So sensitive subject... I had a water infection or so I thought(again!) and went to the doctors leukocytes were detected and it was sent off to the labs. Pressure in my bladder persisted but according to the receptionist the following week when I rang as I suffered in silence my notes were messaged with " no further action required". I was like OK I will just get on with it then as I've become accustomed. I feel these symptoms often it's always there sometimes its really bad sometimes it's niggly and it's been ongoing for the last 4yrs (not even joking!!) . But for the last few months or so my wee especially in a morning smells, not like Urine but a strong odd odour.
I've had several swabs done last month. No infection, no STD, and my vitamin levels are not high as I know B vitamins can excrete in the urine and smell(so I've read) and no I've not eaten asparagus or any other item of food that everyday for the last few months would I think cause this. The smell is way worse in a morning and when I empty my bladder it feels like my urethra is pulsating and I want to go again. Ibuprofen and paracetamol helps, a hot bath and a water bottle. It's just there. Today it occurred to me that I take my levo at night before I sleep.... Could it be this causing smelly urine... (Not sure about the bladder/urethra thing!)
When I spoke to the doctor during my appointment for swabs etc to get to the bottom of the persistent bladder issue (feeling like I have a water infection every month which is much worse after sex) she turns round and tells me it WAS A WATER INFECTION.
So has this now caused smelly urine?
She said she couldn't now give me the antibiotics as I didn't have any other symptoms! She also dismissed the odour as "it can sometimes" But agreed to send me for an ultrasound. Thankfully.
Also to note recently my liver enzymes are high could this be causing it? Although I've had high enzymes before without an odour......
Sorry this post is all over the place but I've been searching for answers quietly over the last few years but more recently with the odour.. When I search Google it just comes up with things that have been ruled out.
Ive learnt over these past few years if anybodys of any help it's this community, or least you all understand!
Recent blood tests, vitamins, thyroid, liver in my profile. Xx
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I don’t have any info to help but just wanted to say I’ve had this too. When you’re hypothyroid, your body doesn’t deal with water correctly. I feel like It stores it in your tissue rather than excreting it like it’s supposed to, allowing infections to brew in our bladder. We have to drink plenty water to keep hydrated and flush out toxins. 4litres a day!I just wanted to add this bit of advice and watch to see if anyone gives any helpful advice or info.
Thank you for this I've been recently dedicated to upping my water intake. Tea coffee I try to limit and alcohol is a no go. I don't seem to metabolise it properly I suffer terribly if I even have a little so I just abstain now as it's not worth it!
Hi you could be me ! I've tried to up my water intake even though I prefer decaf tea or coffee but my body puffs up ankles my body seems to be so puffy.Places look like skin fat and water retention.Before I was hypo I was 3 stone lighter.
Sounds horrible, poor you. Sorry I can't help but I'm also interested in your answers as the first reply also said,I've often thought my urine looks cloudy, or bitty and wondered if it's yet another thyroid symptom I already drink lots of water which is good advice I think.
I used to get interstitial cystitis problems but it's so long ago it's only a vague memory doesn't happen now, probably before my thyroid treatment started which I take care of myself now.
My urine is cloudy, and smells and tests always show leukocytes?? All of which has been persistent smell more recent I was worried this may be a sign of a worsening condition that I've been unable to find an answer to over the last 4 years. Who knows?!
3 DECEMBER 2020****Please bear in mind that I was still taking my vitamins and iron at the time of this test. I only stopped my levo 24hrs previous! I didn't know to stop them but will from now on! ***** test done at 8.15am
Range for T4. 15.1(12 - 22)
Range for T3. 4.2 (3.1- 6.8)
TSH 0.62(0.27-4.2)🤔
Thyroglobulin antibodies >4000 😩(0-115)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 293.3 😩(0-34)
Total thyroxine (T4) 99.00 (59-154)
******Please bear in mind that I was still taking my vitamins and iron at the time of this test. I only stopped my levo 24hrs previous! I will stop them from now on*****
Iron 23.7 (10-30) up but may of given false result due to still taking iron.
UIBC 30.0 (24.2-70.1)
TIBC 54 (41-77)
Transferrin Saturation 44 (20-55)
VITAMINS...
Active B12 >150 (37.5-188)
Folate 14.7 (8.83-60.8) not yet taking folate till I got results.
Vitamin D 76 (75-175) 🤔
Liver function tests
Total protein 70 (63-87)
Albumin 40 (34-52)
Globulin 30 (19-35)
Alkaline Phosphatase 93 😩<130
Alanine Transferase 53😩 (10-35)
Gamma GT 110😩 <42
Bilirubin 19 😩 <15
Follow up bloods below from doctors nearly 3months on iron and after low TSH AND REFUSAL OF LEVO DOSAGE TO BE LOWERED... CURRENTLY ON 112. 5 DAILY.
29th DECEMBER 2020
Stopped all vitamins including iron 5 days before test and Levo 24hrs previous (delayed dose) test done at 8.45am
ALSO been on GLUTEN AND LACTOSE FREE diet now for 5/6 WEEKS. Better results in T3 and T4😜 than before
Serum free T4 17.1 (10-18.7)
Range for T3. 5.6 (3.5 - 6.5)
TSH 0.18(0.38-5.5)🤔
29th DECEMBER 2020
ferritin still very low to say I have been supplementing 200mg x 3 a day! Plus eating liver, spinach, beetroot, apricots, etc etc!! And gluten free lactose free diet!
Ferritin 15 (10-322)😩😩
TIBC 60 (45-81)
Serum Iron 15 (9-30)
Transferrin Saturation 25% (15-50)
Transferrin iron 2.4 (2.5-3.8)
LIVER FUNCTION TESTS as I told Doctor of my results from Thriva!
Alkaline Phosphatase 92 😩(10-49)
Alanine Transferase 47😩 (0-32)
Gamma GT 109😩 (0-38)
Bilirubin 21😩 (0-20)
We've already had a conversation about my above results I just wondered if......
******Can these results of my liver cause smelly urine?
******Could my levo taking it at night be causing smelly urine in the morning?
Thank you for and research or help you may have in this area.
Did urine issues start after going gluten/dairy free?Only the smell everything else there beforehand and Ive taken the same vitamins and thyroxine dosage fir the last 2 years.
I’ll jump on this bandwagon too ! Been to gp a few times with concerns about not just strong smelling urine but quite dark too. Nothing found after samples tested and liver checks done as well.
I drink plenty of water too.
Just living with it now as it’s been a couple of years and nothing seems to change.
Me too! Thanks for your interesting post but I feel very sorry for you and think you need, and deserve, more help from the medics.I've noticed that when my wee is dark I feel much better than when it is colourless but then the infection-like symptoms start up. I join with the caution about drinking 4 litres of water per day too, my best friend also was admitted to hospital having collapsed as a result of drinking a lot because she'd been told to for cystitis. She too had flushed out essential electrolytes (IIRC).As for the full feeling, I've been wondering if this could be the beginnings of a prolapse (had hysterectomy at 34), anyone know what that feels like?
My husband says not to give up looking he's spurred me on to post as you've all been do helpful. The doctor I visited last month listened I told her I was just gonna live with as I knew the tests would come back clear.... They always do. And she said please don't and is reffering me to gyno and an ultrasound.
Do you take a B Complex? I remember many years ago, when I first saw Dr P, he told me to start taking a B Complex. I remember I discussed with him the next time that my urine smelled of Puffed Wheat, he said it was the B Complex. I still take B Complex now but no longer have this smell, I'm guessing it might have been down to the brand as I didn't know as much 20 years ago as I do now. I would have been taking H&B own brand back then.
My vitamin levels are in my profile under December 2020 I wouldn't say they were high... I take a sublingual B vitamin and it is H & B.... Ive been taking it for at least a year but only suffered this smell for 2 month ish 🤔 might be worth changing I wanted one with folate anyway but was trying to use it up so as not to waste it.
H&B own brand aren't particularly good quality. I'd change to a decent brand, most recommended here are Thorne Basic B - 400mcg methylfolate and 400mcg methylcobalamin per 1 x capsule, or Igennus Super B - 400mcg methylfolate and 900mcg methylcobalamin per 2 x tablets.
Your Active B12 is over 150 so you need minimal methylcobalamin in a B Complex but would benefit from 400mcg methylfolate.
The H&B sublingual B Complex is very unbalanced, it is not a full spectrum B Complex, it is missing B1 (Thiamine), B7 (Biotin) and B9 (methylfolate). It also has a very large amount of B12 as Cyanocobalamin which is not the recommended form, Methylcobalamin is the recommended form of B12.
Look for a B Complex that contains "bioavailable" forms of the vitamins.
Thank you..... these have been recommended to me before and are in my Amazon basket I was just using up what is left in my H & B bottle not worth it now with what I've just read. With this advice I will have them delivered tomorrow! 👍 Brilliant
If it's Igennus that's in your basket, just be aware that it has a high amount of B12 compared to methylfolate, and you don't need much B12 at all. To get 400mcg methyfolate (which you need as your folate level is quite low) with Igennus you need 2 x tablets which gives 900mcg B12.
I've had Hashimotos for over 20 years, after a partial thyroidectomy for a benign cyst and was put on daily thyroxine. I had a persistent bladder infection a few months ago which came out of the blue. I was given an abdominal ultrasound which showed a small incidental benign asymptomatic pancreatic cyst, which was not connected with the cystitis symptoms at all and is being monitored. However, I was diagnosed with a mildly prolapsed bladder caused by heavy lifting, and (post menopausal) mild vaginal atrophy which is being treated with daily pelvic floor exercises and estrogen cream. I am wondering whether you could also be post menopausal? Interesting that a previous poster raised the issue of a prolapse. Symptoms were feeling of fullness when sitting down, urine leakage, and burning in urethra. Worse towards the end of the day. Very unpleasant but getting better now. I had a hysterectomy ten years ago. When I saw the gynecologist for my most recent problem, she told me that prolapses are common following this operation but that they usually happen sooner. My urine does smell strange at times, and I have noticed that after eating fish this changes to a definite fishy smell for a few hours.
This is why I went to the doctors... I found a post by my menopausal vaginal where she was talking about vaginal atrophy I as like..... YES this is what I have... Every single symptom! ... Went to see doctor and she said NO SIGNS of vaginal ATROPHY. Unlike you my urine doesnt burn but I have all other symptoms off an infection that doesn't get any worse. 🤷♀️
I had persistent urine infections to the point of NHS investigation before diagnosis. These cleared up for me (more or less) once my levo was at a sensible dose. Now I am just in danger of one if I indulge too much in either booze or sex, and it’s almost guaranteed if I indulge in both on the same evening! Boo!
Caffeine can aggravate UTIs for a lot of people, so I try to cut back if I sense one coming on. I don’t think it’s just the fact that it causes more dehydration, although I could be wrong... When it is bad, I “duel fuel” on ibuprofen and paracetamol and drink a lot of water / anything with electrolytes. I sometimes take a cystitis medication after a couple of glasses of wine, as a preventative, which seems to work... my closest friend is prone to them as well; I think some of us just are, but that hypothyroidism inadequately treated makes us more prone to them.
Thank you for your reply it's a constant balancing act isn't it. This forum is ace. I've hesitated to discuss this problem but I really want to get to the bottom of it as its debilertating having symptoms of a water infection but not a water infection every month especially after sex. I mostly manage with it as I've lived with it so long but if there is an answer a cure I would be elated. I've already given up alcohol, lactose, gluten, caffeine.... Is life even worth it any more?! My husband would object to giving up sex but it effects him to and he's so understanding I want to find out what it is as much for him as me. Lol
Do you drink plenty of water every day because if you don’t, lack of fluid irritates the bladder. I too have the same problem, it comes and goes and a lot stronger in the morning as it has been stored over night. See if increasing your fluid intake, mainly water will help. I am terrible at drinking as I never seem to be thirsty and I don’t drink tea or coffee as I know they irritate the bladder along with fizzy drinks. Good luck
Absolutely sure as a doctors inspection, swabs and conclusion 🤷♀️. I think Im peri menopausal doctor says not. Currently awaiting ultrasound and gyno appointment I may even ask for an edocrinologist consultation if neither of the above reveal any answers. I live in hope
I asked if she was sure the odour was coming from her urine ..
Then , because she mentioned vaginal atrophy
I then thought it might be a possibility and worth checking out and that trying the Canesten Gel PESSARY could possibly eliminate that as it often is the cause of yeast infection which causes an unpleasant odour !
Vaginal Atrophy can often be accompanied by an imbalance of good/bad bacteria in the Vagina , particularly if there is A possibility of some kind of infection from bladder or bowel ........Using the Canesten gel pessary can be one way of determining or eliminating that it could maybe be a thrush infection perhaps .
I’m sure it’s not a new way of finding out where the source may or may not be .
Doctors don’t always test ....and they should, to be finding the source of the problem .
Vaginal atrophy (atrophic vaginitis) is thinning, drying and inflammation of the vaginal walls. a lubricant is good for this as it is a common symptom well after menopause. there is a natural lubricant called Sylk and it is amazing for dryness etc caused by vaginal atrophy. works wonders before having a smear which is very painful when you have vaginal atrophy
I had a phone consultation with my GP and asked to be referred to a gynaecologist when my UTI didn't clear up. I had had so many antibiotics but still wasn't right, although finally my urine was clear of infection. I think my GP didn't want to see me face to face if he could help it at the moment. Gynae gave me an internal and said mild prolapse and mild vaginal atrophy. Perhaps your doctor wasn't a specialist in gynae problems? Gynae referred me to a specialist physio for the pelvic floor exercises and also prescribed estriol cream or vagifem pessaries. It wasn't the urine that was burning after the UTI cleared up. It was the actual exit of the urethra. Very uncomfortable, but the estrogen has helped. Hope you can get sorted soon.
I agree.... awaiting a gyno appointment at the minute but not convinced it will be soon due to covid! It is the urethra that feels like it's pulsating.. No pain in my abdomen, no burning, no kidney pain. Mornings are the worst I could go 10 times after my first wee in a matter of an hour. I resist it though now as I know its not a water infection so I drink water, take ibuprofen and paracetamol and sit in bed with a hot water bottle. The urgency and pain lesson as the day goes on unless I've had sex by which I suffer the most for days. Occurred to me could be my levo affecting my bladder as I take it last thing at night so I just put it out there but maybe not?!
Just to add I'm 44 and last year when I spoke to a different doctor about this very same problem she dismissed me for any estrogen creams etc as I don't fit the criteria..... This new young doctor has been far far more helpful even though we initially had a heated discussion over my thyroid the first time we met. I seem to get her everytime I ring now which I'm glad of as she's the only only one in 4yrs who has done an internal, referred me to gyno and made an ultrasound appointment. Others have fobbed me off.. Given me moisturiser... Made me have swabs more than once for STD'S and offered me sex counselling! Ive made it my mission this last few months to ring them every time I have an issue so they can see that this is my life. Before I was just dealing with it as I was being fobbed off and felt ignored but I'm not giving up now!!!
hi there,do you think you are in peri-menopause? If so, I would look for advice from menopause specialists about your urinary tract issues. The internet is full of bumph that gets in the way of the sites you really need to find. Check out the British Menopause Society website for private clinics. Newson health website is also a good resource for information and a private consult could make all the difference for you going forward.
I am hypothyroid and post-menopause; symptoms for many years were hot flushes then I started getting awful persistent itching around the labia (misdiagnosed as lichen sclerosis) and then the urinary tract issues kicked in ( urgency, frequency, discomfort and spasm in urethra).It was also at the beginning of the itching phase that I first started getting deranged liver results (2015).
I found out (by paying for private help) that the itching etc were all symptoms of vaginal atrophy which my GP reluctantly began to treat with Vagifem. I now use Vagifem 3 times a week (2 weren't enough for me, so I had to insist that I needed 3 a week) and that keeps urinary tract working well 99.9% of the time. I still have to manage the itching but now I am educated about it this is not too laborious. I am also now on topical Oestrogen (can't have the regular stuff due to history of blood clots; there is now a spray available too, far less mess sorted the flushes straight away) and Utrogestan capsules.
I am not sure whether the local use of vagifem would be enough to control the UT symptoms but when I reduced to 2 a week my symptoms returned. Obviously, you have to make an educated decision about HRT of any type but for me there was no choice, the UT issues pushed me over the edge! Regarding the liver enzymes, I developed this issue post- menopause but it went way when I had my gall bladder out. If you get one take away from this, unless your GP is exceptional, (mine never mentioned menopause, once) get some private advice/check out the British Menopause Society. Best wishes.
I used to have this problem. I’ve always had UTI’s/kidney infections since being a teenager. I find that baths with bath foam and certain shower washes irritate me. In later life I found that my feeling of UTI was surrounding my monthly cycle, maybe bloating before I started my period. I once had a male doctor telling me that the female bits are too close together and that bacteria can travel easily from one bit to the other, and to make sure I emptied my bladder after sex - I was only 15 at the time and horrified, lol. Now if I feel a problem starting I have a glass of cranberry juice a day for a week or so. Good luck
I should say it also depends on when your taking your vitamins in comparison to your thyroxine. There should be at least 4 hours between them and thyroxine should be taken on a a completely empty stomach with water not anything milky or tea or coffee
Hi thereI don’t know if this is anything that would help you, or even if you may already have tried it, but I had a sore and irritable bladder for many years. About 5 years ago I started taking a probiotic capsule as I hade some stomach issues, and quite unexpectedly my sore bladder improved immeasurably. It’s not 100% but it is so much better than it used to be. I did some research and there is a theory that the close proximity of the bowel and urethra can cause some sort of cross infection (my interpretation).
I do hope you find the answer and feel better soon x
I had the same symptoms and it turned out to be a fibroid the size of a grape inside the muscle in the upper part of my uterus. It gave me bladder issues like pain or burning sensation after urinating and pain after orgasm, as well as slight pain during sex.
Interesting isn't it how 1 problem causes another. A bladder issue may not be anything to do with the bladder at all. I will have to see what the ultrasound or gyno says but thankyou for your reply.
I was repeatedly told by gps, reproductive endo, obgyn that it couldn't be that fibroid. In the beginning I was given an ultrasound and told it must be a cyst on the ovary. Another specialist said it could be interstitial cystitis. Once the fibroid was discovered I became skeptical over their opinions. I demanded my obgyn treat the fibroid and the pain and bladder issues have never returned. Interesting how something in your uterus can cause problems in the bladder!
Im beginning to think interstitial cystitis too but untill everything else is ruled out I'm going to continue to be a nuisance at the doctors with water sample testing etc just so they know this is a health issue to me and I want to be taken seriously. 4yrs is a long time to suffer. The odd thing about it is when I bleed I don't seem to suffer with it however before and after it my bladder can be horrendous! So pleased you replied I feel like there's hope yet!
Oh my, 4 years is a long time. I suffered 7 painful years, all but a few years of my 30s so it's good you're being aggressive about it. No one should suffer. I would have terrible pain if I held my urine and pain after as well and it was crippling. You must keep pressing them until you have an answer because it takes such a toll on a person to live with it. I hope you find some answers soon!
I felt off last year & requested a 24 hour urine collection, which my doctors declined. So I self paid for a urine organic acids test - nutritional & metabolic profile (don’t ask me why!). It showed I had two elevated yeast & fungal Markers, Arabinose & Carboxycitric (It also showed 6 other things off too, such as a low vitamin C level). These two markers went untreated as I couldn’t figure out what to do about it (my latest doctors routine labs were fine by the way).
My doctors did do a urine culture & sensitivity 6 months later & it was negative. Now I wish I had thought to do a urine C.&S. at the same time just to see if it was negative or not. I don’t think this expensive test was the answer but it was sort of interesting. It might have been even helpful had I popped for their consultation.
There is a high tech company where I live that makes dietary recommendations based on your labs. I guess you can go all out now if you are experimental enough & can afford it.
Hopefully your ultrasound will tell if you are fully emptying your bladder or retaining any urine after you void.
My father had suffered from interstitial cystitis for decades. He told me that a urine culture & sensitivity was the only way to detect it. Hope you have good luck with your ultrasound & getting to the bottom of your concerns. Perhaps a Integrative Medicine Internist consult might be helpful, I am leaning that way.
I did the organic acids test and had a couple of issues, including candida, but I worked through it with a nutritionist and didn't fine much improvement in my peeing behaviour...
I went the whole conventional medicine workup nine yards & ended up on a FODMAP meal plan which has settled my system for the most part (knock on wood).
Tell me about it! I am grateful to everyone who's commented because today I've woke up with severe pain when I wee and smell and as much as I still have no idea why from what I've read there could still be numerous reasons (ruled out the obvious) and I'm not going to just live with it till everything is ruled out!
I had similar issues with recurring water infections that led to hospital admissions early on because I ignored the symptoms which were smelly dark urine and getting up in the night to pee. It is a water infection and you should take the antibiotics but you need an antibiotic that suits you there are many. I dont know your age I am 65 and this started 6 years ago for me, but the thing that fixed me was vagifem pessaries they are a hormone replacement specially for that part of the body vagina. Dont know the medical link but it worked for me. Still get the odd infection but vastly less! Your doc sounds rubbish to be honest. I hope this helps. You are not going mad believe me although water infections can mess with your mindset massively! Also it is recommended to take thyroid medicine first thing in the morning and wait half an hour before eating or drinking caffeine.Stay safe hope I helped
This is an interesting question - I've had a very active bladder for about 14 years, since I was 18. It definitely pre-dates my thyroid issues.
Any time I see the doctor and get a dip test, they detect leukocytes, but when it goes off for a UTI test, there is no UTI. I've had a bladder ultrasound scan, and nothing found.
I often notice a bit of an asparagus smell when I pee in the night (I've slept through about 10 nights over 14 years), not too strong, but definitely there.
I don't think it can be related to my thyroid because that came on far to recently.
I wonder if there is another condition that people prone to thyroid issues are also prone to? As if this is a secondary autoimmune condition!
I had similar problems and have now cut out caffeine and it seems to have done the trick. Also have changed my evening tipple from wine to a G&T. Wine maybe to acidic? Also have a glass of hot water with a slice of lemon every morning and that has settled my stomach reflux.
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