs at a time to get relief is my lungs and not the inhalers, shame.
I think I will be ok for today, haven't needed too much and I used to get by without any! Will go to OOH tomorrow or ring them if I have to but otherwise managed to use the wonderful EMIS system to book an appt with good GP on Monday afternoon. I am also planning to ring the surgery on Monday morning just in case I can get the prescriptions without actually seeing the GP and if so will cancel appt, as it seems a shame to take one up just so I can confess to being an idiot and ask for some new inhalers!
Edit: lol Ratty, just saw your post, that made me laugh! Also have not been waiting long enough between puffs...I am rubbish at this whole asthma thing!
Unrelated to the original post, but just to mirror Ginnys comment for Philomela, get yourself a volumatic ideally, when I was struggling last week, I could only get my symptoms under control if I did four puffs with a spacer, four puffs with just the MDI didn't work, just proves the spacers do help get the medication into them lungs!!
Oops I forgot to say, I do have one! I don't use it when out and about but I use it at home and it is easier.
Unfortunately sometimes at night it still takes a lot to get thing calmed down right now. Still possible I am doing it wrong though!
Oops I forgot to say, I do have one! I don't use it when out and about but I use it at home and it is easier.
Unfortunately sometimes at night it still takes a lot to get thing calmed down right now. Still possible I am doing it wrong though!
So its confirmed by the experts, (thank you rabbit) I am officially a canister murdering witch, I shall never sleep soundly again!
Thank you Kate for your excellent, simple and practical approach, I'm on my way over armed with many canisters for you to expertly shake you pro as the only scales i have in the house are the ones that tell me i'm overweight!
Finally, apologies to Philomela who ""dunked"" innocently like me x
i don't have anything useful to add but just thought i'd say how much i've enjoyed reading the banter in this thread about witch-hunts and the drowning / murdering of innocent cannisters haha
I think Picalilly's asthma nurse is the one who has it in for witches, or rather canisters. Mine seem to be ok for now but they are clearly guilty of something, possibly the crime of leaving an icky taste sometimes and not always working immediately
Being reminded of that Monty Python sketch with the witch now...
Oh Philomela now i'm thinking your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberry's!!! (I loved that monty sketch)
Where is this post heading.........
o my ... i have just caught up on the post...
well I have established that I need to start to learn to count (can i borrow your fingers and toes) and not play with water when around my inhalers...hmph what about the swimming pool, I always leave it on the pool side ... uh oh could that be why my swimming pool one doesnt work that well lol...
x
Hi philomela
If you take your empty ventolin to a local pharmacy tomorrow (as evidence that it's been prescribed to you) they will give you one. Say you'll let them have the prescription once you've seen the gp on Monday & you won't have a problem. They won't think you're silly for running out; everyone does that at least once when starting out. You need the security of knowing you've got one in hand for sunday & esp overnight, cos otherwise it may make you anxious. Then ask your gp for a prescription for two inhalers, so you've always got one spare
polly x
in my old area we have things like frendoc and brisdoc which is an emergency doc thingy that do prescriptions and in my kneew area now the minor injuries place have a doc that can do emergency prescritions...i guess a tad similar to the out of hours gp service...just a little more likely to get an appoint and get some results with no hassle!!
xx
Cheers Polly, think I will do that, good to know especially as OOH is a pain to get to where I live. Wish we had a walk in centre or something. Then will get another one off GP on Monday, I like to have one at home and one in my bag.
Now I'm thinking about wafer thin mints...
I remember peaksteve posting on this subject quite a while back but can't find the thread using the search box. If I remember correctly then all that's needed for an emergency Ventolin prescription from a pharmacist is a NHS repeat prescription form (the white slip) and some sort of ID?
Edit to add link after giving up with the search box ...
If you run out of prescription medicines, you may be able to get an emergency supply without a prescription from a community pharmacist or supermarket pharmacy.
Find a local pharmacy, including its opening hours.
You'll be interviewed by the pharmacist to find out:
* if you're usually prescribed the medication
* if there's a clear and immediate medical need
* if there's no other way to get a prescription
The pharmacist will also make sure that the dose you ask for is considered suitable.
A charge will be made for the medicines and the service. This may vary between pharmacies.
Walk-in centres and GPs
If a pharmacy can’t help, you may be able to get a prescription from a GP out-of-hours service. This is the service that your GP runs outside of their usual opening hours, and on public holidays.
This will depend on the type of medicine, and how essential it is.
If you're away from home, you may be able to have a consultation with a local GP and get a prescription for a limited supply of medicines.
If you’re given a prescription, you'll still need to find a pharmacy that's open.
You can also go to an NHS walk-in centre. They may be able to organise a GP consultation. In some cases, they can give you medicine after you’ve seen a nurse.
Some walk-in centres are open from early morning to late evening, seven days a week, 365 days a year.
You can find out about your GP out-of-hours service, and find walk-in centres close to you, by using our Service search.
Thanks for the info Ginny! I hope I don't need a repeat slip, I don't have inhalers on repeat yet because I've only just been officially diagnosed.
I'll see how it goes tomorrow, but suspect I will be at GP on Monday unless I can persuade surgery that there is no point me taking up an appt just for that...I have had them leave a prescription at reception for me before when it was just a case of trying a new inhaler.
Philomela, explaining that you're newly diagnosed and that you think the inhaler has run out would probably be okay. I suppose another way to prove that Ventolin has been prescribed to you before is to take along an old inhaler box with the pharmacy label stuck on it. It's quite stressful to have this going on over the weekend, so ask your GP for a prescription for a new one and a spare.
Update
Blimey just caught up with this thread. I don't claim to be an expert just more hours than I care to remember testing inhalers. Reason you have to wait between puffs is for the product to refill the valve. When you press down the correct dose is then released. More important is to shake the device as the active is a suspension which can separate. Other reasons not to put them in water is they are pressurised & could potentially explode as temperature affects them. It's quiet impressive when it does happen! Made a hole in the lab ceiling when trying to get the can contents out in my early days in the lab!! Moisture can cause corrosion to an inhaler which can cause it to block & can cause the contents to block the hole in the valve where the product comes out from. You should also regularly check the plastic boot the can goes into to ensure the hole there isn't blocked.
More seriously had always thought that you could get supplies of emergency meds from your local pharmacy provided you had been there previously, had proof that you were normally on that med with the dose & had tried all other ways to obtain your meds. Will be trying this out later as my surgery has messed up my repeat prescription yet again & have insufficient hydrocortisone tablets to last till tomorrow.
Hope everyone has a good day & please no more inhalor drowning they have feelings too!! Oh dear think working with all the chemicals has affected my brain!!
Just to say I've had meds that haven't been on a repeat prescription but I've requested more as I would a repeat and have picked it up from the surgery as usual
Thanks BooBoo, is worth a try then.
Did it! Rang surgery, after a bit of confusion about whether I had been prescribed them by that surgery before they agreed to send two inhaler prescriptions to Boots.
All in all not that hard, though I won't claim victory until they're in my hand. And I promise I will be nicer to these ones and won't test their innocence
Sorry if i posted something that was posted not that long before i did. I wondered if i was wasting inhalers thinking they were empty when in fact they still had some juice in them. I tried googling it and i couldn't find any method to accurately be able to tell. So over a year i had collected a few inhalers and thought about measuring them to destruction to find out. Since i had only googled methods to measure them and came up with them only a week or 2 before i did it, i assumed that nobody had posted the interesting information on any website or forum so i found this and decided to share my new found knowledge.
I would have to disagree with the equal levels of active ingredients are across the life of the inhaler as well. I know from experience that when the inhaler is ready to die the dosage is smaller as it takes me more puffs to sort my self out. As it usually one takes 1-(max) 2 puffs to do this normally and at least 3 or 4 before i've decided the inhaler is dead.
You should have a brand new inhaler tucked away ready for those times when you're caught out. Once i left a brand new inhaler (the spare) at the recent ex- girlfriends (at the time). And my normal day to day one that i was using ran out and i my asthma got triggered on a saturday night. The cow was out but quite close to home and wouldn't pop home to give me the inhaler. So i went to a+e in the end because i didn't want the deal with it until it went away by itself or until monday. The buggers kept me in unnecessarily over night but i least i got sorted out and a free inhaler.
I was wondering about the dosage at the end too. I was finding it very difficult to get things under control yesterday and for several days before, was on multiple puffs and today a couple of puffs seem to be enough. Don't think anything else has changed...
Ok, I lied. Well, didn't lie, but was mistaken. It seems having a full as opposed to a nearly empty inhaler hasn't made a difference, I was puffing away this morning! So guess the doses are the same, it's just my lungs grrr. Yesterday must just have been a relatively good day.
Philomela, glad you got the inhalers sorted but sorry you're still struggling. Have you tried jelly babies? They're working well for me at the moment!!
Now is it just me or was anyone else tempted to give their inhalers a 'warm bath' to test the temperature change/explotion thing after Rabbit's post?
Oh my goodness Ratty your so very naughty, but have to confess the thought did cross my mind!
P.S Noooooooo Philomela dont try this, Iv'e lead you astray once already!!!!!
hehe, so tempting! Explosions! But don't worry picalilly, I won't blow up my inhalers as I'm relying on them right now.
Don't like jelly babies much, I wonder if chocolate would do the trick? (How amazing would it be if chocolate cured asthma? 'Oh no, I get this on the NHS, it's medicinal, I have to eat it every day.')
Bit worried now about telling you how to test inhalors! Sorry to disappoint you but it's unlikely you could get them to explode at home. Required extreme cold & then making a hole in the can. One of the reasons why you should pierce or burn pressurised containers.
Please be nice to inhalers I would hate to think I've started all this abuse of them!!
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... asking for a spacer (e.g. a small Aerochamber) might be helpful too. 
Thank you - to all you weird and wonderful people in this community! 
How long for Clenil to work?
5 Year old with asthma
Amazing same day GP service!
I do not know what to do.
