I am trying to diagnose why I have gained 4lbs in weight over about the last 7 weeks when my weight is generally stable. The only change that happened was that Metavive II was changed from the 30mg version to an 80mg version, but with no more thyroid hormone in it, and I started this new version. I have been taking 2 capsules per day. I think that some of the weight might be fluid retention because I don't go to the loo as frequently now when I drink water. I have been reading some of the other posts about weight gain when T3 dosage goes down and I am wondering if that has happened to me, ie. that I am getting less T3 from this batch of meta than previously. I understand that Metavive is a glandular and therefore not precisely measured for throid hormone content in the same way as NDT (I was using Thiroyd before). I like that Metavive is produced in the UK and so there's not the same supply problems as the Thai meds but I cannot accept a weight gain. Do you think that a drop in T3 content for my current batch of Metavive might be the problem? Has anybody else on Metavive noticed something like this?
Thanks, June
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Recommend you get full thyroid and vitamin testing, see what’s going on
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies
Ask GP to test vitamin levels
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
Last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
If/when also on T3, Or Metavive make sure to take last third or quarter of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test
Is this how you do your tests?
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins
SlowDragon, many thanks for all the useful info you have posted. I stay away from my GP, especially in the days of covid, but I do need more tests. I've been putting off the ones that need a blood draw because of the virus but I'll do the finger prick ones.
Yes, I've put on 5 or 6 lbs since using the new Metavive1. So frustrating. I think it's settled down now, but I really dislike the weight gain and it's so much harder to try to take off than to keep it level. At present I'm on 2 of Metavive1 per day, but intend to go up to 3. I've had to come down from 5 a day which became too much, particularly in the hot weather.
I'm sure it's to do with the Ribonucleotides which they've added without warning. Makes me feel as if I'm a guinea pig for the new version. Their online info about ribonucleotides is not very helpful.
I was told that some people can keep using the same dose as before, but for others like me you have to cut right back and build up again to find your own level. It will be interesting to see what my blood tests are like - I've got a finger prick one waiting for me to use it.
I am so relieved to hear what you have to posted. I have also been suspicious of the Ribonucleotides that they have added to the formulation. I was not putting on weight before they did that. I am going to email them now and ask about this. If I get more info I'll post again on this thread.
When my old capsules were getting low I tried to overlap old and new ones, so starting with replacing 1 old with 1 new and the rest old. I noticed that it gave me rather loose stools to begin with.
I posted on here about a month ago. I don't know how to send you a link for it, but the title was 'Metavive new formula – doesn't agree with me. What do I do?' It was rather a long post and I had several replies.
I found that thread Anthea, thanks. I never took Metavive on an empty stomach because it did upset it. I always took it with food. The only thing unusual about me is that my cortisol is on the high side, so if the nucleotides calmed my cortisol down then that would be good but it could produce a weight gain. I have written to the manufacturers so let's see what they say.
I've taken Metavive with food ever since Dr Peatfield told me to. Taking with food also recommended by Kenneth Blanchard in his book 'The Functional Approach to Hypothyroidism'. Summarised by Dr Myhill in this link, section about timing of dosing.
I got a prompt answer for my query to the manufacturers of Metavive. Liam of customer Services phoned me and told me that there have been NO reports of users of Metavive putting on weight. What they have had are some users who have had to reduce their dosage. The most likely explanation he can give is that the nucleotides are helping some people to better absorb the product. He further explained that the nucleotides are intended to help cell renewal and gut repair, cellular energy and energy production, among other things. He could only speculate that in my case perhaps my food absorption improved and that is why I am seeing a weight gain, but he has no evidence for this.
I had already wondered if the nucleotides were having some kind of beneficial effect on my body which was indirectly causing the weight gain. I'm still not happy about the weight gain and this remains a work in progress for me, but I just wanted to post the info that I got.
It was Liam who I spoke to also. I was complaining about the immediate problems which I had found with Metavive, such as stomach upset and flushing in hot weather. The weight gain took longer to notice and I didn't go back to him to report it, but I'm pretty sure it coincided with the first few weeks of taking new Metavive.
I have since signed up with an adviser and am due for a review this week, so I'll see what he has to say. I still object to being a 'guinea pig' for the extra nucleotides and having no alternative. What testing did they do? And on whom? What ages? etc etc
I remember that in a reply to my original post it was mentioned that Dr P used to recommend NutriThyroid so that might give me an alternative option. May be worth a try.
Nutri Thyroid says on the bottle that it is "Hormone Free". Check it out with the manufacturers but my understanding is that it does not contain thyroid hormones and so would not be equivalent to Metavive.
I understand and share your concerns about the sudden addition of nucleotides. However, if you are taking Metavive because you are hypothyroid and you don't want to take levothyroxine then there's not a lot of alternatives out there. If you come up with something better I'd be interested to hear about it.
The Metavive info says nothing about containing hormones or not - it is described as 'Food for the Thyroid'. For many of us it helps with our thyroid levels which has been good enough for me... until this new version.
June, I spoke to someone at Nutri Advanced who make Nutri Thyroid. She confirmed that it is hormone free, she said that they do something to remove the hormones. Presumably Dr P had his reasons for changing his advice from NutriThyroid to Metavive. I won't be trying that.
This is very interesting, thanks for the link. I have always been told you should take thyroid meds one hour before eating to avoid absorption problems...although some claim that T3 is better absorbed than T4 even if taken with food. This gives an interesting perspective on things.
A quote which I like from Kenneth Blanchard's book, he has a theory that
'thyroid hormone contacting the stomach wall has never occurred in the evolution of the human race until we started taking oral thyroid about a century ago'
Of course many people take their meds with food because nobody has told them otherwise.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried taking thyroid hormone with food, rather than on an empty stomach, and how/if it affected hormone absorption?
I'm sure that there are plenty of people who take thyroid hormone with food.
You'll have to read Dr Kenneth Blanchard's book, there are limits to how much I can copy in here. Chapter 2. It's clear that he got many of his patients to take thyroid meds with food and if you look at the link I gave earlier to Dr Myhill's web page she must have patients who've done it too or she wouldn't be recommending it.
Dr Blanchard says that a few of his patients found that they needed slightly more T4 because of reduced absorption when mixing with food, but he says that this was surprisingly uncommon. He was looking into food cravings and weight gain.
Personally I find it so much easier to take my meds with food. It doesn't mess up your life, schedule, etc so much. First dose with breakfast, 2nd with lunch for me.
Yes, I have to admit this is taking over my life...taking thyroid meds one hour away from food, four hours away from other meds and vitamins, taking iron away from food and other vitamins...it would definitely be much simpler to take everything in one go, even if it meant raising thyroid meds.
Won´t high cortisol lead to weight gain...? That is my experience anyway. It also raises blood sugar levels and insulin which contributes to weight gain as well.
I can only talk about my own personal experience. I always test high for cortisol and maybe that originally caused a weight gain but my weight has been stable (overweight) now for years. During that time I have had 2 periods of intense stress which lasted months and each time I lost about 14 pounds in weight. After the stress was over the weight slowly crept back on. I'd love to get my cortisol down to normal levels and believe me I've tried. Maybe then, according to the theory, I'd lose the 20 pounds that I am overweight and get back to the svelte shape I was when I was younger. For now I am just concentrating on reversing this sudden 4 pounds that appeared for no apparent reason.
In my case, I ended up insulin resistant with high cortisol and insulin is a fat-storing hormone. Have you had your blood sugar and insulin levels tested?
I just did a fasting blood sugar check and was shocked to get a result of 6.2 (it should be under 5.8). So this means I am pre diabetic, not fully diabetic which would be a result over 7.0. I cannot thank you enough for suggesting that I test it. I have started a diet and managed to lose 3 pounds already. I am so glad that I caught this. I'll be testing my blood sugar regularly from now on and hopefully will continue to lose weight. I have also started taking Holy Basil to try and get my cortisol down and I'll do a cortisol saliva test about every 3 months.
Great, it´s really good that his was caught at such an early stage! In my experience, high blood sugar (and the high insulin that goes with it) causes problems like weight gain long before your levels end up in the diabetic range...I even had one doctor suggest I wait until they did before starting treatment. The thing is to reverse it long before that...I am as always appalled by the ignorance of so many doctors. They seem happy to have their patients go from pre-diabetes to diabetes 2 and then treat it...!
I noticed in that thread you mention hot flushes. Same here! I thought I was going mad but it worries me there is something else that has a hormonal effect in these new Metavive. I also started getting itchy red patches on my skin which I used to have (many years ago) premenstrually. I’m not sure what to do ..
I feel that the hot flushes were a sign that I had become overmedicated. Better when I take a lower dose than before. Also usually coincided with hot weather.
You may find it helpful to reduce your dose.
I think we can each get in touch with the suppliers so that they realise what effect the changes have made. Equivalent to the NHS's yellow cards.
Frustrating that they swap over to the new formula without giving us the option to stick with the old version.
I’m not sure whether to reduce dose - or even how to do that as I have the 80mg ones and they can’t exactly be cut up! The tiredness for me is also usually under rather than overmedicated.
I guess it’ll just have to be trial and error. A costly mistake buying so much. But what is the alternative out there☹️
Hi sandi. Did you reduce the dose in the end? How do you feel? I recently added one Metavive to my 1 grain NDT and am also having hot flushes and fatigue. I'm wondering if I'm overmedicated. It would be helpful to hear how things worked out for you.
Just a comment in reply to your reluctance to visit your GP surgery in current times. Both during and after lockdown I have visited my local surgery, A&E, and various hospital departments. Everything was scrupulously checked and organised, and I felt far safer in those environments than in a supermarket or even walking along some high streets! "Red" Covid cases are kept completely separate nowadays, so don't be put off from getting necessary treatment, particularly as Covid-19 is not going to go away anytime soon.
How kind of you to post this, and I do find it reassuring. I'm glad you have had good and safe experiences with the NHS. I would go if I had to for anything except thyroid issues. I don't even want to see the face of a doctor when I tell them I get thyroid meds off the internet because the NHS has completely failed over the years to even diagnose me as hypo. That's a closed book as far as I am concerned.
I’ve just got the metavive ll,80 mg but it says it’s from svenska which I presume is from Sweden but bought it in the uk. I’d like advice or other uk supplies plz. Inbox if you don’t mind, I’d appreciate it.
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