Only water fasting after renal transplantation. How long is safe?

[SLP2005]

Has anybody done only water fasting for over 24 hours after kidney transplant? I had done 7-8 days of only water fasting prior to KT and now have been doing IF of 20/4. I’m also a vegan of 16 years. Is long period of fasting on water safe for renal transplant recipients on immunosuppressive meds? Thx

[LisaSnow]

No it is not, because many of the medication you must take require food and nutrient to work properly. Have you cleared this method with your transplant team? It sounds really very dangerous to me.

[SLP2005 in reply to LisaSnow]

Hi Lisa,Thank you for your response! I’ve seen the scientific data on IF, Intermittent Fasting in post renal transplantation indicating safety of IF, however, there are no data on prolonged fasting. I definitely will talk to my team but I don’t expect a positive answer. Thank you again!

[SalSi in reply to SLP2005]

Hello and I do hope you ask your doctors a.s.a.p. about this matter, because our body needs all the help it can get after a kidney-transplant in order to recover a.s.a.p. and we need to take great care and "pamper" our body with good nutrients etc. to give ourselves a good chance to make a good recovery. Good luck and best wishes from SalSi.

P.S. Just out of curiosity : where did you read about the idea of 24-hour-water- fastening after a kidney-transplant, whilst at the same time taking all the heavy anti-rejection-medicine?

[SLP2005 in reply to SalSi]

Hi SalSiI’ve been fasting since 15 years of age. I’m 47 now. I cannot do over 36-40 hours of fasting due to immunosuppressive drugs. I only take two drugs daily, Envarsus and Myfortic. No other drugs. I also take B12 supplement as a vegan. My transplant team is fine with me fasting for up to 30 hours once in awhile and 20 hours daily that I’ve done for the last 4 months. I eat only once a day within 4 hour window period. I eat a huge meal during that time. Lots of starchy veggies, rice, and all the other plant based food, including legumes. I drink about 3 L of water during fasting time. I had a video call with Dr. Klaper who is one of vegan doctors previously working in True North center where people go through 40 day only water fasting . He told me to limit my fasting time to 24 hours. When I was type 1 diabetic I had fasted for up to 7 days. Of course, I do not recommend this to anyone but as long as Im alive, I’ll do anything to extend my life and live healthy and happy. Thank you!

[SalSi in reply to SLP2005]

Hello SLP2005, please tell me, why do you fast at all? Is it for medical reasons?You write that you take one huge meal every day, whereas I take three smaller meals (breakfast, lunch and a very light evening Meal). Where is the difference? My understanding is, that three small meals every day keep the body "nicely going with enough nutrition" and make sure that the twice-daily heavy anti-rejection-medicines are not being able to "hurt" an empty stomach?

What do you think? Take care and best wishes from SalSi.

[SLP2005 in reply to SalSi]

Hi SalSi,There are so much data in increasing life span in humans who allow their body to rest and focus on healing vs engaging your body in constant workout for digesting, especially if you digest dead animal food. Your trillion cells have no time for rest and regeneration but continuing to process what you put inside your body, especially consuming animal products. Look at the research. I understand that I cannot fast for extended periods of time due to the drugs; however, allowing your body rest and heal for some time throughout each day is suitable. I have not eaten breakfast for years. My body is telling me that morning meals are not a good fit fir me as U become lethargic and have lower energy vs fasting. I work a full time job and some days I work 11-12 hours straight. I can run on water only for that long but I fuel my body with most possible nutrients when I’m done with work. My labs are excellent. My lipid profile is immaculate. On just vegan diet I could not get off BP meds after transplant as immunosuppressive drugs raise BP, however, when I stopped eating twice a day and switched to 20/4 timing, I weaned myself off BP meds and antibiotics. Of course some days I fast for 16-18 hours widening the window when I eat. Usually it happens on weekends. In fact, my transplant team stated if I fast when taking Envarsus I should always fast when taking it. Envarsus is taken only once a day at am. There is no issue for me to have Myfortic taken twice a day on empty stomach at am and some food remaining at 9:30 pm, although I try to fit my meal time between 4-8 or 3-8. I work a lot and spend many hours at work so I go with my daily schedule to adjust for meal time. Weekends are much easer. I work out a lot and of course I would not be able to do so on a full stomach even with a small meal.

I am passionate about fasting and only plant based diet as I’ve read a vast amount of scientific studies since I was 15. Unfortunately, I had not become a vegan until after my first transplant ... I would have avoided the transplant.... But it is never late to learn. Look up the following scientists and doctors as Dr. Valter Longo and his research on longevity, Dr. Goldhammer and his work in True North center in CA. Watch his videos on YouTube. They have patients fast for 40 days on water only reversing the deadliest conditions. He mentioned for those on medications must not fast forward prolonged periods of time, however, rather cutting down amounts of meals per day which is called intermittent fasting or time restricted fasting. And the statement that we need food with intake of immunosuppressive drugs is a myth. There has not been ever study conducted about post transplant folks fasting short periods. On contrary, many of those drugs are recommended to be taken on empty stomach. But do look True North center philosophy. I suggest also the following books: The China Study, How Not To Die, The Starch Solution, and many many like. The China Study by Collin T Campbell changed my life. I overnight turned from vegetarian to vegan with no regrets 16 years later. I hope this helps. I also wish you much health. Much love 🌱🤗

[LisaSnow in reply to SLP2005]

I think if you have done the fasting protocol for over three months since your TP and are doing well you are probably fine.

[SLP2005 in reply to LisaSnow]

Of course. My labs have improved since and I’ve gained so much more energy. But do look up those videos I suggested in response to SalSi. Thank you, Lisa 🤗

[Falkenhayn in reply to SLP2005]

The research I have seen showing a correlation between fasting and longer life expectancy was done in mice in the 1950s, and the fasting was beneficial only if conducted while the mice were still young and growing. We could probably increase all human life expectancy, but it would involve starving babies and children, which would be too offensive to our value system.

In the early years of my transplant I would sometimes go up to four days without eating, but only because I was too busy to shop for food, cook for myself, or go to a restaurant. I only really began to feel weak on the fourth day. When I told my transplant team I was doing that, that told me that I should stop that practice, since they said the kidney needs to have material to process in order to remain healthy, but during fasting it has nothing to keep its essential functions active.

[SLP2005 in reply to Falkenhayn]

Thank you for responding, Falkenhayn! Yes I am familiar with fasting practices since late 80s when I was around 15-16 years of age. We lived in Russia and my brother was subscribing to some medical and sports journals and magazines from which I learned about Paul Bragg’s fasting method. He fasted for very prolonged times . Lately I learned about Dr. Longo’s research on longevity done with mice and yeast whose DNA resembled humans’. I had previously fasted fr 3-5 up to 7 days but was scared to try so while taking immunosuppressive; however, I discovered it could be safely done for up to 24 hours weekly or just doing time restricted feedings like I do daily, 20 or 16-18 hours on weekends., I contacted True North Center in CA where people fast for 40 days on water. So that’s what I was recommended. I found out that vegan diet , along with fasting provides amazing results. I appreciate your response! Thank you!

[SLP2005 in reply to SalSi]

Also wanted to add a few videos to watch. Free on YouTube.1 Milk: Make your own mind up.

2 The Game Changers. The best documentary of 2019

3 Coronavirus is just the start. Something far worse is coming.

4. Dr. Michael Greger: How to survive a pandemic.

Especially for us, people who depend on antibiotics and with immune compromised system. Switching to plant exclusively diet is critical. Watch many of M Greger’s videos. He is excellent, along with Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. Klaper, Dr. McDougal, Dr. Esselstyn, and of course, Dr. Collin Campbell.

[SLP2005 in reply to SalSi]

One more fact. I work as a Speech Language Pathologist in a SNF. Working face to face with COVID infected patient. A couple months ago I was tested positive fir COVID, however, having no symptoms, while my rehab staff coworkers were extremely sick. They are not on immunosuppressive drugs but immunocompromised by consuming animal protein and fat. Most of them are overweight or obese like 50% Americans that are consuming SAD diet, Standard American Diet. See the connection?

[LisaSnow in reply to SLP2005]

While I am extremely happy for you that a plant based diet works well for you, we need to be responsible by not assuming that everyone is suitable to follow the diet that you advocate for. Thank you.

[SLP2005 in reply to LisaSnow]

Plant based diet is not just suitable for me BUT for the entire planet. Animal agriculture is destroying our Earth. To make. 1/2 lbs of ground meat animal agriculture consumes 500 gallons of water. Just to make half a pound of meat!!!!! People live in a bubble blaming China dor COVID, relying on their doctors for their health instead of looking further and taking charge of your own health, trusting pharmaceutical companies to make them feel better... while getting sicker, more obese, more demented literally... I see correlation between the food my patients consume and the health of their brain, vascular health, and overall mortality. Scientists predict the end of medicine by 2050 due to resistance to antibiotics that 99% of ALL animals on factory farms are fed and then consumed by humans. What about brutality of animal agriculture??? Animals are sentient beings. They want to live like you and me. They do not want to die to satisfy humans’ guts fir pleasure. They have babies that are taken away for slaughter.... They suffer their entire short lives in small cages to be slaughtered for a burger or bacon... Karma is... you know... Humans need to live in harmony with nature and not destroying it. Watch the documentary called Milk: Make you own mind up. Free on YouTube. Make your choice whether you still want to contribute to brutality and suffering. Humans pay gir their actions with chronic diseases and pandemics. Scientists also predict Alzheimer’s disease will triple in the nearest future due to atherosclerosis of the blood vessels leading to the brain caused by consumption of saturated fat and animal protein. Make your own mind up.

[SLP2005 in reply to LisaSnow]

One additional fact. One in three Americans will develop cancer. Being on immunosuppressive drugs increases our risk of getting affected by cancer. However, consuming plant based diet significantly reduces risk of developing cancer. Every time you expose your body to animal protein, you increase your IGF1, Insulin growth hormone factor. The hormone that activates growth of cells that multiply and eventually develop into malignancies. People who are already immunocompromised should totally avoid animal protein as they increase their risk of developing cancer by 80%. God designed us to be omnivores not carnivores. Where do cows get their calcium, B12, protein? From plants they consume! We do not need to consume animals to live. The longest living healthiest humans on earth are the Blue Zoners. Their diet is primarily comprised of plants like rice, potatoes, legumes, variety of vegetables and fruit, They eat meat on occasions. They live till 90s, 100, and beyond without medications, not cognitively impaired, not wheelchair bound, and not depending on others to come and change their diapers. Again, make your own mind up,

[LisaSnow in reply to SLP2005]

Thanks for your heartfelt suggestions. Different from you, I have no need to convince others what they need to eat and how to eat, so I am not going to respond to you about diet. I think respecting diversity is especially important in a forum like this where we do not know any individuals in real life. It is simply not appropriate to assume we know better than them what their dietary needs are. That is all. Have a great day!

[SLP2005 in reply to LisaSnow]

In the era of information ignorance is a choice.

[SalSi in reply to SLP2005]

Hello SLP2005 and many thanks for sharing your great insight, which sounds very logical and your kind explanation and thoughts are very much appreciated.

I have been a vegetarian since 1971, when I was told by a medical Professor, that suffering from a chronic kidney disease and consuming meat do not go well together, because meat is so much more difficult to digest and therefore "very heavy" for the fragile body of a person who suffers from a chronic kidney-disease and his advice, to "go vegetarian" has served me extremely well ever since, because my kidney-function lasted another 43 years. Of course, it just could have been good luck, especially since at that time there was no scientific proof that it could work and the Professor told me himself, that he could not proof anything about "going vegetarian" when suffering from a kidney disease, but I believed him all the same and immediately took his advice, because he was the only person who came-up with any medical idea, how I could preserve my little kidney function for as long as is possible.

I also have been drinking Almond-milk for many years...

Many thanks again for your kind explanation and your thoughts, it gives me lots to think about and is very much appreciated.

Kind regards from SalSi.

[SLP2005 in reply to SalSi]

It’s so great to meet some really knowledgeable people like the Professor you mentioned who can change your perspective on life. And thank you SalSi abs wishing you much much wellness and health!!! 👍🤗

[SalSi in reply to SLP2005]

Thank you, SLP2005 for your kind reply.I feel that I was really lucky to have met this Professor, who was actually one of the best heart-specialists within Europe at that particular time and, luckily for me, his hobby was preventative medicine. He was a medic through and through and for him it was certainly not a "job", as we unfortunately have to observe sometimes these days... Since I was "stretching every medic's patience" at that time with my embarrassing (for them, because they had no answers) questions, of how to keep my little kidney-function going, they sent me to this Professor and he was kind enough to assist me. The good "thing" about his lectures was, that he never told me what to do. But his sentences always started with: If I was in kidney failure and wanted to keep my kidneys sweet and working for as long as possible I would think about the idea of perhaps ....etc. and that was all I was looking for. He also told me indirectly, how important it is, to keep as healthy (vegetarian fresh food cooked by myself, no fast food ever, no tin-food ever etc.) and to remain as slim and as fit as possible with daily little exercises i.e. a little walk around the block etc. which is not too challenging ... and to drink every day at least two litres of liquid.

I also noticed, that for me it is still a good "thing" to drink a cup of Peppermint-tea every day and, when my body goes through an SLE-flare-up, to drink a cup of Chamomile-tea as well to calm my distressed body etc., in fact, everything that calms the distressed body which has to overwork a lot because of "my" SLE and fragile kidney...

Of course, time proved him right ... and, most importantly, I am still alive ...

Take great care and best wishes from SalSi.

[ezzat_mahrous]

Me too i used to do long water fasting before transplation many times for 10 days or so. I wonder if you found an answer if we could do it after transplantation?