Anyone w/ avg fasting blood glucose in the 85-100 range, use a continuous glucose monitor to learn how to lower their levels to 70-85?
Do men with average fasting blood glucose levels below 80 live longer than guys above 90? These are not diabetes or pre-diabetic figures but is it possible or likely that levels in the 70s help slow the cancer better than levels in the 90s? Some of the meds we take, raise the blood glucose, such as statins and possibly the ADT meds as well.
Does anyone use the continuous glucose monitor to learn what food to eat and not eat, and when to eat them, and in what portion size etc? If so, what are your recommendations? Did lowering your glucose levels help slow your psa doubling rate or reduce your cancer volume on imaging scans?
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GeorgeGlass
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No, low blood glucose has no effect on prostate cancer. Nor do low lipids or amino acids. If you stop eating completely, your cancer will digest your healthy cells for the nutrients it wants.
ok thanks. Why do you think obese men usually fare worse than fit men, because they often don’t exercise, and their immune system and gut bacteria is unhealthy?
I can add a different perspective on bg and adt . I have been diagnosed “ medication induced “ stage 2 diabetes. Before PCa my bg was hanging in the 127 - 140 range , 5.9 A1C. After adt started my bg jumped to about 380 or so … and rarely lowered. I started 500mg metformin first , changed to 1000mg metformin … then twice a day … then time release 500s , then added glimepride… and variations of those. It’s something I’ve worked on for 4 years and continues even today. Now I’ve juggled my morning glimepride to early , moved my evening metformin to late … this to make a spread to fit in another half of glimepride about 2 in the afternoon.
I have a dedicated diabetes nurse that works with me weekly. At this point we are in the realm of how high my bg can be and still not be dangerous or of too much concern. I’m 76 , and my nurse uses the charts related to length of life likely vs how high your bg can be without too much risk. He wants me to try to keep my bg under 200 or preferably 170 ( A1C 7.5 ) .
I’ve been living in resorts and coasting , eating a lot of restaurant foods and room service. My bg jumped to about 228 - 320 or so. Back home now my 30 day is 184, 15 day is 167 and 7 day is 156 A1C 7.0 - 7.1 ) and my bg nurse is pretty happy with those results for me.
A person can’t just up the dosage of metformin or glimepride to simply deal with the elevations. There is a point where the amount of combined bg meds trigger spontaneous and literally uncontrollable projectile bowel movements, and I can’t begin to describe the horrors of that happening in the house. I’ve had to sit on and lay on plastic sheets ( covered with a disposable cloth sheet to make them more comfortable) for days and weeks and even today , it’s something I keep close monitoring of. So, up above I mentioned more widely spacing my bg meds to allow the blood concentrations to wain , this to allow inserting an additional med near mid day. ( which is working so far but “ feels “ iffy ). My target is a reliable 150s if possible … my daily food intake is 50 carbs or less and 1000 calories or less … with a “ free “ day on weekends. Even with the carb management and bg meds …still it’s a daily battle.
This is my own experience with blood glucose , but shows you a different perspective. I measure with a finger stick , 3 times a day in order to build up enough stats to develop an accurate A1C.
I’m literally disabled by ADT , use a etrike and wheeled chair for transport. I have a golds gym bike I can ride 2 1/2 miles on and a wide treadmill that I’ve used for 1/8th mile . Problem is that along with my bg being screwed by ADT, my bp and heart QRS train are even more screwed up. Just hobbling from inside the house to my truck in the driveway causes my bp to jump to 220/115 nearly instantly and a Cardiac monitor shows my qrs train looks like etch-a-sketch. Both my exercise machines have cardiac tracking in the grips and riding them is pretty much a non starter at this point.
I experienced a minor nosebleed on the treadmill, and two TIAs ( transient ischemic attacks ) . One on the stationary bike and one just lying on the couch. Go figure yayahahahaya.
Very good question. The answer is that it promotes the progression of cancer in. Umerous ways (Called The Hallamrks of Cancer). Here is a very good summary that describes all of these mechanisms(as understood today) including the effects of
sources in the low carb world attribute sterile inflammation to the easily oxidized seed oils. Since I eliminated them from my diet my hs-CRP was been low, last one 0.16. Interestingly one source said this is an indirect measure of Oxldl. Btw it requires seed oils for ldl to oxidize.
Yes, it is probably the best test to keep an eye on base line levels of underlying inflammation, one of the two main drivers of cancer progression. Implicated in multiple pathways as summarized in the recent Hallmarks of Caner update linked in prior post. Be sure to request the ultra sensitive CRP, not just the standard screening one for occult infections. If it is the usCRP then your numbers are good. 👍
The majority of evidence suggests that n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids, including linoleic acid (LA), reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease as reflected by current dietary recommendations. However, concern has been expressed that a high intake of dietary n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid contributes to excess chronic inflammation, primarily by prompting the synthesis of proinflammatory eicosanoids derived from arachidonic acid and/or inhibiting the synthesis of anti-inflammatory eicosanoids from eicosapentaenoic and/or docosahexaenoic acids. A systematic review of randomized controlled trials that permitted the assessment of dietary LA on biologic markers of chronic inflammation among healthy noninfant populations was conducted to examine this concern. A search of the English- and non-English-language literature using MEDLINE, the Cochrane Controlled Trials Register, and EMBASE was conducted to identify relevant articles. Fifteen studies (eight parallel and seven crossover) met inclusion criteria. None of the studies reported significant findings for a wide variety of inflammatory markers, including C-reactive protein, fibrinogen, plasminogen activator inhibitor type 1, cytokines, soluble vascular adhesion molecules, or tumor necrosis factor-α. The only significant outcome measures reported for higher LA intakes were greater excretion of prostaglandin E2 and lower excretion of 2,3-dinor-thromboxane B(2) in one study and higher excretion of tetranorprostanedioic acid in another. However, the authors of those studies both observed that these effects were not an indication of increased inflammation. We conclude that virtually no evidence is available from randomized, controlled intervention studies among healthy, noninfant human beings to show that addition of LA to the diet increases the concentration of inflammatory markers.
Inflammation is a two-edged sword. It is a reaction to cancer. On the one hand, it is a necessary response to enlist immune response. On the other hand, it can dampen immune response. Use of anti-inflammatory medicines on their own have proven to be of no use in prostate cancer.
oh man, my husbands is always between 90 -99. Two days ago it was up to 107. George this is a good post, thank you, and appreciate all the info!
While TA has framed the question of blood glucose in terms of intake of nutrients, I don't think the point here is in what foods directly"fuel" or "feed" our cancer cells whatever energy and building blocks they might demand.... as TA says, the body itself is a perfect feeding ground! (Unfortunately, ESPECIALLY the bone environment, which is self-sustaining for the promotion and progression of bone mets.)
Better to think in terms of signaling and pathways. And what higher glucose can do is signal insulin, and repeated insulin spikes then may have effects on genes and pathways that may be associated with faster or slower cancer growth, or more aggressive cancer.
The link I provide below mentions that it is not absolute levels of blood glucose that tell the tale, but the level of actual hyperinsulinemia... which can be high even in men with "normal" blood glucose. (High sugar/starch intake promotes insulin production, which in turn serves to lower sugar levels.)
If one wishes to reduce insulin production and insulin resistance in hopes of impacting rates of cancer progression -- and the linked article explicitly states "findings are mixed so far and no clear conclusions can yet be drawn" -- there are ways to do so. One would be some version of keto, preferably time-restricted, low-cal and low-protein. This can help reduce BMI and reverse the progression of metabolic syndrome, which ADT helps promote.
[On a personal note, my "normal" blood sugar is around 100, but when I've been on keto its been as low as 70. And yes, I am sure that correlated with lower insulin levels, because I was eating too few carbs to ever spike my insulin!]
love your reference. I have been waging war on hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia for long before I developed prostate cancer.
By ancestral keto diet and time restricted eating I was able to drop Metformin and still achieve a normal A1c after well over a decade after being diagnosed diabetic.
When I knew I would be starting ADT I went back on Metformin to keep A1c normal. My last was 5.5, although previously I had achieved 4.8 before I went off Metformin.
Joseph Kraft MD developed the Kraft test which is a glucose tolerance test while simultaneously drawing insulin levels. He demonstrated that abnormally high insulin response was a significant risk factor even with normal glucose responses and predicted the eventual development of pre diabetes and then diabetes.
He called it diabetes-in-situ.
His work was forgotten until Ivor Cummins, citizen scientist popularized it.
thank you Noah, all of you are helping me. I think this morning I have realized I can’t control this horrible disease. I will take a picture of my pathway chart to show you how much I think about this ….
a combination of many books. I will list them when I get home from work. Our daughter helped me, as she is a medical illustrator, graduated from Johns Hopkins years ago. Lots of time and effort went into this. I change it as we go along. This is the second one.
in reply to
Jane Maclends book was my first one. I then went from there with my daughters illustration. I am not an expert, just a woman that wants her husband to live with a combination of methods.
Pod, another book that helped me to refine my chart was Naturopathic Oncology. By Dr McKinney. I also read many links if I can get through them without being totally lost.
That is a very interesting compilation. Though of course such are always incomplete works in progress. Has most of the “usual customers /suspects” plus a few surprises (to me). Such as ivermectin to block mTOR and sulfasalazine to help block NF-Kb inflammation.
I think the New Hallmarks of Cancer makes a better overall roadmap. Even where the roads are not yet built!
Mateo, I have not been on the site for a day or two but will answer any questions. I hope you realize this has come from someone, me, that believes with all of my heart that food is medicine. My husband always treated his body well, but man, does he have some serious genetic cancer risk! We started this pathway chart a year ago with updates from my daughter.
This is impressive. Many times our research and efforts may not make a difference, but sometimes they do. We can't improve our situation unless we try to learn more and combine them with quality doctors who give us SOC treatments at the most appropriate times. Keep finding time for fun and sports as well.
you know George, Jim and I use to have so much fun with football and baseball season, just loved it, although this season I find myself watching the games, staying up late, alone, he’s just too tired to stay up. We use to also ski in the New Year… I just think about all of this sometimes and miss him, my partner in fun. He’s just too tired!
It is better for you, but it will not affect the cancer.
”Does anyone use the continuous glucose monitor to learn what food to eat and not eat, ”
My son has Type 1 diabetes and wears a cgm. Basically anything that is a simple carbohydrate, in the absence of some fat/protein will immediately spike your glucose. So things like bread, juice, soda…all will cause a sudden rise in blood sugar. Of course if you have a working pancreas the spike is muted, but all of those things will immediately spike your sugar.. Its amazing how fast it happens too.
High fat meals also will spike your number but it takes longer and the spike isnt as high. The digestive process takes a while and a few chemical steps before glucose ultimately appears in the blood, sometimes hours later.
Exercise flattens all spikes.
If your pancreas is working spikes are not really spikes.
Complex carbs (e.g. veggies) and protein have the smallest impact on blood sugar.
Lower glucose levels are optimal in general, but as has been noted, exercise is the most important difference maker for this and everything else related to health and longevity.
Your question, ‘do men with average fasting blood glucose levels below 80 live longer than guys above 90’ is fair as far as it goes, but if one is not getting plenty of exercise, considerations of fasting glucose is putting the cart before the horse.
As we age, living longer in and of itself becomes pointless as delaying decrepitude becomes the primary consideration.
Doctor told me I was type 2 diabetic. I wore a CGM for 2 years. Found it inaccurate. I refused metformin but did diet control, lowering carbs and sugar. Also cut daily prednisone from 10mg to 5 mg. It took some time but doctor no longer is concerned about diabetes. Recently I had a respiratory infection for which I took additional 20mg daily of prednisone. It helped but spiked my glucose up. Now I have returned to about 100 average level. None of this seemed to affect any tests or scans other than glucose level.
Cancer cells are known to use "Warburg Effect" to utilise glucose and fuel growth. Going by this principle, it might be wise to keep blood glucose levels within physiological limits. I guess by doing so, we may deny cancers cells the advantage of freely available blood glucose perduring under diabetic conditions/intake of high GI foods.
For my father, we are avoiding foods with a high Glycemic Index (GI) like sugary foods/drinks and white rice, as he was already diabetic before he was diagnosed with cancer. Thus, hoping to minimise the advantage the cancer has via Warburg Effect by keeping his glucose levels within physiological limits.
Also do not go by my words blindly and take out time to do your own research and share.
good insigths Sudi, I dont know why anyone eats rice, when things like oatmeal, Teff and buckwheat are available. These taste better and have better GI scores I think.
smarty, I am thinking it’s the fruit Jim eats. We don’t eat too much refined sugar products, hardly any. Every day I put a frozen banana frozen blueberries and 1/2 an avocado in his smoothie, as he has trouble gaining weight. He is so thin!
I wish, Pickle…. Not too much dairy for us any more.
just a different look at bg things. I admire the posts that speak of holding a 99 or less bg…. And or those that can speak of those low 5s A1C. Once you sort it out and get into a rhythm, it’s not “ all that “ .
Thank you brother … weekend’s almost here … yeehawwww yayahahahaya.
did you find a significant drop with 10 or 20 minutes of moderate exercise (like stationary bike) following your meals? Was it similar to 30 minutes? How aggressive was your exercise- mild, moderate or high intensity for 30 minutes?
Jane has always recommended doing conventional treatment along with "alternative" treatment, as far as I've read (not so, though, with individual posters on her forums).
smartie, I know how you feel about Jane, I appreciate this! do you remember saying to you, I read her book twice. That being said I agree with you. I want to find a combination, the best of both worlds, but has proven difficult. Integrating our treatments seems to make sense to me. Not talking crazy s… but common sense. No Doc will give it a chance. Surprising to me how little Docs know about nutrition, especially when they tout, you can get all of what you need in your food…. What gives there!
Yes, it is interesting the way some docs seem to think we can get all we need from food.....which is so untrue. as a nutritionist, I agree with so many on this forum that integrating modalities is very helpful. I have thought for years that we each have to do what is best for us. which includes how we think, as well as our treatments.......
Thanks to everyone who helps with their advice.🌹🦚
Smarty, you did not offend me at all. I have taken away from all of this that a good combination of drugs nutrition exercise chemo fasting can only benefit us all. It’s a personal comfort zone., none of us can be forced to do something we are not ready for.. I hope you understand.
not quite sure I would word it like that. Smarty have a nice night and thank you for your many helpful links!
I believe jim works as many muscle groups as he can with weight resistance, he does some cardio and infra red Sauna 4 times per week, with hopes of overcoming some of the effects of the drugs and to keep his blood levels pretty normal. As far as building muscle, I don’t think so.
thanks for your link to a meta analysis of inflammation and n6 oils like linoleic. I did some research. Brad Marshall of Fire in a bottle website, did a video refuting this. Among other things he mentioned is that serum levels of linoleic acid have only a 0.2 per cent correlation with intake, suggesting serum levels are inversely correlated with consumption. He goes into detail as to the alleles of the converting enzyme.
Also Zero acre farms website, has excellent posts on linoleic acid and obesity and cardiac disease.
On a personal note, sunburn is an inflammatory reaction and I who is fair skinned ex sun avoider have been sunbathing since I changed my diet in 2013 without any sunburn and even tan. Others have noted this as well.
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