pc spes

[elvismlv123]

has anyone tried pcspes ...the new one sold by vincent? or pomi x10?

[elvismlv123]

There is a new one thats clean...did you know it?Its the same herbal purported the old one minus the other Rx stuff. BTW I have no problem with the other stuff. The NCI is full of you know what. They were the ones who said that chemo doesnt help PCa.

[AlmostnoHope in reply to elvismlv123]

Yes. Talk to Vincent there at pcspes.net. He saved my life and I owe my success in this battle to him.

[cbc-ppml]

A Quackwatch summary of the historical background for PC-Spes:

quackwatch.org/cancer/repor...

[elvismlv123 in reply to cbc-ppml]

Yes thats the story ....its not what it says but what it omits. They dont say that many mens lives were saved for many years and the destruction of this drug was a severe blow to many who benefitted from it...not like the drugs today that the FDA approves that do nothing and kill you right off. Did anyone test the drug?It had trace amts of DES.Patients take DES today to lower PSA.It was banned to women not men. Thanks for the info.

[cbc-ppml in reply to elvismlv123]

This NIH PDQ ("physician data query") document, last revised four years ago, discusses everything that is actually known or not known about PC-SPES:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6...

Quoting from the PDQ - the adulterants found in the mix were DES and other substances:

"Exactly how PC-SPES works in the body is still unknown. The presence of adulterants and varying amounts of the active agents in each lot of PC-SPES complicates the interpretation of any results from studies that might lead to an explanation of its mechanisms of action. More studies of the individual components of the mixture and testing of a standard formulation that is free of adulterants are needed before any conclusions can be reached about the level of cytotoxicity, antineoplasticity, or estrogenicity of PC-SPES."

[cbc-ppml in reply to elvismlv123]

There is no absolutely no well-developed evidence that "many mens lives were saved for many years" by PC-SPES. As for your statement "the drugs today that the FDA approves... do nothing and kill you right off": FDA-approved drugs are tested by scientifically conducted clinical trials to determine that they have beneficial effects with minimal or acceptable unwanted side effects. I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the clinicaltrials.gov and pubmed.gov websites. Wikipedia has an extensive article about clinical trials: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clini...

[elvismlv123 in reply to cbc-ppml]

I cant see why there would be...its an interesting finding though. However as I cant give a number many men were given a death sentence as no treatment was afforded them and ADT was considered quackery.My first book on PCa written by a doctor in AZ touted a cure for PCa...it was PCSPES. I had no idea what it was then I found out it was banned. it was 2003.

[MateoBeach in reply to cbc-ppml]

Thanks for posting that link. Unfortunately, some with petrified opinions cannot digest the facts. Locked into their biases and declared with their own sense of certainty.

[Graham49]

This is the paper that reports the problems with PC SPES.

Prospective, Multicenter, Randomized Phase II Trial of the Herbal Supplement, PC-SPES, and Diethylstilbestrol in Patients With Androgen-Independent Prostate Cancer

William K. Oh , Philip W. Kantoff , Vivian Weinberg , Graham Jones , Brian I. Rini , Mika K. Derynck...

ABSTRACT

Purpose

To evaluate the herbal combination, PC-SPES, and diethylstilbestrol (DES) in patients with androgen independent prostate cancer (AIPC).

Patients and Methods

A randomized phase II study was conducted with cross-over design. Patients were randomly assigned to receive either three PC-SPES capsules orally three times a day or DES 3 mg orally once a day. Prophylactic warfarin was administered. At clinical or prostate-specific antigen progression, patients received the other therapy. The study closed prematurely after PC-SPES was withdrawn from the market. Chemical analyses were performed on multiple lots of PC-SPES.

Results

Ninety patients were enrolled, of whom 85 were assessable for response. Prostate-specific antigen declines ≥ 50% were noted in 40% (95% CI, 25% to 56%) with PC-SPES, and 24% (95% CI, 12% to 39%) with DES. Median response duration was not reached with PC-SPES, and was 3.8 months with DES. Median time to progression for randomly assigned patients was 5.5 months for PC-SPES and 2.9 months for DES. Common toxicities included mild fatigue, gynecomastia, and mastodynia. Five thromboembolic events occurred (one PC-SPES, four DES). Responses in the cross-over phase were inconclusive. Four lots of PC-SPES had measurable quantities of DES, ranging from 0.01% to 3.1% of the dose used in the DES arm. Ethinyl estradiol was also detected in PC-SPES lots.

Conclusion

PC-SPES and DES demonstrate activity in AIPC and are well tolerated. However, the synthetic estrogens, DES and ethinyl estradiol, were detected in various lots of PC-SPES, including those used in this trial. Clinical trials that utilize herbal therapies must account for issues of purity and consistency.

[elvismlv123 in reply to Graham49]

thank you for finding the paper

[elvismlv123 in reply to Graham49]

I never used it but I know some who have with great results. I took Prostasol which worked great too.

[Graham49 in reply to elvismlv123]

See pfeifer-protocol.com for info on Prostasol.

[AlmostnoHope in reply to elvismlv123]

It's the DES that makes it work. You just have to keep it low dose which Prostasol cannot keep consistent. I use the pcspes.net PCSPES along with Casodex off and on and it has stabilized my PSA. DES is available under the name Honvan through online pharmacies. It was the very first hormone used to treat Prostate Cancer but was taken off the market due to women using the drug to prevent miscarriages so the guys got screwed.

[jimnbunny]

I have about 20 bottles of the old stuff if anyone wants to try it. PM me.

[Graham49 in reply to jimnbunny]

I presume you tried it. Did it have any effect on your PSA?

[Graham49]

This is an abstract of the in vitro paper on PC SPES II.

[Effect of compound Chinese traditional medicine PC-SPES II in inhibiting proliferation of human prostate cancer cell LNCaP and on expressions of AR and PSA].

Zhang BY, Li YF, Lai Y, Li YS, Chen ZJ

Zhongguo Zhong yao za zhi = Zhongguo Zhongyao Zazhi = China Journal of Chinese Materia Medica, 01 Mar 2015, 40(5):950-956Language:chi

PMID: 26087562

Abstract

To investigate the effect of compound Chinese traditional medicine PC-SPES II I in inhibiting proliferation of human prostate cancer cell LNCaP based on the androgen receptor (AR) signaling pathway. The effect of PC-SPES II on LNCaP cell proliferation was detected by MTT assay. According to the findings, at the mass concentration of 180-1 440 mg x L(-1), PC-SPES II significantly inhibited the proliferation of LNCaP cells; the IC50 of PC-SPES II at 24 h and 48 h were 311.48, 199.01 mg x L(-1), respectively. The flow Cytometry detection showed 240 mg x L(-1) PC-SPES II arrested cells in G2/M phase, and an obvious apoptotic peak appeared before G0/G1 peak and rose over time. Meanwhile, Hoechst 33258 staining revealed apoptotic cellular morphology. Annexin V-FITC/PI staining manifested an increase in apoptotic cell ratio at the PC-SPES II concentration of 480 mg x L(-1) in a dose dependent manner. The prostate specific antigen (PSA) secretion of LNCaP cells was tested by PSA ELISA kit. Besides, compared with 25 mg x L(-1) Bic, 480 mg x L(-1) PC-SPES II significantly reduced the cell secretion of PSA. The AR and PSA mRNA and protein expressions were detected by qRT-PCR and Western blot. According to the results, after the induction of LNCaP cells with synthetic androgen 25 μg x L(-1) R1881, 240-480 mg x L(-1) PC-SPES II notably down-regulated the AR and PSA mRNA and protein expressions and inhibited the translocation of AR from cytoplasm to nucleus. In summary, PC-SPES II significantly can inhibit the in vitro proliferation of LNCaP cells and arrest cell cycle arrest in G2/M phase. Its mechanism may be associated with the down-regulation of the AR and PSA expressions and the inhibition of AR nuclear translocation.

[AlmostnoHope in reply to Graham49]

Yes. Great Article.

[AlmostnoHope]

Yes Vincent with his extensive knowledge it's working great for me. Call him first before ordering as he will walk you through everything. He's a Godsend.

[CRPCMan]

Vincent at pcspes.net has saved my life. His guidance and knowledge is priceless. He is a true gift to us. He truly cares.