Before you read the following ..... please note that I am only sharing this content because I thought it was 'interesting' albeit controversial....
"Many people insist the keto diet has helped them successfully lose weight. While I don’t doubt this, an important question must be asked—is this due to the keto diet or a change in diet? The largest contributors of calories in the United States are refined grains, added fats, meats and added sugars. [14] Most diets, including keto, limit or eliminate at least one of these factors resulting in some degree of weight loss.
People often assume they will quickly lose significant fat from adopting the keto diet, but research does not always support this. In one highly controlled study, individuals were given two diets containing the same amount of calories—a low-fat diet followed by a low-carb one (the keto diet). In this study:
Subjects lost a little less than a pound on the low-fat, and three and a half pounds on the keto diet.
However, researchers found body fat loss actually slowed by more than 50% on the keto diet compared to the low-fat diet.
Instead, weight lost on the keto diet was due to water and muscle loss! [10] "
[10] Hall KD, Chen KY, Guo J, et al. Energy expenditure and body composition changes after an isocaloric ketogenic diet in overweight and obese men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2016;104(2):324-33.
[14] Rehkamp S. A Look at Calorie Sources in the American Diet. USDA Economic Research Service. 2016.
HI Bridge Girl.... my thoughts.... if I say what I think then I may start a LCHF v the rest of the forum war..... hmmm..... but if I don't then I may also start a LCHF v the rest of the forum war.... or.... I might get the benefit of being considered "neutral"...... please?
I like that idea ...... I can't recal having been considered neutral in a debate before! <boy, am I laughing now>
So you prefer to post something you think may be contentious without giving your own view? That sounds like provocation for the sake of it.
This is a weight loss forum and most of us are happy to talk about our approach and how effective we're finding it. What about you? What's your approach to weight loss?
OK, since you put it like that, I cannot refuse....
I am vegan and grow as much of my own fruit and veg as I can in order to eliminate my exposure to pesticides.
I do not eat any highly processed food, artificial ingredients eg chemical manufactured sugar substitutes, foods that list ingredients that I consider non-beneficial or I am unfamiliar with, and anything that originates from an another living being.
I do eat quite large amounts of fruit and veg, pulses (legumes, lentils, dried soya), whole grains (mostly oats and corn not wheat).
If I want bread I bake my own from buckwheat or spelt flour and include a variety of grains. I spend at least 90 mins in the kitchen every day cooking and use a lot of herbs within my dishes.
I also have a small salad before my main meals, dressed with white balsamic vinegar and nutritional yeast flakes.
I log everything (every ingredient is weighed in grams) and calculate my calories and macros on a spreadsheet that I created.
I also follow TRE (time restricted eating) and only eat within an 8 hours window in the day. Outside of these hours I just drink filtered water.
At the moment I am losing weight with the following targets.
Calories 1300 per day: 60% from carbs, 25% from protein and 15% from fat.
If I'm honest, I'm not sure if it's for me, but, I did enjoy never being hungry, and, not really wanting to eat. Now that I have introduced a few healthy carbs, I feel less tired...basically, now that I am no longer working shifts, I am trying to find what works best for me, it's trial and error atm.
I think Sally is being careful not to offend...that's how I read it anyway.
I too feel a little awkward, because so many fab members on here have lost serious amounts of fat and weight, following a healthy LCHF plan, that it's not for me, to be negative at all, about that way of losing weight.
I haven't lost much so far, so it would not be right for me to question something that works so well for others; I'm just not sure that it is very sustainable for me personally. There are some healthy carbs that I enjoy, and if I give into temptation, I easily gain three pounds. I do however LOVE, not being hungry, and, being able to fast...which I think, is responsible for clothes fitting better, and, NSV's ..So, I just need to find the right balance for me.
Yes, I'm not discounting LCHF, but being very overweight I would have expected a bit better weight loss to start with.
One night though, J had a bad night, and ate 4 cream crackers..I put on 3 pounds...that's when I became a little sceptical, because I can not live life, never eating carbs.
I do need to eat a lit less of them though, and, for life
I haven't discounted Low Carb at all...I am still trying to eat LC, but I have discounted High Fat, in favour of healthy fats, like the ones in lean meat.
Unfortunately for me, I can not eat lots of high fats, such as butter, heavy cream, gorgeously creamy strong wonderful cheeses, because, I don't lose weight very well, when I eat this way......High Fat, is not really for me at the moment (once I start eating cheese, I find it hard to limit the quantity).
I do think we'll need to rename it as low/healthy carb, healthy fat which is what it is and what you seem to be doing. There's no requirement for dairy products if they don't suit you: it's just that many of us enjoy them. You can get your healthy fats from oily fish, avocado, nuts and seeds, meat with the fat and skin on, olive oil and coconut oil for cooking (if you avoid butter), coconut cream - anything that can be found in nature and is minimally processed.
The whole thing is that we learn to eat to our own personal appetite on low carb. If your body says no thanks to the cheese, I’m burning my butt instead thanks, that’s right for you. If your body says I am so hungry on a ‘healthy fats’ diet I am going to die/stab someone/dive into a bath of wotsits, then that’s your body saying actually I need the cheese for now. When you are in the swing of low carb, the ‘i can’t stop eating cheese/cream’ or ‘i eat too much of carbs tends to go away. Your body says that was really nice, but I’ll have the rest tomorrow. It does take time to get to that point, it’s more than a few weeks. You are learning to listen to your satiety cues from your metabolic hormones and that can take a few months.
Note on the healthy fats- we all know and agree there are unhealthy fats like hydrogenated mono whatever, but in my view cream, cheese, beef fat etc are not unhealthy if we are not eating more than we need. If we are eating more than we need, we store them as fat and that’s unhealthy, but not the actual food.
You're too funny SFG...I had a visual of someone diving into a bath of wotsits! lol alright I suppose, as long as they're not ingested during the jump! 🤣
I totally agree, that eating too much of some of the fats, is the unhealthy part, given that, excess fat does cause weight gain.
My appetite really reduced, to the point of, not being bothered about eating at all....so, if I were single, I think it would have really worked for me....BUT, my hubby likes to cook...and because it was 'allowed' we were having some delicious creamy, buttery side veggie dishes (only, not so 'side') and I think that is where I was falling short...I'm learning every day, and, trying not to beat myself up, too much.
Thank you for your insight...hopefully one day, I can join you in the elite Maintainer's Club x
Agree that part of the learning is how to cope with social situations & family dynamics. Learning all the time here.
Elite? Moi? More like relieved. I am down as a maintainer but I am actually still losing. Not a lot, not fast, but a bit. Enough to make me think I may still get to my ‘young woman’ weight - I don’t have to, but it would be super excited if I did. As for your journey - you’ll be quite different this time next year...
Ha. Not actually quite at my 21 year old body quite yet. My OH has always been supportive & flattering even when I was at my fattest. So I can’t believe anything he says... he has been a bit spurred to action himself though by my example or not wanting to get left behind, eating few carbs & has lost quite a bit of weight himself...
PS can I also say that my weight fluctuates up to 8lbs over a month. When I first noticed this, I resolved to starve myself because I was so appalled. Not surprisingly this resolve lasted about 3 hours... I found it helpful to log my weight on an app that then showed my weight on a graph - there is no smooth line downwards, it’s very very jaggedly (but the trajectory is down).
you have solved your own quandary; eat less carbs than you are eating now and think how long it took you to out the weight on, now don't expect to lose it any quicker than you put it on. All eating plans designed to help a person find and maintain a healthy body(that would exclude sensationalism or pecuniary gain as the driving factors) will take a holistic approach, so feeling fitter, building strength to support your lifestyle, mental health and so forth. It is a bit of a mind bender that it will take quite some time to shift the weight and feel better. Stick with it, it is good to ask questions and keep looking for what suits you best, but the old adage 'baby.......bath water' springs to mind. Wishing you a good week ahead
When you put on 3lbs from eating a few cream crackers you have not put on 3lbs of fat. This I promise. You are merely carrying additional water in your liver. This does not matter for true weight loss over time. Low carb may not be right for you anyway, but I wanted to encourage you to see the longer picture. X
Thank you...I am taking everything into account...currently, I am trying to stay under 50g of carbs a day; yesterday was easy, but not so much today...baby steps x
What eating plan have you decided on. S-M? You've done lots of exploring and asking for information and tips on this and other forums. Where has that taken you? How will you be tackling your weight loss?
Currently, I think that during the 3 and a bit weeks of trying LCHF, I was consuming too much fat (in the way of, tasty gourmet-type dinners, cheese, and, full fat shop-bought mayo). Although I didn't lose much on the scales, I did manage to change my shape a little though, which was a positive..and I fasted between meals, which helped me to feel a bit slimmer. I do like eating that way, but with a few more carbs added into the mix; so currently, I am watching my carbs, as well as saturated fats, to see if I can manage to lose weight, and feel healthy...I am working on finding my balance.
I have ordered the Fast800 book, as well as the recipe book, and I really want to try that soon, as well as getting back into fasting....so, I am still a work in progress! lol
Thank you for asking x And, if I ever get within a couple of stone near your wonderful weight, it will be time for a virtual party 🥳😊
I’m not the best to comment on fasting. I found that, once I was settled on a lchf way of eating, I wasn’t hungry in the morning so there didn’t seem much point in eating. I never set out to fast so I don’t know how that works
I have just checked the source data and it was an 8 week trial (4 weeks on each of 2 diets). The initial water loss for me ususally only occurs in the first week but you may know differently!
I wouldn't really know my percentage of fat or water loss in any week and we'll all be different but I've always understood it to be common knowledge with every diet there's initially water loss x
LOL ! Love it ! I don't think I was ever lucky enough to lose 6lb in my first week, I think my personal best was 3lb and I didn't give a hoot either! x
Disclaimer. Low carb had changed my life. I feel amazingly well as full of energy on it, I am slim now, and I am no longer ruled by my appetite. Please read the following remarks in that light.
I don’t think a study where people know they are watched & checked on is a good assessment of the effectiveness of a way of eating. While we are in a programme, we eat well. When we aren’t being watched or weighed anymore, what happens then? Do we fall back into the arms of doughnuts and put the weight back on? I have absolutely no evidence either way on low fat or low carb. I just know from my own experience that I feel I can eat low carb forever and every day I eat low carb, I feel less like eating toast. I have also heard stories of people who participate in a well known diet club that promotes low fat, who put weight back on as soon as they stop their subscription.
Yes people on a keto diet will lose more water, because they are using up their glycogen store faster, than on a low fat diet, and each glycogen molecule are stored with four water molecules. It does not mean it’s a bad diet, it’s just the physiology of the body. Your body is designed to use up glycogen before fat stores.
Low carb diets work in a different way to low fat diets. The former reduces your insulin levels so that your body can hear the full-up hormone leptin saying don’t eat any more. This might take several months to take effect. It’s not about fewer calories from day one, it’s about getting an appetite commensurate with the size of your bottom and tum.
Adding to the research base is helpful, but it's such a complex matter as individual weight-loss strategies are so, well, individual.
I didn't like the idea of going 'full-keto', keeping my Carb intake low (around 50g/day), but not that low (<20g/day).
Against the law carb advice, i did calorie count for several months (1,200-1,400/day) but as I was eating some healthy fats and I'd cut my sugar very aggressively (<5g/100g), my hunger was nicely under control and my body didn't appear to go into starvation shock, I guess because despite the low calorie intake I didn't feel I was starving.
It may not seem much of a daily loss to lose 4 ounces/120 grams per day, but when that happens day in day out over a year, the difference mounts up.
That I've lost fat is undeniable. 5 clothing sizes is not down to muscle and water loss (and I've been running 30-minutes/day instead of barely moving, so I guess I still have muscles).
I did cover this sort of article in one of my "LCHF myths" posts, but I'll give it another shot, because it pops up all over the internet.
1) There is no such thing as a "keto diet".
Arguments poking fun at keto diets are setting up a strawman. "Keto" is a short phase that precedes an LCHF eating routine (which you maintain for the rest of your life). The aim is simply to force your body into a fat-burning state in the shortest possible timeframe. True, some people stick with it for long periods, but it's not necessary and it's not much fun. Those people are in a definite minority.
I'll also add that it's almost impossible to do LCHF/keto vegan; as the poster acknowledges, it's hard to meet either macro- or micronutrient targets. The fundamental reason is that vegan diets are on the extreme limit of human tolerance. I know one person who gets it right - she eats a lot of coconut oil and palm oil, eats vast amounts of actual vegetables, and avoids processed grains and processed oils. She is healthy and slim. Her diet isn't strict "low carb", but clearly, it doesn't need to be.
2) "Weight loss" is a foolish metric by which to gauge eating plans.
You can lose weight by many different methods. You can do a water fast. You can go on a Cabbage Diet. You can sign up for many of the various diet clubs that will take your money and give you a list of nonsensical rules to follow. None of these will keep you healthy and slim for life.
Experiments which measure the process of "weight loss" usually terminate the experiment before a stable weight has been achieved, with stable eating habits (which can take up to two years). Most of them just don't have sufficient funding. Some of them deliberately do this so that they get the result they want. In both cases, the whole thing is a waste of (public) money.
The blogger's two-week "experiment" is less than worthless. She is observing an adaptation period, which is a bit like measuring your petrol consumption going uphill with one foot on the accelerator and one foot on the brake.
The bottom line is that if you eat a healthy diet your body will discard bodyfat until it's carrying a sensible amount of it. If this doesn't happen, it's usually (80% of the time) because your diet isn't healthy. LCHF works because it's healthy, and most people who try it instinctively feel that this is the case.
3) Keto-fuelled bodies are still using glucose.
Two molecules of fat (triglycerides) deliver six fatty acids and one glucose molecule (at the end of a fairly short chain of reactions). Even if you're going ultra-low-carb, you still have plenty of glucose available which can be either used directly by those subsystems that need it, or stored as glycogen. Low-carb bodies have their glycogen reserves hovering around the 50% mark.
4) Low-carb weight loss is mostly fat.
It's a relentless assertion of the anti-healthy-eating brigade that low-carb weight loss is mostly water. If that were true then all low-carb adherents would still be fat; their water loss would stabilize at a level compatible with life, and that'd be the end of the matter.
My bodyfat is presently hovering around 10-11%. Clearly, my diet has something to do with that. I am not permanently dehydrated.
5) Low-carb does not make you feel ill and weak.
"The International Society of Sports Nutrition contests that this form of dieting can impair both low and high intensity workouts." Personally, I've not found this to be the case. I've found that my sports endurance is much improved. I'm carrying about the same amount of muscle mass as I did when I was 20.
Many cyclists and ultramarathoners are leaping onto the low-carb bandwagon because they can keep going forever when fat-fuelled. For power sports, it's probably not ideal; Dr Peter Attia (who has done all sorts of experiments on himself) found that his top-end power output was slightly reduced.
"In non-athletes like myself, ketosis has been directly related to fatigue during exercise."
This is just rubbish. You will lose some athletic performance during keto adaptation, but in the long term, the fact that you're running on bodyfat means that fatigue is a distant mirage on the horizon.
6) Low-carb is not going to kill you.
This one drives me mad, because there is no epidemic of low-carb adherents dropping dead from heart disease, cancer etc. If there were, you can be sure that people like the BHF and AHA would be shouting "see, see, we told you so!" But they're not. Because there isn't. It's well-documented that people eating low-carb diets (ie., healthy diets) have normal blood lipids, for whatever that's worth. TC tends to rise slightly, triglycerides usually fall, HDL rises, and LDL theoretically will rise (but usually doesn't, much) because your body is using more fat-based energy.
"Because of this, many studies show the keto diet directly increases LDL (bad) cholesterol and triglyceride levels in individuals—however, opposing evidence does exist. "
... such as her own graphs at the end of the blog post (although they're really not wide enough to draw trendlines onto - given the level of noise, they're most likely flat). And, uh, this:
"In one study, overweight subjects placed on a low carb, vegan diet lost an average of 8-9 pounds and noticed improved LDL and total cholesterol"
Plus a whole bunch of studies she doesn't want to look at because they'll break her narrative.
Incidentally, the blogger's TG:HDL ratio starts off (on her uber-healthy vegan diet) at around 1.8-1.9, ie., not too bad, but a long way from ideal according to conventional wisdom. Fortunately for her, cholesterol markers don't really say much about your disease risk.
And because I like poking fun at nutritionists, I'll add that this one gets her physiology and physics wrong:
"Carbs, however, are most easily and efficiently converted to ATP, making it our body’s preferred energy source of the three. "
"Fat is preferred over protein as it provides much more energy on a per gram basis."
Our bodies don't "prefer carbs" as such. Carbs and fats have different reaction pathways optimized for different things. Crudely speaking carbs provide bursty power; fats provide long-term, reliable energy. Different organs prefer different fuels: your heart, for example, will burn fatty acids in preference to anything else. We tend to seek out carbs because they're an ideal substrate for creating bodyfat, and storing a lot of bodyfat is (up to a point) a sensible survival strategy.
Efficiency doesn't really come into it. You might say that fats are a better fuel because mole-for-mole they consume a greater amount of oxygen to "burn" them and yield a higher energy output, but this too is rather irrelevant. Food-to-muscle efficiency is in the ballpark of 20%, regardless of fuel source.
Fat is preferred over protein simply because we have a more elegant set of machinery for converting fats to other useful things. Our protein pathways are optimized mainly for recycling cellular detritus ("autophagy"), and can't deliver full metabolic power. Carnivores, in contrast, have a very efficient protein pathway, a pretty good fat pathway, and a degraded carb pathway. The only animals with excellent carb-based metabolism are herbivores, particularly ruminants. Humans are neither.
I was fairly seriously into bodybuilding in my teens and 20s (I got a bit obsessed with it because I was a malnourished child and looked like a walking skeleton in my mid-teens). I quickly realised I don't have the genetic basis for it (I'm very light-boned) and lost interest after a few years.
But yeah, my bodyfat is in the range where you can point out specific muscles like an anatomy chart. I never intended to do this. It just sort of happened by itself.
Started LCHF in February. Weighed food and counted macros to start as I had no idea how much of anything I was eating. Never went keto to start...averaged 50-100g carbs. Cut out potatoes, bread, pasta, rice and obviously pastries, crisps etc.
Did a version of IF, at least a 12 hour fast, aimed for 16 where possible.
Even though not calorie counting, my calories were usually at the lower end of my NHS BMI range...
Here I am 6 months later...
BMI 30, now 24.2
Weight down 2.5 stone
5” off waist and hips
HbA1c 52 in Feb, 42 after 3 months (due to check soon)
It’s sustainable and a way of life for me now. I have health issues which mean I can’t go back to my old way of eating. This week I had my 65th birthday and retired from work. I have eaten cake twice, had a few chips once, and drank a vast amount of alcohol! Had 2 slices of toast the morning after🤣
I’m not beating myself up about it. This week I chose to eat what I did...I did *not* ‘fall off my diet’...because I’m *not* on a ‘diet’.
Also I didn’t have a big initial loss...on my Monday Movers weigh ins I’m either 1 or 2 lbs loss or STS. My ❤️App on my phone shows this fab steep downward curve for my weekly weights.
That was interesting to read, as I am basically doing the same as you. I’m about six weeks in and feel so much better. It’s definitely a way of life for me and I’m happy for the weight to come off slowly as this is long term.
Hi itsmesally. I will say thank you for your post as there has been some interesting comments. And it’s seems everyone is taking what suits their needs from different foods. I think overall, eating less or zero processed foods is the main point. I have followed the LCHF and I only wish I had been told about it 40 years ago. I would have saved a lot of money and heartache, seriously. I was constantly hungry now I am never remotely hungry and could quite easily fast now, but I have chosen to eat three meals a day. Just to add I lost weight but I was doing a lot of experimenting at the time. However, my weight has STS give or take a few ups and downs. I haven’t reached the weight I set myself but as I am not massively overweight I am now content with the food I eat and the weight I am. Carbohydrates no longer interest me, except in wine 😂, I cannot abide birthday cake and chocolates, it’s like eating sugar from the sugar bowl.
This thread is full of interesting comments and helpful advice - so thanks everyone 😊 I’m calorie counting with a bit of IF, but since joining the forum I’ve become interested in the different plans people follow and the fact that what works for one person doesn’t always work for someone else.
Considering different plans (While Sticking to my own) has really helped me to work out what eating patterns and food work for me - for example reading about fasting and giving it a try resulted in me incorporated it in a small way (16:8) and that’s been great. Also without reading about people’s LCHF diets I probably wouldn’t have twigged that cheese is not the enemy and actually when I have it (in moderation) I tend to feel full for longer - similarly I feel bloated when I eat more than a very small portion of rice - but I do still enjoy wholewheat pasta and potatoes so switching to LCHF wouldn’t suit my tastes and lifestyle, but there are so many people on here for whom it’s proved to be incredibly successful - and that’s inspiring 😊 If my current plan stops working for any reason I’m glad I’m now more informed about other options and I would definitely be open to giving them a go in future - although for obvious reason I hope my plan continues to work and I don’t need to switch 🤞
Also just realised this is probably the longest comment I’ve ever written on here so apologies if it was a bit rambling!
Hi... It appears this post hasn't been replied to in a bit but I'm just now seeing it. The only way I've been able to lose weight is with a very very LCHF diet. It works for me when I had nearly given up. I'm borderline pre diabetic - close to a 6 a1c. But my history.... haven't had any soda or sweetened beverage in over 30 years. I don't own any sugar and haven't for a couple of decades. I'm not and haven't been a "sweet" eater. I drink mostly tea ( plain - nothing in it - occasionally -rarely some cream in hot tea) and water - lots of water. I don't use artificial sweeteners - hate them and just don't like sweet tastes.
I have a history of long term lyme disease that was undiagnosed for a number of years. I also have a genetic thing that makes it hard for me to deal with mold. In this process I learned about a cytokine cascade and how my body deals with carbs- i don't handle them well at all.
For years I haven't eaten bread - no flour, sugar, pasta, etc. so have been off refined carbs for ages.
I actually got to keto - super lc by accident. I realized that one day... after feeling sorta sick and off for a day or two, that I really hadn't had any carbs in about 2 days - almost none and so i started reading and thought I'd try a keto version.
It works for me.
Stress and carbs are the worst for me in terms of weight gain. With my father's death in May - in the southern part of the US - the stress and carbs were endless. I ate things I didn't even want and don't like because they were brought by relatives and the food was just there. I was numb and sad and so I ate the stuff - needless to say my weight reflects that.
When I eat very low carb, my days are even - no energy slumps - just good steady consistency throughout the day. I like that. For me the challenge is to eat even more veggies ( i eat a lot and always have). I don't care much for meat - more poultry and seafood. I do do nuts and cheeses. I don't feel hungry on the program and i do lose weight.
I'm just now back on the program. The one thing I do miss is legumes. I love beans and I think they are very healthy. when I'm down about a stone and a half I might experiment with adding them back in but they blow the carbs out the window. Again, though, I think very healthy.
At the moment, for me, I need the low carb ( definitely under 50 - and I aim for as close to 20 as possible) to experience weight loss. My carbs come from veggies (tomatoes, peppers, onions) and some berries. I don't have potatoes or corn or any fruit besides berries.
So carbs - veggies, limited berries - never more than once a day, occasional corn tortilla (at 7 g each), and the carbs I get in nuts (generally walnuts and almonds - raw that I roast myself)
You'd think with no sweets over the years my weight wouldn't have gone up but it did. What most people cut out I've never eaten ( sodas, sweets, pasta, cake, flour, sugar) - none of that stuff was ever in my diet. My weight went up greatly with the lyme disease and my body just started processing foods differently.
Honestly, even if the diet does cause my cholesterol to be a bit higher (still not sure of this), for me it's healthier than being diabetic.
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