Yesterday, I felt like my old self and despite the heat worked in my garden for most of the day. Could have done more and my energy was almost limitless.
Why was that you may ask?
Well I forgot to take my beta blocker 25mg of Metoprolol that morning. My goodness who would have thought that medication could dampen energy levels so much!
Last week I filled in the obligatory form online to see someone about changing my beta blocker to one that didn't drain my energy so much, there are quite a few I've never tried. I had a response that all appointments relating to medication advice were fully booked and they would come back to me. Well they did yesterday to say I have a face to face appointment for 4th June! To be honest I find it totally insulting to have to wait that long.
When I had a splinter of glass embedded in my finger a few weeks ago and it turned septic I showed it one morning to my pharmacist, who said I needed to see a doctor. That afternoon around 2.30pm I sent off an electronic request to see someone. Back came an appointment for that same afternoon and a male nurse/practitioner who had once worked in A&E knew exactly how to get it out with a magnifying glass that lit up and a needle which he just flicked the glass out with . I felt silly going for there for a sore finger and apologised but he was absolutely charming. In fact I wrote to the surgery singing his praises and to say how kind and re-assuring he'd been.
However, my pills making me feel drained is not of any concern, so I must wait. A while back I took Bisoprolol and felt wonderful but unfortunately they gave me awful pain in the lower part of my legs.
Am I being unreasonable to have hoped for an earlier appointment?
Whinge over.
Jean
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jeanjeannie50
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I share your joy when finding enough energy to do something in the garden. I'm too on Metoprolol 25mg morning and evening , but with me I can't see a connection with energy levels and whether I've missed a dose or not. The cardiologist says I'm in afib all the time. I just can't identify why I sometimes feel not just tired but weak and other times have more physical and mental energy. I guess I have to get used to riding the waves.
Do you have any tips for those days when doing something in the garden is out of the question?
No I'm afraid I have no tips at all for the days when we feel deprived of energy because of pills we're taking. I've decided and no way am I recommending anyone to do this, is to just take my evening dose of 25mg.
It's good that you have stayed well since stopping your calcium channel blocker. It's far better to be drug free if it's possible.
My pulse rate flits between 60-90bpm as I'm in constant AF. I will have to monitor it more as this is only my 3rd day missing my morning dose of Metoprolol. My blood pressure varies too, highest maybe 140 over 80.
A few years ago I stopped taking beta blockers around April and went through the summer to September/October without an AF attack (had PAF then). Did the same thing the following year and again went through to autumn AF free, but the next year oh dear my heart wouldn't behave at all when I stopped the beta blocker. so I had to go back to taking it.
Thank you for your comment. It’s reassuring that you believe we’re better off drug free. I have PAF and seem to get symptoms (not often) at night. Short of breath and ill at ease.I use my monitor at these times and sure enough it shows AF and usually my b/p has gone high but my pulse is around 50. Though sometimes it’s the other way round. Your figures sound good to me, but as you say keep an eye on it and see what the effect is of stopping one pill. Do you take your anticoagulant happily? I wish you well.
Yes, I take my anticoagulants, no way would I ever stop them. Having worked in a nursing home I've seen the effects a stroke can cause. Some people can't walk, talk, move or even eat (have to be fed through a tube in their stomach). It's like a living death. I still take my night time beta blocker too.
Once when having a PAF attack I had to struggle to keep conscious, felt hot and sweaty too. Managed to dial 999, my wrist pulse appeared to be normal in the 60's. Paramedics came quite quickly by then I was feeling a little better. They took my wrist pulse and it appeared fine. Strapped ECG machine on and my heart rate was 160bpm. This caused a lot of talk between them as they had never seen this before where the wrist pulse didn't match what my heart was actually doing. I went into hospital and the cardiologist I saw said he had seen that discrepancy before.
From then on I've never trusted the rate in my wrist and bought myself a stethoscope. I also take my pulse via my neck.
Thank you for your reply. We are in a very different place health wise and you have far more experience of AF than I. Do you know if taking an anticoagulant (mine is Edoxaban one a day) can cause an internal bleed without one actually knocking oneself at all?
Have tried to get this answered on line to no avail. Or perhaps I’ve not understood. They go on a lot about bleeds and use the word “spontaneous” and this concerns me.
Thank you for sharing your experience of seeing the effects of stroke. I do take it seriously.
Lots of people on this forum take many different types of anticoagulants and we rarely hear any feedback about members having bleeds of any type. Why don't you put your question re bleeds as a post on this forum.
I have learnt to give in fairly gracefully and put my feet up on days like that. If I carry on regardless it may become 2 days! Of course sometimes you have to keep going , but rest as soon as you can. For me 20 mins can be enough to recharge my batteries
Seems to come with the territory.. im told im in permanent af. Leave the excerdise alone and it eases off so there are levels. For weeks ive had terrible papitatipns allnight and difficullty walking pleasantly and feeling absolutely atuffedwith headaches ,then all of a sudden i woke last sunday morning and feeling almost like a human again. Still not right but better.. For me it seems excersise is a key trigger. Hard to accrpt after a life of keen sporting activity. Keep doing things but find you level. Unfortunately there isnt any silver bullet for this thing.
Ummm don’t let’s start that debate! If it is non urgent (and arguably a meds review is likely to be non urgent) I often have to wait. If it is urgent I am always seen. The glass splinter is a good example. Such a wound can lead to sepsis and most clinicians would act swiftly.
When I compare my friends in the US and myself, I wouldn’t swap systems. Unless I was rich - but then the rich can pick what they like wherever they are. I’m glad I live in the uk but of course wish our dreadful government had not reduced all public services to skeletons. From potholes to schools to law courts to social care to ……
Yep, that's the way it's all gone but my GP's surgery was classed as outstanding and it was before Covid struck. We'd get a same day appointment no matter what you had. The doctor would call you back a few hours after you'd requested and decide if it could be sorted on the phone, or they needed to see you and it was always on the same day. I wouldn't have minded quite so much if they had said next week but a month later - No not good enough in my mind and quite insulting. I guess being a small seaside resort a lot of visitors use our services here too.
Yes it is very poor as here in Ireland they do not ask you why you want to see a GP so appointments are usually on the day or the next day. Can you make a private appointment with a cardiologist and get him to change your beta blockers. Might cost you a small fee but well worth it I think.
I dont blame you as thats a very poor system for any patient and starting to get a bit like that over here as well. The health systems throughout many countries seem to be moving towards a private style health system as is the case with over 50% of patients who have private health care in Ireland. I have two children working and married with children in the UK and both have substantial private healthcare. I have private healthcare since the mid 1970s even though we have a NHS equivalent over here. It is a bit expensive but who wants to wait months for a scan or test which can be detrimental to your health if not caught in time. The HSE (NHS equivalent) over here is where you go in an emergency like chest pains etc. We also have minor injury clinics for sprains, cuts, tummy issues etc but you have to pay unless you are over 65. Nothing stays the same it seems. Hope you get your meds sorted soon.
I dont think it is the government. In my opinion it is the Civil Service and the administrators. We have more GPs than ever before but we have an aging population and I am afraid that we have an obesity problem which requires more medical attention from the healthcare point of view. In my opinion a lot of the obesity is because of not cooking food from scratch which is far healthier. Too much sugar and refined flour. Working from home and only a 4 day week does not help he economy esp in the public sector.
Yes, I agree with you and have never been fat myself. We also have thousands of holidaymakers in this area in the summer. When last sat in a room at hospital waiting for a bed in a ward, half of the people waiting for one too were on holiday. One man and his wife were telling me they liked going to our main hospital as it was better than theirs where they lived.
Thank you Paul. Everything changed at my docs when Covid struck. I guess they enjoyed being at home and don't want to go back to working full time. There are about 8 doctors at my surgery, several nurse practitioners and at least 3 consultation rooms, plus other rooms for dressings, blood tests etc used by nurses.
I just don't see why feeling drained of energy is not as important as other ailments. Unless they're assuming all AF patients will feel tired!
Feeing drained of energy is no laughing matter. I have always been an early bird and work best very early morning. By 1pm you have your 8 hours in and everything else is a bonus.
I must follow my own advice and exrecise mind over matter - I struggle to wake up before 9am these days. Mind you I did break a bone in my shoulder and spent a number of weeks in hospital which is why I haven't posted much recently.
Yes! Still painful and I had the district nurses coming in 4 times a day when they discharged me from hospital. Still there are people far worse off than I. It will mend so I won't grumble.
My greatest fear is falling again but I'll overcome that. It's starting to heal but if I fell again on that side then I'm in trouble!
That sounds dreadful Paul, sorry you've been through so much pain and trauma. I can easily understand your fear of falling again, especially while still feeling fragile.
I fell off a kerb. Broke my shoulder and fractured my skull. Was sent home the same day. I wish they had kept me in. I really needed to rest. Concussion was awful. My other half overlooked the bruises and wanted me to carry on being a dedicated wife, cooking and cleaning. I soon learnt what a remote control was for.
Good morning jeanjeannie50, our surgery ‘group’ now consists of eight locations (two of which are at leat 14 miles from each other) I don’t understand why we need so many surgeries in one group, especially as they all have their own practice manager and a load of other under managers!!! Now they are going to ‘re-brand’ because the current brand doesn’t include the geographical areas of the two that are 14 miles apart!! Huge money waste. We have the same issues, trying to get an appointment is VERY stressful and difficult. We have the ‘online consultation’ which you may get an appointment within three days, if you’re lucky. Gone are the days when you could just pick up the phone and speak to someone to arrange an appointment within a couple of days!! Is no wonder people have high blood 🩸 pressure trying to navigate the system. Isn’t it about time people used their common sence!!! ☹️☹️
That's what I've decided to do, what I think is best for me while I await my appointment next month! I know what's causing my weariness, so I've done something about it.
Yes we have two surgeries in our group, they are about 3 miles apart. One is a beautiful old detached house in a small village and the other made with a lot of glass and looking out over our town harbour, it's a beautiful location but like sitting in a greenhouse and I'm always asking if they can open some windows. I walk there and it's up a long flight of steps so am hot when I get there, think my internal thermostat has broken.
Yes they drop out to places like the USA and Saudi etc where they clean up for 10 or twenty years! so I would think its more financial than physical burnout.
I meant the UK doctors and specialists are moving to foreign countries and not the other way round?. Same as the Irish medics are moving to countries where you are properly rewarded for your degree in medicine, nurses also, though difficult to blame them.
I would ask the pharmacist if you have one attached to the surgery - we have and if I go in or phone and ask him a question which he thinks needs to be referred to GP he often comes back within 24 hours with an appointment for me within a few days. Here we can get an appointment for an emergency either that morning if we call between 8am and 9am and in the afternoon/evening if we call between 2pm and 3pm. A non urgent appointment is 3 weeks - actually 3 weeks to the day usually It was better before Covid as we just turned up for morning surgery on a first come first served basis.
Well like you I messed up my beta blocker regime last week, Bisoprolol taken at night for me and a very low dose 1.25mg. Forgot to take it one night so gargled it down the following morning . I felt rubbish all morning. Won’t make that mistake again in a hurry. Interestingly I just got my next prescription and the box actually states take it at night, never noticed that before. I’d like to give it up completely to be honest
Also like you I got a glass splinter, but embedded in my thumb. Nurse at the doctors said nothing could be done about it, so here I am two years later and every now and again it gives me a real sharp reminder that it’s there. You did well to get yours out so promptly.
Oh my goodness, fancy having to put up with glass in your thumb. I was lucky to have seen the Nurse Practitioner who had once worked in A&E . He said he'd lots of experience taking glass out of people there.
My wife had glass left in her arm after she tried to stop an old kitchen door from slamming shut when front door opened. The glass in the door was old and thin (not up to current standards) and she put her arm out to stop it and it went straight through. Most of the glass was removed at A&E but a small triangular piece left in - couldn't feel it and didn't really know it was there. Months later the wound hadn't healed properly. Then one day as we were walking around an aviation museum my wife felt something in her arm. There was good light in there and she held her arm up to the light and the little piece of glass glinted as it was sticking out of her arm and we managed to pull it out! My Gran always used to say these things would work their way out. Don't know if that is a medical truth or not but it certainly did in this case.
Ouch! That not only sounds very painful for your wife but those sort of accidents can be life threatening. If the glass had cut through an artery, doesn’t bear thinking about. My tiny ickle little splinter was a bit of thin greenhouse glass that went in the pressure pad part of my thumb. Bled for days, thank you Apixaban. I’ve been told it will eventually come out, but of course I keep pressing that area so the blighter may never show its face again.
I managed to kneel on a sewing needle, I was trying to tack one of my feeble efforts at sewing and decided the floor was the easiest place. I went to my doctor to have it removed and he told me that he once had a patient who had shrapnel in his body from WW2 and it was there until he died many years later.
No, but septic finger could end up being sepsis, that’s the difference. I did the same over an infected cut on my ankle, idiot receptionist wouldn’t book me to see a nurse and I ended up with infected leg, powerful antibiotics and three weeks of nurse visits to dress ulcer. I complained to everyone I saw 😡
You're right, we don't think about how quickly sepsis develops and becomes serious.My friend recently had a small cut on her finger and got sepsis, she was in hospital for three weeks and is still off work.To make matters worse for her, her daughter and son in-law were arriving with her new grandson from Australia the day after my friend was admitted to hospital, for a two week visit. They were coming for her sixtieth birthday, for the family to meet the baby boy.
True re the sepsis, but I am more worried about getting that in my leg wound from where I had a skin cancer removed. Was on my shin and a gaping wound was left there (skin transplant didn't take), had it done 9th Jan but still not healed yet.
No, there's no plans to do anything else to the wound, it was about the size and depth of half an apricot. The skin cancer was actually really small. The plastic surgeon wore what looked like long binoculars over her eyes so I guess she could see what needed removing. She said she'd see me again in 4 weeks time but that was about 6 weeks ago!!!
I hope she does something about it when you see her, it doesn't seem right to leave you like that.Enjoy your gardening. I too am a plantaholic and grow a lot of our veggies.
My Verapamil medication was reduced last week and that's made a huge difference to my energy levels. My blood pressure had gone very low and I felt so unwell. With the reduction I feel more like my old self but my heart is racing more.
Rock and hard place comes to mind, but I'm having regular GP appointments working closely with the cardiologist to try to find a balance.
It's difficult knowing what to do for the best isn't it. That's good that you're having regular GP appointments. I've not been too aware of my heart racing more but this will only be my 3rd day of not taking my morning pill. It's all hills and long flights of steps where I live and I'm driving to a small town today that has a steep main street, will walk slowly and see how my heart behaves.
Is your medication used to treat rate control or High BP or both? I think they all make a person feel like rubbish. It is awful to feel bad on the medication.
Oh Jean, no you are certainly not being unreasonable! It’s the same situation here in the states. Seems as though after the Covid-19 outbreak nothing has been the same.
And, as far as meds go, I was considering a new bp med also (one that would help me with my Raynauds). I say keep tweaking until you find what’s right for you.
Surprised to hear that you’re still on meds.. thought you had an ablation and thought you only needed to be on blood thinner afterwards?
I’ve been scheduled for one for some time. This one to be more involved than the last so I keep putting it off… now feeling very uncertain.
I've had three ablations but am now in constant AF. I have to say it's a lot easier than the high rates I used to get with PAF. My heart rate is generally between 60-90 lately.
If you have tried changing your diet to a more additive free one and that hasn't worked then an ablation is the only hope.
Not necessarily I am in low rate permanent AF and only take anticoagulants for this it is still AF a regular irregular beat. Average resting rate around 55 and unless exercising no higher than 120 for very short periods and usually around 80 during waking hours.
I've been told that I wont be offered any more ablations or cardioversions. Have been in constant AF since the end of 2019 but my rate is usually between 60-90bpm, so far better than it's ever been in the past.
Artificial additives are a sure trigger for AF, for me it was especially artificial sweeteners. Just try avoiding them and see if your AF improves. I wish with all my heart that I'd tried that before any of my three ablations.
I don't think your fear is irrational. For the surgeons this is just routine, but whilst some people take it in their stride for others it's a big deal.
In the olden days😂 when I was a lass, people were just told they needed an operation and they doffed their cap and had it done. They didn't question it, they didn't know the details, they thought the surgeons were demi-gods.
Now we are offered surgery and it's up to us to decide one way or the other, the onus is on us. And we are told what it entails - the thought of them going into both sides of the arteries through the wall would sound scary to many people, although the surgeons are experts and well practiced.
But we're not trained, our knowledge is limited, and we're not impartial - our bodies are the most precious things we have, especially our hearts - so sometimes I wonder if it would be better to have the possible benefits and downsides of a procedure explained without knowing exactly how it would be done, accompanied by support to help decide if it's right for you. It's a big decision to make on your own.
Love my Cardiologist but always six months wait. Can see PAs but they do not want to change anything. I like you, feel wonderful if off my Lopressor but then my AF really goes crazy and scary and I have to take asap. Wish I felt better. Seriously considering an ablation although I am 84 and concerned about risk although have been in great health with the exception of AFib. My internist started Digoxin and wants to get me off Lopressor
I tried Digoxin when waiting for one of my many cardioversions, but it put me in a daze both physically and mentally. A friend takes it and it has really helped her. We all respond to meds so differently.
I’m glad you were able to size the day Jean and make your garden good. Those moments are precious even if short-lived.
I don’t know enough about beta blockers to help, but I do know the ones I was given were pill in pocket so presumably it would’ve been okay to split a pill in half. You would need to ask your pharmacist about reducing the dose.
Not at all unreasonable to bemoan the long waiting lists in GP surgeries across the country.
I've always loved gardening and willingly admit to being a plant-aholic. Just a horrible chore when you don't feel up to doing it because of 'medication' causing a lack of energy. A wall that divides my patio from the garden fell down in strong winds a few months ago and that's making me super stressed trying to get it all taken away. Plants are growing up through it and concealing it slightly. I thought I could go out with a sledge hammer and break it up myself, but no it doesn't want to break!
No I wont go to pharmacist, will wait until I see doc and what can be suggested. Would cut of my nose to spite my face and I'm feeling pretty nasty about having to wait so long. Of course if my heart rate changes and goes faster I'd have to re-think what to do.
The wind did so much damage. We had someone’s shed roof damage our shallots and apple cordons. It’s very disheartening. I’m not sure “use a sledgehammer”would be my first line of advice for someone with AF. But I bet your garden’s lovely!
It is lovely, if I say so myself, has lots of colour. I'm loath to cut the back lawn as it's a mass of daisies, but it needs doing. I've left a small lawn uncut at the very back as it was full of primroses and other wild flowers. It's all too much for one person really. I did have a gardener to help at one time, but he came to me one day and when I said what I wanted him to do he answered, "Do this, do that!" He was in a dreadful mood and then proceeded to pull brambles out of the back hedge with his bare hands (shudder), his helper did the same. I asked how he could do that and he just shrugged. I've given up on him and am looking for another.
gosh no, 4 June is miles away 🥲. I struggled on beta blockers, totally wiped the floor with me, consultant moved me to digoxin which needs monitoring but it was so much better for me. I hope you get things fixed and keep that super energy x
I too hope the new energy stays, I guess it will if I miss my morning Metoprolol dose and just take it in the evening. Fed up with with the way people with AF are treated. It's awful that so many of us are left feeling tired because of the meds we take. I think beta blockers don't just slow the heart but every other part in our bodies too. I feel more clear minded now.
I think beta blockers don't just slow the heart but every other part in our bodies too. I feel more clear minded now.
I couldn’t agree more, I came off the meds in March this year and couldn’t believe the difference in energy immediately.
When they say it’s a small dose of b-blocker and you won’t notice much difference, take that with a pinch of salt, it makes a difference. It’s like a car on half throttle, but if that’s what you need to protect the engine it can be a benefit to many.
Shows the power of your body.....it increases energy to try and compensate for the BB, forget the BB and the increased energy produced is revealed unfettered 😃.
It's so frustrating when you know that you need some help and can't get it. I keep reading about people adjusting their own Meds, no wonder when you can't get a review. I'm on Bisoprolol and recently had it reduced again to 1.25, started at 5mg before my ablation. Was just reading the letter that my EP sent to my GP, he mentioned that my cognitive function had been severely impaired on 5mg!
What, I hope it was you that told him that and not from his diagnosis of you. My memory is dreadful lately, names of people and things are particularly hard to remember. I had energy when I took Bisoprolol but it made the bottom of my legs hurt particularly when in bed or being still.
Yes, I was saying how I felt better on 2.5 and was hoping to reduce again as my HR was so low (resting 46//48) I mentioned that I now felt that 'I' was starting to reappear and that on 5mg I couldn't follow a phone conversation or answer questions on daytime TV quizzes! He agreed and reduced dose to 1.25 with the ok to swap up if I had any AF spikes. He's trusting me to use my own judgement but the idea is to stay on 1.25 at night for now unless there is a problem.
I have an echocardiogram this afternoon and am feeling very apprehensive, this will tell me if my heart failure is reversing and if we've managed to avoid mitral valve repair surgery . I've taken an extra 1.25 bisoprolol this morning to help with the dreaded white coat syndrome. When I was 6 years old I has suspected TB (it was actually avian starin tb and didn't cause any problems) I was hospitailsed in an isolation hospital for a month with infrequent visitors allowed. Bot my babies had problems requiring extended short stays at birth, topped up with recent femoral artery damage after ablation requiring an emergency admissin in March and arterial repair surgery. All this hasn't helped. Desperately trying to stay calm tis morning so off outside to plant more veggies!
What a lovely upbeat start to your post Jean! And you are right to have a little whinge - it is very rare for you! It's a shame about the pains in your leg when taking Bisoprolol which otherwise works well for you. I hope you can get it changed soon for something that suits 🤞 How was your HR off it? Take care x
By not taking my morning 25mg of Metoprolol my heart rate is about 10 beats a minute more than it was, but I haven't checked it much as early days at the moment.
Yes thanks Jean. The ablation has held for nearly 2 years now. But I know it is just a respite but hope to enjoy the break for a while yet 🤞🙂How about trying Nevribolol ( sorry about spelling but you know what I mean 😅)
That wait is unacceptable Jean, I’ve recently had to reintroduce a beta blocker, bisoprolol 1:25mg I’m sick of telling the GP it makes me feel dizzy, spaced out and fluffy headed. Their reaction is it’s only a tiny dose. I’m going to move it to evening and hope I sleep through the worst of it. You may have solved another puzzle for me with your post. I’ve had really achy legs particularly the right one, it feels like cramp then shooting pains, GP says it’s because of needed new knees it’s not but maybe it is the bisoprolol.
I’d ring the Drs again and explain that the lack of energy is affecting your mental health, ( it’s a buzz word that triggers a response) and it’s not untrue doing things we love is proven to be good for our mental wellbeing therefore not being able to do them is obviously bad for us.
Totally agree! GPs don't listen nor do they read any letters from other medical practitioners as I've learned to my cost! Why do we have to fight so hard at our age. Unacceptable!
I'm feeling so much more alive without my morning Metoprolol. I may well cancel the appointment and just do my own thing. I wont bother with them like they don't with me. Will see how my heart gets on now and perhaps feel that it may be as well I don't get to see them for a while so that I can try out just one tablet each evening.
Guess we shouldn’t advocate doing our own thing, but to be honest that sounds like a plan. Following your militant behaviour 😂I cut my 1:25mg of bisoprolol in half this morning which was a fiddle even with a pill cutter took half and will take the other half tonight. If we can’t get timely sensible well considered advice we’re really left with no options but to do what we think is right. The peasants are revolting up the revolution x
I too love my new garden here in France Jean. But am finding it difficult to do anything for too long. No energy. Of course we have to take into account that we are not getting any younger. I take 1.25 mg Bisoprolol morning and evening and that knocks me out. It was once increased to 5mg and that was awful. I am pleased you are an able to have days in your garden. We have high temperatures for a few days here. So I will be out there, sitting in the sun, even if I can’t do anything!
The weather has been wonderful here too, sunshine gives us such a lift. Enjoy sitting in it. I can't recall what dose of Bisoprolol I was on but it was either 2.5 or 1.5. So doesn't it make the lower part of your legs from knee down ache?
Now there’s a thought Jean. For years I have had a draining sensation through my legs. I have been on Bisoprolol for years. I have never thought it could be my drugs. I have mentioned it in the past to to my surgeon and consultants but they couldn’t throw any light on it and never suggested it could be my drugs. I wonder! If anyone else reads this and has the same feeling, please let me know! Thanks Jean.
But are you taking the 1000ug SUBLINGUAL nugget SOLGAR as B12 gets lost in the stomach. Whereas the nugget you suck and it travels straight into blood supply.
Also taking B Vitamins and swallowing doesn't work. Look at your B12 level. This is a separate request on your blood form. Just B12.
When I tried to get another brand I would need 20 pills a week.
No, you're not Jean, it's disgusting. I was only reading in the paper yesterday that our services are overwhelmed as there are far too many immigrants coming onto the Country and we are over populated.Our surgeries are the same, routine appointments (if there is such a thing) have a month waiting times 😡
The whole world appears to have gone mad! How lovely it would be to return to a time like the 60's and 70's when life was simple. In those days my GP would tell you every nit picking thing about your ailment and you felt listened to. Mine removed my first basal cell carcinoma, just said come down to the hospital (a small one in our town - now closed) this Thursday and I'll remove it. I feel nasty about having to wait so long, these days I'm not afraid to complain.
Absolutely right, the world has gone mad!!! I wish we could go back to the 60s and 70s, even the 80s wasn't as bad as it is now. So much rushing about and greed, everybody wants something from you but you have extreme difficulty in getting what you want
I have had such a stressful time following my ablation, both with my mobile phone company (can't make or receive calls due to the 3G masts being turned off) and my pension company who are just dragging their feet!! Money and time, what difficulties we have with both now 🥺😡😢
It's a perfect storm... people living longer and with multiple complaints and swamped with immigrants ,in the London area it's a nightmare getting anything done.
I have been a patient at the same practice for 45 years and they have been wonderful - until post Covid. Now, you can’t call in in person and make an appointment but have to phone between 8 - 9 in the morning. It is not unusual to have to ring repeatedly for 3 days before the engaged signal stops and you get through. If they answer after 9, it’s too late to make an appointment ! With regards your problem, I think no one ( except those of us in similar situations and similar age ) understands how important time is to us as we get older. The people administering the rules are much younger than us now ( the ones who understood have retired ! ) and they don’t realise a month waiting for any kind of medical help is way too long. Especially when the sun is shining and you need to garden ! I don’t know how you can speed things up, but I sympathise and think you have every reason to be very annoyed !
I'm afraid I feel very nasty about it. We have to go on to an online system called Klinik to fill in a form and request seeing a doctor? Before that we just rang in and the doc called us back in the next few hours. They call the method now progress! Yes, I've been with my practice for over 40 years too.
I was about to comment how the fine weather can give us all a boost of energy and make us feel better when I saw that you had forgotten the BB! I forgot my night time dose a few days ago too, and remember waking up having slept better than usual and feeling very much more energetic and clear headed.
My Sotalol is quite powerful and I know it does keep my AF at bay by creating a steady low heart rate, but like you, as we get older, energy levels start to suffer too and we forget just how much they knock us down too.
The Catch 22 situation is that when it comes to other things to try, we never know the likely result and I am locked into the attitude 'And always keep a-hold of nurse, For fear of finding something worse.' (Hillaire Belloc)
Keep enjoying the good weather and I hope your appointment finds you something better in June.
Do let us know how it works out with you. Anything which makes life go better has got to be worth it.
This wonderful weather is a great uplift for all of us. Just going to go out and mow the back lawn. That will please me once done and I can look out on it.
In an ideal world, it would be better to change to another medical practice who use a more efficient and satisfactory appointment system. If I phone our practice, my GP phones me back often within an hour. We discuss the problem and he decides whether an appointment is needed; if it is, it is always later that morning. If I insist on seeing him, I always can.
In your case, if metoprolol is causing this lethargy, have you tried something like diltiazem? Also, I was thinking, if you medically need a slowed heart for some health benefit, then the tiredness might be something you have to put up with for that reason, i.e. the lesser of two evils?
Yes it's difficult to know what to do for the best. I definitely feel better all day and have more energy without the Metoprolol. The thing is there are other beta blockers that I've never had the chance to try.
I've spoken to a nurse friend who works at my doctors surgery and she said they were struggling to keep financial limits down that were set 5 years ago, She explained how all utilities have risen etc., etc. Also that quite a lot of patients came to see the doctors saying how tired they felt. In my nastiness I thought to myself well you would think they would have found a remedy by now! She did say how GP's and nurses were working really hard and I trust her to tell me the truth.
I would like to try Diltiazem if it should seem suitable for me. When I go along to the surgery I can refer to the last ECG they did earlier this year.
I certainly have been busy, especially as I've been out for most of the day. I'm one of those people who think it's discourteous not to answer a post someone has taken the time to send me.
No, you are justified in whinging. I was on a big dose of dilitiazem (I have asthma) and asked for it to be reduced a while ago after an ablation. I now take half the dose in the evening and have much more energy. When I was first diagnosed, a young doctor, long before covid, told me that as part of his training, he took e an amount of dilitiazem and then continued his normal exercise, but he was unable to do half as much . I have always been glad of this advice.
I was introduced to 1/2 dose Diltiazem 180mg AM. It was too much of a drop in h/Rate (within 2 hrs) and for 2 years 4 months I have been taking 120mg moderate release.
With Bisoprolol 2.5mg PM for BP.
Separate them. BP meds are better at night for the rise in BP early morning.
That's interesting re Diltiazem and the effect it can have. I'll bear that in mind when I eventually get to see a doctor. Since I've stopped my morning dose of Metoprolol I've had so much more energy too. I may ask to just stay on the evening dose.
I decided that would be a good idea as I had a lot of AF at night - it seems to appear in the early hours - and I have more energy during the day . Best of luck when you see the doctor.
There is no way I could work in my garden all day now! 2- 3 hours max and by then my back is killing me. I try to pace myself as if I get overtired it can trigger afib. Have you any idea how high your heart rate would be without a rate control drug? If the half dose of Metaprolol keeps you under 100bpm I'd be inclined to stick with it. I take a tiny dose of Nebivolol but often think I could do without when in NSR. When in afib a much bigger dose doesn't seem to do anything to bring my heartrate down if the Kardia is to be believed. I'm a bit dubious about it as it doesn't seem that fast when I take my pulse. Having to wait ages for GP appointments seems typical in the NHS these days. Too many doctors working part time , too many patients . I don't mind waiting 3 weeks here for my prescription renewal appointment (obligatory) as I know I could get one quicker if anything serious cropped up. Bisoprolol at 5mg gave me bad pains in my legs too as well as taking away all my energy , worsening my asthma and giving me a headache 2 hours after ttaking the pill. Beta blockers suck for a lot of us!
I've just been out mowing my back lawn while it's cooler and have decided I'm going to ignore all telephone calls now as I feel totally shattered. Took my sister who has learning difficulties out today to do some shopping in a nearby town and every bit of my patience has been used up. She has back problems too from where she fell down her stairs a few years ago. My younger sister and I have moved her down to the area where we live so that we can keep an eye on her.
I've been talking to a friend this evening who works at my doctors practice and she said most of the women doctors work part time, not the men. She said that life was really hectic there for all of the staff and I have to say I believe what she says. She would tell me the truth. I told her about my appointment that was so far ahead and she said the most common ailment at the surgery is people feeling tired all the time.
Good Morning Jean, I have been rubbing in voltarol cream into my legs for so long because of pain, and I take Bisoprolol. I'm also so drained of energy. This could be the reason many thanksDebs
Ah yes it could very well be the tablets. Could you see your doc re reducing your dose or trying something different? Actually I'm quite happy just taking the evening dose of my beta blocker.
Not at all. I am 80 so remember when family doctors knew all their patients and were amazing. Now we have a group practice and if one is fortunate enough to get an appointment it is usually on the phone with a person you haven’t seen before! This afternoon I am finally getting a phone call from a new woman to discuss the results of an ultrasound I had 11 days ago when we might be out so it might have to be on my mobile! And the very pleasant woman doc I got to see a few months ago is now on maternity leave! You need to be pretty fit to cope with having medical problems these days!! Or fortunate enough to have a partner to care for you as I do.
Unreasonable ? like hell you are - medication - undoubtedly needed and life-saving stuff but as we know none of it comes without a down-side and often a balancing act - what I find Jean is that there’s not enough thorough monitoring once you’re prescribed a Med and not enough thought and concern for people’s quality of life and putting the work in to allow people to live to the best of their ability - Hope you get it sorted soon
I think June 4th is pretty standard for a medication review which is obviously how they are looking at it. I phoned mine on Tuesday when I was in a bad arrhythmia, just wanting advice. Was told all appointments were taken and to ring back next day which I did,then was told I can't see anyone until Wednesday next week. Thankfully the arrhythmia has settled.
I was also very upset to hear that 3 of my regular gPs who know my history inside out have all retired and I can only see a new doctor who knows absolutely nothing about me. She will obviously want to try medication I've already tried over the past 30 years. The only person left who knows me now only works 2 days a week and it's impossible to get an appointment. No continuity of care at all.
When Drs change and some are only interested in seeing you over 1 condition I tell them that I come with more than 1 condition and I wish to be treated holestically.
Some just want to repeat prescriptions!
Periodically I write a complaint. I had the director of the clinic ring me last week.
Holistic care in the patient PROFILE is so important.
This Locum who has had AF told me that whenever I have a new Dr/Locum to see that I shoulder take my folder with all clientition letters with me. She was trying to understand my history and she said that from my records it was impossible as important conditions were not noted.
Do take your folder with you.
Perhaps recap in short history.
Patient who don't do this run the risk of service risk that the Dr even your regular Dr overlooks things.
Like the '2nd Dr" prescribed me a laxative which contained potassium and my potassium was at the high end already.
I knew before I got to the end you weren't in the UK. There's no such thing as a patient profile or a folder. It's pot luck whether they have time to even glance through years of our records. Holistic care doesn't exist. Continuity of care would be wonderful like the days when we had a true family doctor who knew every one since they were children. Those days are long gone.as an example, I've taken oxycodone for sever spinal problems for 30 years, to the point where it n o longer works and can't be increased any further. IT's highly addictive; almost impossible to come off and extremely dangerous. I had one new GP responding to a government decree to reduce the amount of prescribing oxycodone who attempted to make me stop it instantly, cold turkey!
Never heard of "Manage my Health". In the UK we have either the NHS App or one called Patient Access where all letters are now available but they don't go back very far. I do usually ask for copies to be sent to me.
I honestly think this is half the problem - they need to treat the person not individual problems - everything in our bodies is very much interlinked and compartmentalising each problem does not help resolve health problems
I had a lovely young lady doctor who got to know me really well but she's been off sick for almost a year now. She never forgot the time I refused to be sent to hospital, so knew I wouldn't make an unnecessary fuss about anything I had wrong with me.
Hello Jeanjeannie. How wonderful to feel so well! Make the most of it. I sympathise about the beta blocker. I'm on bisoprolol and that makes me feel as if I have brain fog and very unwell. Strange how you felt so well on that. The cardiologist reduced the dose from 5mg to 2.5 and I still feel awful. I always have side effects, but I find that cardiologists are loathe to change medication, if your heart mechanics/electronics are reasonably OK. I found apixaban had side effects and have since researched anti-coagulants and the one that pops up with very few side effects is the good old warfarin. I doubt modern cardiologists will prescribe that now. I understand also about your frustration regarding prescriptions. I virtually had a stand up row with my GP as she refused to reinstate the bisoprolol after the cardiologist had advised me to try coming off it for a while but then after high BP advised me to return to it. I even sent her an email from my cardiologist advising me to retake it. The GP had been prescribing bisoprolol for 10 years prior to this. She kept insisting that the cardiologist must write to her requesting its reinstatement. Eventually, when she realised how upset I was, she reinstated it without any problem! I find it all very stressful. I don't quite understand how doctors are unable to understand the stress they can cause where medication is involved. Good luck and hope you have more good days! Maglyn
At 2 years 3 months when I was sorting clinical letters, I came across
My base Hospital transfer discharge report give the following prescription of 110mg x twice daily PRADAXA. At stroke age I was 70 years.
The transfer Hospital my local where I was weekend plus 1 day discharged me on 150mg PRADAXA x twice day without any discussion.
I was now discharged with knowledge that I had consented to a biopsy for thyroid carcinoma papillary cancer to have going forward.
Now research says if you have cancer you shouldn't be taking an anti-co.agulant.
But earlier I did not know this and I had had a stroke.
I rang the Dr to have prescription change. She told me, you have had it over 2 years so leave it at 150mg x twice. No way I said. I was 72 then.
I argued. My right. She changed it but I had to read "Patient wants this amount". Not the fact that originally at Base Hospital I was prescribed, by my Triage Team, 110mg x twice PRADAXA.
So I changed Drs a new Locum had arrived, and she took off the remark.
Stand up for your right to put the 'wrong' right.
I never saw a doctor on the Mondaywhilst they put services in place A speech therapist and occupational therapist came to see me. I was discharged Tuesday.
When I looked up the Dr's name he is no longer in NZ.
I get a hard non itchy rash and its either PRADAXA or Synthroid (has sulphite)??
An allery to sulphur, nickel, brown plaster, old oestrogen stickers and oestrogen skin cream.
So sorry you had such an awful time and managed to change doctors. Well done for fighting! Unfortunately, here in the UK it's virtually impossible to change doctors in our practice, let alone in the area. Many practices have closed and amalgamated with ours and it's now overloaded. We live in a very deprived area of the UK which and doctors are few and far between. Most of our doctors are part time (work about 2 days a week) and rest of time possibly doing private work not NHS. Glad you're all sorted out and that you are recovering well. All the best, Maglyn, UK
We have problems with getting in to the Dr if we move to a new address and we don't want to travel back..
But I have a big profile. The stroke happened at my clinic where I was taking just B12 as deficient in B12. I had been tried on Lopressor but my notes should have read no ACE blockers because of Embrace? or something which made me cough back in 2008 I think for hypertension. Then put on Metoprolol. Off it 2010.
I also have Thyroid Cancer diagnosed 4 days in hospital after the stroke. Caused the stroke.
I have shown that I can manage my health, my meds and usually ask them what I need.
Emergencies I go and wait in there.
They have to have spaces.
I always make an appointment for next one as I come out of the currant one. Be prepared! I change them like my PET/CT scan landed on Drs appointment day and I'm going next Tuesday a fortnight after.
I have done so many surveys with them after stroke,AF and thyroid cancer.
Now I am on scan No4 for cancer ? return. And the PET scan shows that I could have a tumor on pituitary gland and ask that I have an mRI as well.
What a fuss for you trying to get your meds re-instated!!
You have to experience stress and AF to really understand how it feels. I've only felt stressed once in my life and that was when I had to drive 200 miles to get to my sister when her husband died. Coming back using a satnav I got lost. Was so stressed I didn't want to speak to anyone for days after getting home.
It's a shame you have to wait so long for an appointment. As far as the effects Metoprolol has on you, I guess we're all different in that regard. I take 50mg at morning and evening, with no detrimental effects to my energy; however Bisoprolol did so in the past. I hope if you do change meds, that you can have more whirlwind sessions in the garden! I'm an avid gardener too.
That's amazing that you can take that big dose of Metoprolol with no side effects.
I love gardening, wish I had more time to do it - where does time go?
I mowed my back lawn this evening while it was cool.
There are some wonderfully big weeds in it and I can't wait to get out and dig them up. I swear the weed killer I sprayed them with has made them bigger.
I have been on this forum with posts about how metoprolol affected me!
After Stroke with AF I was told of my meds and when she cited Metoprolol I said no way.
But she disregarded me and I was prescribed 3 x 27.75? a day!
Yes, breathless and no energy so greatly fatigued. She an Endocrinologist said I could reduce them.
They didn't even control my rapid heart rate. Or the persistent AF.
At 1 year 4 months I finally saw a Heart Specialst (No follow up for stroke)! who asked for ECHO, ECG and Heart Monitor.
Well, my H/Rate Day Avg and remember I couldn't exert myself was 186!
Night always 47avg with pauses!
Now LOPRESSOR I understand is an ACE Blocker and related to Metoprolol. I stopped that as I was loosing protein in my urine.
Changed to Bisoprolol 154 avg Day 47avg Night WITHOUT pauses.
But left knowingly with uncontrolled H/Rate.
BBs are NOT helpful for H/Rate. I needed some med which was dramatic.
At 2 years 2 months referred to a private H/Specialist. He introduced CCB Calcium Channel Blocker. Diltiazem 180mg AM was too high and within 5 days of starting changed to 120mg Moderate release and that was ideal not down to 51 but down to 86-96bpm.
Losing 3kg brought me down to 60s.
But heart damage done Left Atrium severely dilated and R Ventricle regurgitating!
That made me unable to consider cardioversion, ablation or antiarrhymic meds. Although Diltiazem has a similar reaction due to controlling H/Rate.
Oh, JeanJeannie I'm so glad that now you can point your finger at Metoprolol and BAN it from your meds list.
A 24-hr Heart Monitor whilst taking it wuld have shown your heart UNDER STRESS I am sure.
Rest easy. Can you cut your pill in 1/2? Whilst waiting?
I'm just taking my night time 25mg dose of Metoprolol at the moment. Will now wait for my 4th June appointment and see how I'm feeling then and what is said.
But it is now no longer given to those of us with AF.
Bisoprolol doesn't affect breathing as does Metoprolol can. That's why it is not suitable for asthmatics.
All the best for 4th June.
Meanwhile a decision has been made re my Pet/CT 3rd scan. Repeat CT Scan of 2 lymphs and a large area in 6 months time for comparison. And MRI on Pituitary Gland to understand why this area turned 'warm'. Not 'hot'.
Radio Active Tracers highlight any cancer in the body. From head to toe!
Just another 'find' by accidental scanning. Otherwise bdy is A1 including organs. But they left the heart out of it.
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It was better before Covid as we just turned up for morning surgery on a first come first served basis. 
Breathlessness and no Energy
Ablation yesterday
4 month post ablation ep visit yesterday 
Finally had my ablation yesterday
A lot going on...
