only 10% of the patients taking curcumin while off ADT for 6 months had PSA progression compared to 30% of patients taking placebo.
"The proportion of patients with PSA progression during the active curcumin treatment period (6 months) was significantly lower in the curcumin group than the placebo group (10.3% vs 30.2%, P = 0.0259)."
bless the turmeric root....i've been off it for two days as the dukarol gave me a little bit of a messy GI...better now so i'll be gleefully stirring it into my morning coffee tomorrow...my recipe....i tsp turmeric powder...the high quality stuff...a pinch of cardamom and cinnamon with a dollop of honey and cream..noramally i'm a straight up brewlover but this combo is to die for good. also important is that little shake of pepper before ingestion..i love pepper so no big deal tucking a little grind between my cheek and gum. I know... don't hype snake oil unless its quadruply proven blindly....its harmless otherwise up to 5gms a day so where's the risk of a tsp's possible road to cure.
Jbooml,
Are you in Canada? I am trying to arrange my schedule to get there and take Dukarol -- I saw where it helped slow prostate cancer. It is not available in U.S.
Yes I do. I bought mine at a local pharmacy for $C19....the lovely lady at the till put it through on the in-house pharmacare plan...it pays to go gray. The mysterious part about the vaccine at this stage is that its indicated to prolonge survival only for those happening to take it after diagnosis. Because trials haven’t been conducted with any PC risk associated healthy group in determining preventive outcomes, profalaxis remains an open question. As an aside..I had some gastric issues a week into second dosing which made me wonder if I wasn’t a carrier of a few unsavory gut denizens who got or are getting the ‘bums rush’...no worry there, just another unforeseen ‘probiotic’ cleanup.
"the in-house pharmacare plan...it pays to go gray"
Does that mean that you did not use insurance -- or have to show id to prove you are Canadian?
I was thinking of going to either Vancouver or Toronto -- I would have to stay a week til I can take the second dose. -- I was told it has to be refrigerated.
As I said it was an act of simple charity to get the drug on the cheap...that I can only attribute to my advancing years?
for meds in Canada Its pay as you go if you’re not covered by a drug insurance co... unless you’re a cancer patient where you get free dispensing at the hospitals if it’s a standard of care...That refrigerating bit is a bit overstated...the vaccine is stable for two weeks at room temp....still, I understand the concern
So if I understand -- I can pay full price (which is not a problem) and I do not have to show Canadian identification or have a prescription -- And, it should be ok for plane trip back without refrig? I wonder if it will pass customs at the airport?
It doesn’t require an Rx in Canada....and in my case I didn’t have to ID myself or fill out any information except to say I wanted it for travel this fall...which is true...we’re going to India. I would just get it at a shoppers drug mart. Too bad you can’t just drive across a border to buy it...I can’t imagine customs wanting to obstruct a health product....being somewhat anti authoritarian I’d tell ‘me to shove it if they gave me trouble....live free or die trying.
This was a trial to see if curcumin could extend the time off treatment among men using intermittent ADT. What the results actually say is: "There was no significant difference in the curve of off-treatment duration between the two groups (P = 0.4816)" So while PSA didn't go up as much in the curcumin group, it failed to translate into a longer time off treatment.
But isn’t that a positive TA? With minimal risk ? Or would you still recommend against it during IADT due to insufficient evidence.
let me put this in other terms... 6 months of Curcumin did NOT:
- did NOT extend time before PSA progressed to the point that another cycle of ADT had to be administered. (the primary objective of the study), In fact, that point was reached two months SOONER in men taking curcumin, although on this very small sample of 39 Korean men taking curcumin and 43 Korean men taking placebo the difference was not statistically significant.
- did NOT change testosterone levels
- did NOT change the rate of PSA progression
- did NOT change QOL
However, in 35/39 men taking curcumin (and 30/43 taking placebo), PSA did not progress during the first 6 months after they ended their first cycle of ADT (while they took the drug or placebo). But their PSA more than caught up in the following 10 months.
So, curcumin doesn't seem to extend the testosterone-blocking effect of ADT. It may be suppressing the amount of PSA that is detected from the cancer, but it does not seem to delay progression of the cancer. So it may be affecting the use of PSA as a biomarker of progression. We have to be careful about treating PSA without treating the cancer. This PSA-masking effect deserves further study.
The important question is, do any of these OTC supplements give any overall survival benefit?
Of what may be of greater importance, is there evidence at all if any FDA approved prescription medications, drugs, infusion, injections, give any overall survival edge beyond extremely modest if any outcomes.
If so, I am not suggesting there are none, however those are the studies that I would find of interest. More so than short time progression studies that do not add an iota to how long I may live.
In fact I made even add, any studies that suggest that the large numbers of various available intrusive local or systemic therapies may add to overall survival.
I am well aware and have intensively followed both the Scandinavian study commencing in the 1990’s and still ongoing,,,suggestion a 2 plus years of additional life for men submitting to RP verses doing nothing,,,which is a bit unclear in result reports,,,but even this suggests this advantage only applies to those under 65 years of age when diagnosed.
The USA Veterans PIVOT study results to day, closely track the Scandinavian study below.
Scandinavian. A google search will turn up many references to each study.
bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k52...
PIVOT. Possibly the most negative review of study.
renalandurologynews.com/pro...
Yes am aware, tough questions, few honest answers.
R
Early use of docetaxel and abiraterone have been proven to increase survival by about a year and a half.
I completely agree that this is what studies have suggested. I have no reason to doubt them. On my own case however, I had 6 sessions of Taxotere, 16 months of Xtandi monotherapy. After initial very small decrease in PSA after 6 sessions of Taxotere to a nadir of 3.0 while still on Xtandi, psa rose to 5 and then 9. Dropped Extandi, went to 1/2 normal dose of Lupron, T dropped from almost 900 to about 10 immediately. Have now had 2 injections of Lupron, PSa is now at 15 in 2 successive rises, indicating immediate failure. Suggesting that Zytiga would offer me no help. Have had 3rd Lupron injection, no PSa follow up yet.
Have skeletal and lymph mets. First 12 or 13 years zero therapy of any kind. Interesting disease and journey.
Now considering my options of which there are several that appear possibly helpful.
Well..on the other hand they don’t detail co ingestion with pepperin which increases circs serum absorption 2000X...so yes the controls aren’t perfect so we may be seeing only the tip of the therapeutic iceberg. We do see differences in a poorly engineered optimized trial. who knows maybe that was the intention of the administrators.
You would have to read the full text to see if the curcumin included piperine.
"However, PSA elevation was suppressed with curcumin intake during the curcumin administration period. Curcumin at this dose was well tolerated and safe."
Do you have a brand you endorse...currently taking Natures Nutrition Tumeric Curcumin 1950 mg with 15 mg of bioperine...
Thanks Nalakrats...My understanding was bioperene--black pepper enhanced absorption...Is that not so??
i grow organic turmeric, let the bulbs dry, then powder it up. one heaping tbs. in morning smoothie, with fresh aloe vera gel, scooped from the stalks sold in some supermarkets and Whole Foods for sure. not expensive. and yes, black pepper is suggested everywhere, to activate and boost the curcuminoids.
The best turmeric i have found is to make your own:
There is a Facebook site for the Turmeric users group
Turmeric Golden Paste recipe
Ingredients:
1/2 cup (125 mls/60gms) organic turmeric powder
1 cup distilled water (250 mls) PLUS 1 cup distilled water in reserve, if needed
1/3 cup (70 mls) Raw/Cold Pressed/Unrefined Coconut/Flaxseed-Linseed Oil, Organic Virgin/Extra Virgin Olive Oil
2-3 teaspoons freshly ground black pepper
Yes, bioperine is the “heat” in black pepper and helps absorption of various nutrients. In the old days we would add pepper to turmeric and eat with fat for better absorption, the supplements today add the Bioperiene.
The trial is set for those off ADT, why is that? Is there a potential problem while dosing on ADT? I have been taking Turmeric with Meriva from Source Naturals for many years.
jal
I just enjoy some delicious, complexly-spiced Indian and similar Asian foods as a part of my overall regular diet. Yum.
Charles
many doctors prefer and prescribe intermittent ADT -- 6 or so months on ADT then stop ADT entirely and go on an ADT vacation until PSA starts rising to a certain point -- maybe 5 or 10 then restart IADT --
So to see what the effects were of taking curcumin -- the trial gave curcumin to patients in the 6 month off ADT cycle.
I'll still stick to my chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops). Only topping I would use is another scoop.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/12/2019 2:30 PM EST
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