Reposting this because it seems to have been erased/disappeared;
I'm a 55 year old male. I live in the basement of a friend of mine, whom I also do seasonal part-time work for from home. I'm a recovering alcoholic (4 years) and cocaine addict (13 years). In the entire time I was using, I was inpatient psychiatric once, and that was for ECT. Since getting clean a sober, I've been hospitalized 14 times in 13 years. I have now been classified 'treatment-resistant' as there are no more medications or modalities to try. I'm in a current severe depressive episode that has been going on 2 years. Problem is I have no life. I have no friends. I spent 10 years in AA working the steps and sponsoring other men, but decided to leave because, on account of my lingering depression, people were accusing me of 'not working the program', 'never worked the steps', or lacked a spiritual connection with God. I've been in therapy for the last 10 years with little success. I have no life, because I have no friends. I've tried NAMI meetings with little success. Before all this happened, I was one of the most upbeat, energetic, passionate, hardworking, friendly people you'd ever want to meet. I had nine years with my second wife which was the happiest period of my life. My 2 daughters lived with us, we made excellent money, had tons of friends, and was basically blessed. Then, with little warning, she left. I was devastated and inconsolable for 2 years. Since getting clean and sober, I have tried to rebuild a life (I lost everything to my disease. I've been on SSDI now for 11 years and am barely making it financially, but it's the emptiness and loneliness and lack of socialization which is killing me. I want to have friends to hang with and hopefully another romantic partner. How do you start making friends at 55 when you have depression which is sometimes disabling. Where do you go and what do you do to find people to be friends with. Online support helps, but without social interaction or a sense of purpose, my depression wants me dead. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. I was so blessed the first 37 years of my life, but the last 20 have been a nightmare. I can't take the isolation anymore. My roommate is also my employer and he's very busy and I can't talk to him about this because he then worries about my ability to do my job, and the job and place to live are a package deal. I'm too sick to work outside the house right now and I don't get enough SSDI to afford a place to live. I've never had to make an effort to cultivate a social support network; it always just happened. So I'm lost as to what to do. I need human connection and friends to do things with. I have a mom that I see 2 times a week, but that isn't enough. I have 2 adult daughters who love me but are so busy with their own lives that I only seed them 5-6 times a year. And I'm not happy with God. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Dave_H
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When something’s treatment resistant and nothing else works Jesus is the answer people like to accuse instead of support. U are so loved by God and I bet u if u dropped down to ur knees and screamed ur pain to the sky he’d answer. Jesus came thru to me on a dark night while I was in an abusive relationship. He came to my rescue and I’ve loved him ever since. Faith ain’t perfect its a ride and takes conscious effort but I promise u he’ll come thru for u. I’m praying for u have a great night.
Thank you for your input but I have prayed to the Lord hundreds of times over the last 13 years and I have only gotten worse. To quote a bible verse;
James 4:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask [a]with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."
What I have been asking for is healing, and restoration, not only to be relieved of my suffering, but so that I can be a whole individual, capable of providing for myself, and to be of use and value (of support) as a son, a brother, a father, and a friend. None of which is possible now.
And this is the basis of my feelings of being forsaken, and why I need more people in my life to talk to and get support from.
Everything that u ask for should be for the glory of God. He searches the heart and mind. U ask of these things but are u asking to be of use to the kingdom of God and becoming apart of the body of Christ . Are u asking for wisdom on who God is as an entity more powerful than thee. What I’m getting from that verse is God is asking u to go deeper ur asking for things that won’t aid u in the spiritual realm and relationship with him. He wants a personal relationship not on the basis of things of this world. We sit in suffering because he’s waiting for u to come on a level you couldn’t even image you’d come upon. U aren’t forsaken hun he’s waiting for ur curiosity to peak on who he can really be to u. Job in the Bible had everything taken from him like how the happiness of those 37 years were taken. Press on in prayer ask for ur heart to be changed FIRST and he’ll heal the depression right along with it. Remember our God is JEALOUS.
I have done that, both through prayer and a result of working the steps of AA. And if you read my post, there's nowhere in it that I am asking for 'things'. Here a link to an article you may wish to consider, about church, god, and the depressed Christian.
I agree with Survivingtheworld__. Going to the Lord in prayer is so powerful. You said you have been praying for 13 years and you have gotten worse. God has his own timing, a perfect timing. Trust Him, give your life to Him, the Lord will not let you down.
Proverbs 13:12 "Hope deferred makes the heart sick".
Proverbs 18:14 "The spirit of a man can endure his sickness,
But as for a broken spirit who can bear it?"
And my spirit is broken. How can I trust a God who would allow me to be so sick as to make an attempt to take my own life? That's not perfect timing where I come from.
I would invite you to take a look at this article;
I know trusting God can be hard, especially in the position you are in. Think about Jesus for a second. He went through so much pain and suffering. But in the end, because of Jesus' sacrifice, so many people today are able to be saved. That's amazing! Keep praying to the Lord. Love Him with all of your heart, soul and mind and I PROMISE He will come through.
Romans 8:28
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good."
I'm not sure where you live or how popular they are near you. But meet-up groups are a great way to meet new people. Of course, not now, with the virus, but when things start opening again, maybe that could be an answer for you. Just go to Meetup.com, put in your zip.code, and see what's close to you that you have an interest in. It is not a dating site. Just a way to find men and women who have similar interests.
I'm so sorry. You have been through so much. A lot if it I understand first hand, some of it I can only empathize with. I think the need for human connection is something we all wish for though. It's especially hard when you are depressed because you need it more than ever but sometimes don't have the energy or motivation or ability to find it.
You are not alone! The fact that you are on here shows that you have fight in you. Keep trying to reach out. Keep trying to get better. Just as suddenly as this came on, it can get better.
It's especially lonely right now because we are so secluded. I miss just smiling at people at the store. Saying hi to someone at work. I'm not super social, but those interactions were good for me. So it's hard right now. But at least we have the internet.
So... What type of work do you do part-time from home? I teach... A challenge right now, but I'm lucky that I too can work from home now.
Anyhow, do some excercise today. It helps me. And listen to upbeat music!
FYI I am an estimator for a hail damage restoration company. I only word par-time (which is all I can handle) and do it from home, which has it's pluses and minuses. I work when I can. The minus is it's isolating, but I'm not healthy enough to go out and get a part time job. I do get SSDI, but between the 2 I barely make it. I have to find a way to get better, but the deck seems to be stacked against me. But I'm still fighting with the little strength I have left. Thank you for your reply.
I know how you feel. I'm a 67 yr. old male with no family or friends who suffers from major depression and anxiety, but I started going to a support group and it helps some. See if you can find something like that in your area.
Thanks for your reply. I have been to several NAMI sponsored meeting but they didn't do much for me. I'm still looking, though. I live in Minneapolis/St. Paul (over 3,000,000 people). Every week there are over 500 separate meetings of AA. There are only a handful of mental illness support groups. I still find that hard to believe. Maybe someday someone like Bill Wilson will come along and do for mental illness what he did for alcoholics and addicts; create a whole society devoted to helping people in need. I hope that happens someday.
Hi, I feel your pain. I am a 45 year old woman and I also have treatment resistant depression and I’m also going through a bad episode right now and there’s days I can barely move.
I’m in recovery too and have been told by people in the program that I needed a kick in the ass and that I didn’t have depression, it was my alcoholism.
I found people in AA who have depression and they understand and although I don’t go out much, I stay in contact with them. There are a lot of good people in AA and honestly, I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t care what people think. I know I have a mental illness and I’m not going to let anyone put my sobriety in jeopardy.
There are also groups of people with similar interests that meet up. People who like hiking and all different kinds of stuff, maybe you could try that?
Thanks for your kind reply. I put my heart and soul into my recovery, and into AA. I was all in in AA. I've been to over 1200 meetings, was trusted servant for 1 1/2 years. During the time I was active in sponsorship, I met with probably 25 men, and they all came to me; I never went after anyone to be a sponsor. Of the 25, 5 of them made it all the way through the first 164 pages of the big book and all the way through the steps. All 5 now have over 10 years of sobriety. I was widely praised for my participation in my home group. I even taught 4th step inventory at a nationally renowned treatment center here in Minneapolis for a year and a half. I created a service opportunity for my home group 8 years ago which they still do. The Big Book says 'you cannot transmit something you haven't got'. I still stay in contact with several of the men I sponsored. They tell me they would do anything for me. But the reality is as I have described it. I have found that the majority of people in AA are more insensitive towards people with mental illness than the average person, because they see depression as a spiritual failure. Several other posters have basically come right out and said it. I replied to them with a link to an informative article which I hope they read because my experience with churches goes in line with the accusers in AA. Clinical depression is not a choice, and few people get that. This society by and large are completely uninformed or misinformed about depression, which of course leads to isolation. I'm still considering going back to AA. I've been to 7 meetings since November, but I don't feel the connection anymore. There are several members of my home group who were delighted to see me back, but when I told them how I was doing, I was met either with silence or 'sorry to hear that'. No consolation, no offer to talk to them if I needed to. As I said, even Bill Wilson himself experienced this kind of rejection. I can't go to an AA meeting and put a smile on my face and pretend that everything is OK. I was in AA for 10 years, did everything I was told to do, and continued to do steps 10-12 (I still do). And the promises never came true. In my experience, talking about my depression with people in AA, especially the ones closest to me is like sticking my hand in a sausage grinder; I'm going to lose some fingers. I've gone to a couple of NAMI sponsored meetings, but haven't found it to be very helpful. I will say that one night I brought up my AA experience, and after the meeting, 2 different people came up to me and told me they had had the exact same experience and no longer go to meetings. The craziest part of all of this is that an estimated 35% of people who have an alcohol or drug problem have an underlying, untreated mental illness. They are in essence self-medicating. AA needs to recognize this fact and do some education of its members, like from the top. Just my 2 cents.
AA is a booze cure and nothing else. Bill Wilson wrote this in one of his pamphlets when he was talking about his own depression. It's not the answer to that issue.
But for me to address my anxiety and depression, I MUST treat my alcoholism. They are two separate mental, physical and emotional problems. I can tell the difference between a self centered fear based on a character defect and a free floating minor anxiety attack that comes out of nowhere. My sponsor is savvy enough to help me deal with both.
I can also recognize being sad because of a genuine self centered loss or a rejection and an overwhelming despair which happens when the chemicals in my brain explode.
I can't expect my mental health friends to understand my alcoholism any more than I can expect my alcoholic friends to understand depression and anxiety.
I do agree that there could be less arrogance in AA regarding the dually diagnosed, but nobody ever said humility was our best quality.
Based on my experience, I'd suggest you continue your AA involvement. Use a sponsor. Be active in a home group. Work the steps to the best of your ability. Don't drink. Go to meetings.
And work on your mental health issues with professionals appropriate to that task. Keep posting and let us know how you're doing.
Thanks for the well informed reply. If I'm honest about myself, I would say I have a resentment towards AA because none of the 9th step promises have come true. There is also in the Big Book this promise on page 133 "Now about health: A body badly burned by alcohol
does not often recover overnight nor do twisted think¬
ing and depression vanish in a twinkling. We are con¬
vinced that a spiritual mode of living is a most power¬
ful health restorative. We, who have recovered
from serious drinking, are miracles of mental health. But
we have seen remarkable transformations in our
bodies. Hardly one of our crowd now shows any mark
of dissipation."
Another broken promise. I suppose I could do a 4th step around this, but in the end, were I to go back to AA, it wouldn't be with the faith and belief I once had in the program. If I go to a meeting, and someone asks how I am doing (and people do), what am I supposed to say? The whole program rests on the principle of 'rigorous honesty'. If I share how I'm really doing, I get the treatment I outlined in my original post. If I say I'm doing OK, I'm not telling the truth. My last couple of years in AA were really hard because I could see people getting better and getting back to having a decent life, and I'm left behind with 'treatment resistant' depression. I'm probably going to try to attend some meetings at my home group (the same one for 10 years), but I don't feel as though I'm going to feel 'apart of' the way I used to. The whole thing is _absurd_ because the first chapter of the book, which describes the two-fold nature of the disease, is based on the work of Dr. Silkworth, who was a PSYCHITRIST. Then there is this, also from page 133. "But this does not mean that we disregard human health measures. God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists, and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons. Most of them give freely of themselves, that their fellows may enjoy sound minds and bodies. Try to remember that though God has wrought miracles among us, we should never belittle a good doctor or _psychiatrist_. Their services are often indispensible in treating a newcomer and following his case afterward." In my humble opinion, there are far too many people in AA that have never really studied the Big Book, and so are apt to draw their own conclusions about things like depression. It hurts inside when I think about all I have done in AA and still get shunned. And I don't think I could ever sponsor again because I can't look another man in the eye and tell him what wonderous things the program has done for me except for helping me stay sober, and the program is about much more than that. And that makes me sad, because I really did enjoy being 'of service'. And now I don't think I have the heart for it anymore.
Hi Dave, I'm horrified to hear how AA views mental health. They're supposed to be an organization specializing in alcoholism recovery but are totally BLIND to the obvious and very well-know link between mental health issues and alcoholism. That is shameful. I've heard negative reviews of AA over the years, that it just doesn't help. I have been to ACOA meetings a few times, but it was just plain strange!! We sat around a table and sat in awkward silence after the host asked someone to volunteer to share something. When someone shared something, you were not allowed to comment or give any feedback at all about what each person said because that is "cross talk" and that is forbidden. What the hell is the use of getting together with people if they cannot acknowledge or comment or share their thoughts on what you said? SO WEIRD. The people were pretty cool, for the most part anyway, but the total awkwardness of that totally stupid and nonsensical "no crosstalk" rule ruined any kind of meaningful conversation. That is messed up that you literally got no support in AA when you reached out to them for support with depression. It's really like a cult! The people in it are told what their supposed to think and feel it sounds like. They are told that depression is just made up and not real, and they all just parrot that and don't even think for themselves. Just WOW. Then again, most people just have NO IDEA what to do or say if you tell them you are depressed. They get all weird and they have no clue how to respond, especially people in AA. And how SAD that these people are told that their mental health issues are just a fantasy or just an "excuse" to drink! So messed up!
I want to say how impressive it was what you did in AA and how many people you helped in a VERY profound way! The lives you touched for the better is amazing! You helped to change the lives of many people there and they came to you, so you obviously have a gift as a therapist/counselor/healer. You're also very obviously highly intelligent and an excellent writer. Your writing style is interesting, flows beautifully and is just intelligently written. You obviously have a lot of gifts to give.
I totally understand the force of depression because I have been profoundly experiencing at well the past few most recent years. I'm in my 40s now, I never had kids and currently single and the feeling of hopelessness of my situation and profound feeling of failure as a person has been strangulating....especially now in this lockdown where I feel SO intensely alone. I also have worked so hard all my life trying to bend over backwards to please bosses, but feel it got me absolutely nowhere, not even financially! I want to meet someone, but I keep feeling gripped with the thoughts of that I'm too old, not thin enough, not successful enough in life in general.....and I feel this hopelessness. And when I go out, I see all these happy families that look so happy and perfect and it just keeps heaping more and more salt into the wound.
I wasted so many years in a horrible job where I was emotionally abused and bullied. I feel I have so much love and support to give and I love to help other people. But I just feel so lost and directionless! I feel like I'm not accepted and judged for not being married with children like everyone else in the world. That destroys my self-esteem because of that feeling of being looked down on.
I also want to add that if you're on SSDI, you may be eligible for free therapy. Have you by any chance looked into that? Finding a good therapist could be immensely helpful and can help to reframe your perspective on the past relationship with your ex and see everything in a different light. I also agree about trying out meetup.com to meet people and do things you're interested in, like walking or hiking groups, etc. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for what you went through and I think the way out and into the light is just to take SMALL steps, every day. Small little steps that will surprisingly build quickly to transition into a life you want -- meeting new friends to do things with, perhaps new money opportunities through meeting more people and letting them know what work you do. All the best to you!
I'm sorry to hear about your encounter with ACOA. I hate to suggest this, but if you really feel you could get help there, you should try to go to at least 2 other meetings. I imagine that makes you want to gag and makes it sound like I didn't hear you, but I've been around recovery a long time, and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and keep trying for a while, someplace else. That's the advice to any alcoholic who told me they went to a couple of meetings and didn't like it and so threw AA out the window. I can't imagine what it was like for you growing up, and the twists and turns and everything else. Except I have to imagine because that was me, I did that to my daughters/family, and it's taken work to regain they're trust. If either/both of your parents are still in their disease, I pray that something would happen in their life to get them to seriously consider getting sober; it's the best gift they could ever give you. If they have passed, I'm sorry for your loss, but I must say that I have been taught the hard way that carrying around resentments and hurts is no way to live. And yet it's so easy and seems so natural and logical. But it is the way to great unhappiness (not saying it's the cause of your depression).
As to your single status, all I can say is I can relate somewhat. I have been married twice and have 2 adult daughters. 40 is the new 30, remember. I'm actually out in the dating scene (what for, I don't know. Who would have me?). I'm out their because I have been alone for 13 years and can't stand it anymore. I'm wired to be in a relationship; I just go downhill without companionship. So I feel for you. You sound like a wonderful person with a lot to give. You have value. You are important. You are desireable. I'm 55 and would kill to date someone in their 40s. You can still find the right one and have a family. I hate to be cliche but try to stop comparing your insides to others outsides.
As to your suggestion about activities, I am too exhausted many days to leave the house. I'm suffering from both depression and sleep depravation and it's killing me. I simply can't get the doctors to throw the book away and try some imaginative treatment. If the book had the answers, I'd have been cured 13 years ago!
Thank you for you're kind and detailed reply. Best Wishes.
It would be interesting to know why your wife just left . These things usually build up over time until one of the couple can't take it any longer. If it was a surprise to you, you must not have been paying attention. in all of your relationships try asking what you can bring to it instead of what you want from it. Include your employer and God in this . Work on developing your relationships with your Mother and your Daughters also. Your Mother may be very lonely . Give.
I sensed the distance growing between me and my wife long before she left; I was paying attention. At first I just started to ask how she was feeling about us; she denied any problem. Later, I convinced her for us to go to couples counseling. In our second session, the therapist confronted my wife about a number of things (he had already done so with me). He told her he didn't know if I was the right man for her anymore, but that she had 2 choices. She could go around, or through. Around meant just going through with her plans to leave and learning nothing. Through meant commiting to try to work things out with his guidance. She chose to go around, because in her mind she was never wrong about anything. Her stated reason was 'I'm just moving on'. No explanation. She's been in a revolving door of relationships ever since. We were together 9 years. I put everything I had into that relationship. The entire time we were together I never once thought of being with someone else. I always try to give my all in everything I do. FYI, I visit my mother twice a week. It's difficult because she's become a very negative person and hard for me to be around, but I do it out of love anyway. My daughters are very busy with their own lives and we only see each other about 5-6 times a year but I always try to give them my unconditional love. You say always try to bring more than you expect to receive. Do you understand that being severely depressed over a long period of time robs you of yourself? That you can actually get to a point where you are no longer really human? If you think that statement is ridiculous, I can tell you that both my previous therapist and my current one acknowlege this, that I'm in purely survival mode. I don't _live_. I exist, empty, beaten, exhuasted, and in tremendous emotional pain. I don't _have_ anything to give right now. I need a healing. I need company. I need help for my insomnia which is pushing me right to the edge. I need connection. As to your comment about God I have been petitioning in prayer for his will to be done in my life. And my reward has been to just get sicker, to the point of wanting to end it all. I cry out to him and get no relief. Just more burned out. Just more rejection.
I am sorry Dave. I'm afraid I was projecting some of my own issues on to you. I sure recognize the pain, loneliness, and depression. It is horrible to live like this . I don't want to be judgmental and only wanted to share that when I made some changes in my behavior then the whole dynamic changes. this isn't the first time I've been wrong about someone . For me the loneliness is the worst thing to deal with. Coming on HU has helped me so much and I hope it will do the same for you. pam
I know this is going to sound like sappy macho talk, but 'No blood, no foul" In other words, no harm done, and thank you for your reply. It's just really hard because outside of my mom and my daughters, I don't have anyone in my life I can talk to - do things with, and I feel that sharing with them how poorly I'm doing puts a burden on their heart. I lost all my friends during the 3 years I was 'out there' in my alcoholism and addiction, and haven't found any way to make new friends. I used to have so many, including my best friend since 8th grade. I don't do well without companionship. I need people in my life who accept me as I am, even though I don't have a lot to offer right now, which makes it especially hard. And I don't know if that's even possible, let alone how to do it.
I’m so sorry - I feel your pain and wish I could wave it away. I’m not sure how to help other than to say I’m here to listen... am in tough place as well going through multiple meds following ECT and I do find this group helpful - reading/writing. Praying for you Dave
People are not very supportive of those of us with mental illness. There aren't too many people that understand it. So, you get blank stares and awkward moments of silence.
You have two separate issues going on. So each requires its own expertise handling.
I related to you mentioning.. empty shell of a person. I had very similar problems. I used the word robotic to describe my life. I went " about" life. I had no emotions for myself. I gave to others and felt good about that. You gave and felt good as a sponsor.
Time ticked by for me in robotic mode then one day I just had an emotional collapse. I couldn't play " the game" anymore.
Have you tried therapy for depression? Have you been involved with dual diagnosis groups or anything like that?
Yes, I've been in therapy for the better part of the last 8 years. I had a really good therapist once, but I had to let her go because she violated our confidentiality agreement, which was very hard. I've had several therapists since then. The last therapist I had, when I met him the first time, I told him my history and basically told him I felt that I was alive against my own will. At the end of that first session, he put his hand on my shoulder and said 'I'm not too worried about you". A year later we had a meeting in which he said he was unwilling to be my therapist (he was acutually a dr. of psychology) anymore because working with me was too depressing for _him_. I have been exposed to CBT and ACT, neither of which helped much. I've been with my current therapist for 2 months now and even though we're meeting (video) twice a week, it's not helping much except for having someone to talk to. As far as dual-diagnosis groups I've always separated my problems with depression to psychiatrists and therapists and my alcoholism and addiction to AA. I have checked the Minneapolis area and haven't been able to find any dual-diagnosis groups. I have been able to sustain my sobriety despite leaving AA; just because I left doesn't mean I've stopped working the program. I've tried going to a couple of meetings at my home group recently, but I don't feel apart of the way I used to, even though there are long term members of the group who noticed my abscense and welcomed me back. As I explained in my original post, the rejection I was getting was very hurtful and I really don't trust AA right now. Smart Recovery has been suggested as an alternative, but one I haven't checked out recently. I guess I'm still feeling the pain of what happened to me in AA and am reluctant to put myself out there, although I recently reached out to a church I'm familiar with and was put in contact with a pastor there. I sent him a long email about my condition and he called me back and was very nice and supportive. They have a Celebrate Recovery group there that I might check out. Thanks for your comments and your interest.
Getting in touch with the pastor sounds like it might bring you some hope? How do you feel about that? I know group work will be difficult right now with all the lockdowns in place. But, this sounds like something you may benefit from.
I follow a different spiritual path. I've found a lot of peace in meditation. Over time it's helped me see more positive things about myself.
I do a lot of therapy also. It's taken time for things to " sink" in. I'm just going to continue to plug away at it. My goal is peace within.
I hope things work out with the pastor and the potential joining of the group. Sounds like a good way to meet people.
There's a line from AA that I'm probably going to screw up here. It's got something to do with what people think of you. I'm sure you will know what I mean. Is it I don't need to know what they think of me??
I'm guilty of thinking people judge me. I'm trying to learn to let it roll off my shoulders. So when in a situation where you feel people are passing judgement on your depression, remember when the conversation ends we are left standing thinking they think there's something wrong with me. They walk off and are thinking about themselves. We are our own worst critic in social situations. I'm speaking from my own experience
Anyway, I wish you peace. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
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In other words, no harm done, and thank you for your reply. It's just really hard because outside of my mom and my daughters, I don't have anyone in my life I can talk to - do things with, and I feel that sharing with them how poorly I'm doing puts a burden on their heart. I lost all my friends during the 3 years I was 'out there' in my alcoholism and addiction, and haven't found any way to make new friends. I used to have so many, including my best friend since 8th grade. I don't do well without companionship. I need people in my life who accept me as I am, even though I don't have a lot to offer right now, which makes it especially hard. And I don't know if that's even possible, let alone how to do it.
Slipping into a deep rut again
Does Sad or Deep Music?
Deep down
Depression anxiety and despair
