Had ablation in May of this year for lone AFib. Structurally normal heart. Had mild runs of PACs prior to the procedure that would come and go. Now going on 7 months after procedure and they are more bothersome than the AFib was. Last for hours and/or days on end. It’s really wearing me down. I’ve tried every breathing method but it never works for me. QOL is just terrible for an otherwise healthy 50 yo male. This forum is a fantastic resource so I’m hoping for something that worked for someone else. I’m willing to try anything. I’ve tried daily Flecainide and it did nothing. Can another ablation be done to address this??
Thank you for all the candid answers and help on this forum. It is truly a God send.
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Golf1515
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Hi! Are you quite sure they are PACs?! After the ablation, people, in general, complain about PVCs, and the difference is huge. I have experience with PVCs, lasted for about 2 weeks, with no apparent reason, and it was hard to live with them. I can imagine how you feel after so many months with them... Once sure that they are actually PVCs, there is a simple way to help - coffee, with caffeine (3 a day, would be enough). If they really are PACs, than avoid the coffee, it will make you feel worse. Hope it helps in a way...
My own experience, together with the results of the suggestions given for the Fibromyalgia patients. Both, Fibromyalgia and cardiac arrhythmia (not all of them), count to dysautonomia - the disturbance of Autonomous, Nervous System. If it helps with Fibro, it can the same way help with PVCs. If not, easy to stop, isn't it. Coffee remains a NO-NO for patients being positively in AF!
hi Nesko. Thanks for the reply! I’m not a coffee drinker and never have been. It’s always been soda for me but I have been drinking caffeine free soda for months now and cut way back on any caffeine that I used to consume! Still no improvement sadly. I am certain they are PACs bc of my CARDIA ekg results. I’m super frustrated
Sorry to hear that you are having this problem. You say you've been drinking caffeine free soda but does that contain artificial additives/sweeteners. They were a sure trigger for my arrhythmia problems.
Agree with Jean. Switch to water if you can. I wasn’t a consumer of fizzy drinks or artificial sweeteners before I developed AF, so they weren’t a factor for in my case, but it is becoming more apparent through recent research that artificial sweeteners are not good for the gut microbiome, and the health of the gut microbiome has implications in the development of many long term conditions.
I had recurring ectopics for about 12 months after ablations - usually after doing certain exercises which required bending or touching the floor. They gradually diminished at about 9 months and I stopped noticing them altogether about 12 months.
Thank you for the reply CDreamer! These ectopics are almost worse than the Afib and it makes me think I should’ve never gotten the procedure. It’s super frustrating but your story gives me some hope that maybe it’ll improve…..eventually 🙏
After my ablation and when I came of meds recently the cardiologist said to take Bisoprolol if I was bothered by ectopics which seem to be normal after an ablation for a few months. I have no idea why she thinks Bisoprolol would be helpful but thought I would just share.Hope they fade soon.
can you / would you post the Kardia pdf trace on here? Obviously trained medics are the ones who would know but several of us have lots of experience of our own Kardia traces. I don’t get many ectopics now having had an ablation 16 months ago, but did get some this summer - here’s a trace pdf including what I think are PACs
you sound like me after my procedure at the end of April. I was told it stopped my flutter but it didn’t matter I never felt right after the procedure of the VOM it was aggressive through three different areas and I’m still not sure exactly what was done I know it was over 5 hours then several in recovery as well as overnight due to some bleeding. Since then I have barely been able to walk down my hallway being breathless and in chest pain besides the constant thumping etc. I ended up changing doctors and October best thing I could’ve done because the original did nothing for me and ignored me even though it was his procedure he had pioneered. I had a cardioversion the end of October for days after meeting my doctor. He wasted no time trying to make me better. It was wonderful and it worked but sadly failed this past Saturday. Only the flutter returned not the eighth him and I do feel the difference. He told me flutter is easier to fix so I am meeting the EP on the seventh. I would still do the cardioversion again if I could. My new doctor feels I am resistant to things and most likely another ablation will happen quite shortly. The sooner the better. Except for the last procedure my other ablation made me feel better the next day. It was nothing I couldn’t handle with the afib itself gone. It appears that we are all much stronger than we even realize dealing with this. Once you catch a break from it you realize just how horrible it is when it returns and yet we all press on. I think people need to be made aware of just having bad if it is and what it does to us because our families don’t get it and take it much too lightly. I try to educate the people around me and though they will ooo and ahhh I guess unless you have it you don’t get it. I don’t know why I worry that people think I’m just lazy instead of realizing trying to breathe it’s like a full-time job with the nausea and pain in the chest.
The only meds I’ve had so far was amiodarone which I am highly allergic to. I was on it for four months curled up in the fetal position because I have a tendency not to make a big thing to my doctor. Multaq and Metropolol tartrate we’re very good with me until my last procedure when nothing helped and my other doctor had his nurse take me off the metropolol and on to just Multaq. I have since been told the second does nothing unless you are in sinus rhythm. I was home both after the cardioversion and now taken off Multaq again once again because it does nothing so why take another medicine is my doctors attitude I like it the way he thinks I mean. He changed my metropolol to XR extended release and I am on it twice a day. He said he may increase it again. They are quite careful with people over the age of 64 with this medicine because it tends to build up in our system is here and that is not good. I do still have a good metabolism so right now that may be a bit of an issue lol
in the states there is a campaign going on to educate on a fib it is called No Time To Wait. You can find it on the Internet. Most of us unfortunately have been educated about it already by going through it. I was luckier than any of my friends here when it first hit. People need to be aware of just how serious the chance of Stroke is and why we need blood thinners asap. Before mine was even totally diagnosed by use of a implanted loop recorder, I was put on Xarelto and I am so glad I did after reading some of you dear people here. I have had a little bad side effects of blood thinner only when I have fallen and bruised but well worth it.
it appears I’m having another ablation I will know more on the seventh. It will be my fourth a fib procedure. Only your doctor can tell you if you can have more but it seems that when you have no shorts in your electrical system for the most part they can be fixed. I’ve been told my flutter will be easier to fix. I don’t recall it ever really bothering me before not like this it’s definitely not as bad as regular a fib but the heart rate is up and the breathlessness etc. has returned without the pain in the chest as much We are all so different only your EP can really tell you what your body can handle. My cardiologist just don’t want to do any more cardioversions. He gave it a try but I can tell he doesn’t think much of them because they just don’t last very long for many of us and I think it is such a disappointment when it fails. every day I am more impressed with my new doctor. My other one is well-known you could almost say famous in his circles but this guy is the real deal not a researcher but a real Doctor Who cares
I read the response about bisoprolol and it reminded me that I feel like metoprolol decreases my PACs when I have them. Both are beta blockers . I would suggest that if the PACs continue to bother you , that you ask your doctor about trying metoprolol or bisoprolol to see if they decrease.
try magnesium glycenate or taurate and potassium. Don’t use supplements just drink low sodium V8 tomato sauce, 3 servings a day. I am not sure you have low sodium V8 tomato sauce in UK. The reasoning behind these two supplements is they regulate the electrical activity of the muscles including the heart muscle. In cardiac icu, in the states we start a drip of magnesium along with a drip of cardiazem. It is a classic protocol to control heart rate and we will go from there to see how the patient reacts and add more medication if needed.
Also avoid soda just plain water, no stimulants coffee or alcohol . It sounds tough to live like that but give it a try for two weeks . Also stay on a low sodium diet. Western diet is so high in salt and it retains water and make you drink more soda or water which increases the volemia, quantity of fluids in your veins , which in turn can stretch the atrium and cause ectopics. Also the sugar in soda can cause spikes in blood sugar , source of chronic inflammation.
Last step try 30 minutes walk a day at your own pace. All combined you will feel better. In summary it is a portion of measures of life style changes while having Afib. Hope it helps . It is easy recommended than done. Personally I religiously follow thes life style.
No, we don’t have low sodium V8 in the UK. It’s a shame because it’s very tasty.
PS !!Don’t take potassium supplements unless prescribed!! It can cause arrhythmias and seriously, for PACs or PVCs it’s not worth the risk You’re better off eating bananas, oranges, potatoes, leafy greens or coconut water.
Thank you for the advice SeanJax! I actually live in the states (Georgia) and have unfortunately experienced the cardiazem drip but it converted me on both occasions! I will give some of your suggestions a try. These ectopics are just maddening and even on days when they aren’t that bad I feel like I stay on edge which certainly doesn’t help! I was never like this prior to my ablation in May but since then the extra beats have either become more symptomatic or more frequent. Infuriating! I have tried daily Flecainide also Sotolol at low doses daily and found out the hard way they only exacerbated the issue. Now I’m back on metoprolol and Eliquis. I will find something that helps and I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. God bless 🙏
I’ve had occasional AF. Quitting alcohol has pretty much eliminated the AF and a daily dose of extended release 25 mg metoprolol has done the same for ectopics, both PACs and PVCs. The ectopics had been debilitating at times before starting on daily metoprolol.
I have not had an ablation but I made an interesting observation regarding PAC's and PVC's just this last week.
I have Vagal Afib and I use a wearable heart monitor when I sleep to keep track of my Afib Burden, PAC's and PVC's.
During sleep I was experiencing up to 2000 PAC's and 1000 PVC's, my Afib burden has been low.
I tried Acupuncture Wednesday last week for the first time practiced by a very experienced Chinese man working on my meridians from my neck to my upper back. He said the treatment will unblock many things.
Since the treatment my nightly PAC's are down to about 60 and my PVC's down to about 30.
Not sure if this dramatic decrease came about due to the acupuncture, going back this week for another treatment and will be monitoring for any changes.
Hey there Golf1515, been there where you are with the PACS after all 3 of my ablations (all three in the last 2 years) . At my worst the PACS were 10000-17000 beats a day so about 10-20% of all heart beats (experienced lots of triplets and couplets and long runs). So I know that they suck and can be extremely disconcerting, especially if you can feel the palpitations from every skipped beat (for me feels like someone is ricocheting marbles down a tube connected to my heart during every missed beat). In the short term you need to find a way to get your mind off them even for short periods of time as this helps with resilience - may mean going for lots of short walks, meditations, light exercise or stretching/ yoga, hobbies etc.. The battle here is getting your mind off the incessant physical/ mental symptoms. In the longer term you need to find ways to reduce the burden of them which may mean you still have them on a regular basis but for shorter periods of time and with longer periods between episodes. Certainly discuss switching heart medication with your health professionals, especially if you are having intense episodes daily, you may also want to look at daily magnesium taurate and CoQenz-10, to reduce burden (has helped me) . I have also found that light exercise and breathing exercises can reduce episode intensity and duration (though they are not a silver bullet for me). I have also spoken to people on other forums and they have had good success reducing PACs with traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture -but I cannot speak to this directly.
Take heart though that over time the ectopics have a tendency to wax and wane on their own and you may wake up in the coming days weeks with them gone or greatly reduced (took a few months but in both cases my PACs have come down to more manageable amounts even though you may have a bad day here and there for no apparent reason) - so try your best to get through the coming days and weeks and certainly bring these to the attention of your health care team as they will likely reinforce that these are benign (even though they sure as hell don't feel like it at times) and this can help with the mental adjustment needed to survive.
I would recommend keeping a journal for tracking the pacs to share with specialists especially if you find the pacs are increasing or triggering afib (at times my pacs might send me into afib but with no particular ryhme or reason). Rest assured you will get through this and life will be more livable soon.
Oh, I should add that my 3rd ablation this past Sept was for pacs and afib. And can say that since this ablation I will now go days and days without feeling even one pac (though still have bad days as well but much more liveable) - so yes you can have ablation for PACs if severe enough. DM me if you want to chat further
Hey there Listerines! Thank you for the reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story and suggestions. I can’t imagine how it must feel to have that many ectopics. It’s just an awful feeling especially when you’re aware of every single one. I am determined to improve my situation and still feel like I have some more stones to turn before I explore the possibility of a 2nd ablation but it helps to know it’s possible to have one to try and snuff out PACs as well as AFib itself! I may DM you later down the road if I can learn from your experiences! Thank you very much for the reply to my post. May God bless you 🙏
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