THE PROOF IS IN VITAMIN D BEATS COVID - WHY THE... - Thyroid UK

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THE PROOF IS IN VITAMIN D BEATS COVID - WHY THEN IS IT ALL ABOUT A VACCINE

Redlester
Redlester

Apologies for the length of this post but the information I share below comes from Chris Kesser. He says

"The first randomized controlled trial on vitamin D and COVID-19 has been published.

The results are extraordinary. In short, taking vitamin D virtually eliminated the risk of ICU admission—and may completely eliminate the risk of death—from COVID-19. The full text of the study is available online, but here’s a brief summary:

In Spain, 76 patients with COVID-19 pneumonia were randomized into two groups.

Fifty received vitamin D supplements; 26 did not.

The doses were roughly equivalent to ~30,000 IU/day for the first week, and 7,600 IU/day until discharge, ICU admission, or death.

In the control group (that wasn’t taking vitamin D), 50 percent required ICU admission. In the vitamin D group, only 2 percent were admitted to the ICU!

In the control group, there were two deaths. In the vitamin D group, there were no deaths.

The findings for ICU admission were highly statistically significant, which means the chances that there is a true causal relationship between vitamin D and a reduced risk of ICU admission are very high.

The findings for deaths were not statistically significant, because (thankfully) the number of deaths in the study was too small. But given that ICU admissions were nearly abolished by vitamin D, it is likely that vitamin D also greatly reduces the risk of death from COVID-19.

These findings will need to be replicated before we can get too excited. But if that happens, they are truly game-changing. They suggest that maintaining adequate vitamin D levels should be a strong part of the public health messaging around protecting against COVID-19, and that therapeutic doses of vitamin D should be used in the treatment.

But what is an adequate level of vitamin D?

There’s still some controversy around this, but the weight of the research points to a minimum of 30 ng/mL and a possible maximum of 60 ng/mL. There’s no evidence that 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25D) levels above 60 ng/mL provide additional protection, and there’s some evidence that levels higher than this may (in theory, at least—this hasn’t been shown) increase the risk of more severe COVID-19 infection.

With this in mind, here’s what I recommend for maintaining adequate vitamin D levels during the pandemic:

Get your 25D levels tested. If they are between 30 and 60 ng/mL, continue doing what you’ve been doing. Please note, however, that we are now moving into fall/winter in the Northern Hemisphere, so you may need to increase your supplementation to maintain the same levels.

Supplement if your levels are low. The exact dose needed will vary depending on 1) how far below 30 ng/mL your levels are; 2) your body weight and health status; 3) status of nutritional cofactors like magnesium, calcium, vitamin K2, vitamin C, etc.; 4) ethnicity and skin color; 5) gut health/nutrient absorption, and more. Since many of these factors are not easily knowable, most people can target a dose of ~4,000 to 8,000 IU/day. If your 25D levels are well below 30 ng/mL, and/or you are overweight or have other health conditions, aim for the higher end. If your levels are close to 30 ng/mL already, and/or you are lean and healthy, aim for the lower end. The overwhelming majority of studies have shown that there is no risk of taking up to 8,000 IU of vitamin D per day.

Consider a higher dose of vitamin D if you contract COVID-19. If you happen to contract COVID-19, consider taking a higher dose of vitamin D for a short period of time—especially if you don’t know what your D levels are, or if you know you’re deficient. In the study, the doses used during the first week of treatment were 106,400 IU on day 1, then 53,200 IU on days 3 and 7, then 7,600 IU per day thereafter.

Ensure adequate levels of cofactors like magnesium, vitamin C, calcium, and vitamin K2. Magnesium is especially important, and most people should aim for between 250 and 500 mg/d.

This is a simple, affordable, virtually risk-free strategy that everyone should be taking to protect themselves and their families. "

My question is this: if this study has been done and yielded these results, and vitamin D is a safe and effective treatment [as opposed to a vaccine which has been rushed through with both questionable safety and efficacy] why is the UK government only looking at a vaccine - why is no consideration being given to Vitamin D which aside from covid-beating would improve the health of the nation generally?

133 Replies
oldestnewest

This is not new information. Numerous articles around

helvella
helvellaAdministrator

This paper is an overview which includes the study of 76 patients in Spain.

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2020 Sep; 202: 105719.

Published online 2020 Jun 11. doi: 10.1016/j.jsbmb.2020.105719

PMCID: PMC7289092

PMID: 32535032

Vitamin D receptor stimulation to reduce acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) in patients with coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 infections

Revised Ms SBMB 2020_166

Jose Manuel Quesada-Gomez,a,b Marta Entrenas-Castillo,c and Roger Bouillond,*

Author information Article notes Copyright and License information Disclaimer

aInstituto Maimónides de Investigación Biomédica de Córdoba (IMIBIC). Hospital Universitario Reina Sofía, Universidad de Córdoba, Fundación Progreso y Salud, Avda. Menéndez Pidal s/n, 14004, Córdoba, Spain

bCIBER de Fragilidad y Envejecimiento Saludable (CIBERFES), Spain

cUGC de Neumología. Instituto Maimónides de Investigación Biomédica de Córdoba (IMIBIC). Hospital Universitario Reina Sofía, Universidad de Córdoba, Avda Menéndez Pidal s/n, 14004, Córdoba, Spain

dDepartment of Chronic Diseases, Metabolism and Ageing, Laboratory of Clinical and Experimental Endocrinology, KU Leuven, Herestraat, ON 1/902, 3000, Leuven, Belgium

Roger Bouillon: eb.nevueluk@nolliuob.regor

Abstract

Coronavirus infection is a serious health problem awaiting an effective vaccine and/or antiviral treatment. The major complication of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), the Acute Respiratory Distress syndrome (ARDS), is due to a variety of mechanisms including cytokine storm, dysregulation of the renin-angiotensin system, neutrophil activation and increased (micro)coagulation. Based on many preclinical studies and observational data in humans, ARDS may be aggravated by vitamin D deficiency and tapered down by activation of the vitamin D receptor. Several randomized clinical trials using either oral vitamin D or oral Calcifediol (25OHD) are ongoing. Based on a pilot study, oral calcifediol may be the most promising approach. These studies are expected to provide guidelines within a few months.

Keywords: Vitamin D, vitamin D3 or cholecalciferol; Calcifediol or 25-hydroxyvitamin D3; 1α, 25(OH)2D or 1α, 25-dihydroxyvitamin D or calcitriol; Corona virus; SARS-CoV-2; Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS); Cytokine storm; Lung diseases; Renin-angiotensin system; Hypercoagulability

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I’ve seen a few studies suggesting vitamin D might play a role in susceptibility to COVID-19. It seems vit D deficiency increases the risk. There isn’t proof at the moment and although the Government is looking at many approaches their strategy is the only recommend those that are known to work.

Regarding vitamin D I think a better approach might be to advise the public that it may offer some protection and therefore it is wise to take vitamin D supplements as it is a safe and cheap option. The danger of course is that people think they are safer and cease to take precautions such as social distancing.

But this one sciencedirect.com/science/a... is the first randomised clinical study since we have been beset by cv19 and looks pretty much like proof to me. I expect the authorities to ignore it.

This and other studies suggest vitamin D helps prevent and treat COVID-19. I would supplement to avoid deficiency in addition to other strategies such as social distancing.

It seems that there is far more evidence for vit D than anti-social distancing

Social distancing had a massive effect but cannot be a long term solution.

Quite an interesting paper:

cebm.net/covid-19/what-is-t...

Glad I work outdoors on VitD front and it seeming to spread more effectively in closed environments.

LOL " anti-social distancing" I call it that, too.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

for someone like me who cannot have any kind of vaccine this study offers me hope that the vitamin D could be an alternative way of protecting myself - I am sure there are others in a similar position who will be also heartened by this news.

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Redlester

It looks like vitamin D deficiency puts us at extra risk from COVID-19 so it makes good sense to supplement a little. Vaccines vary considerably in effectiveness, polio vaccine has been a wonderful advance whereas influenza vaccines are a boon but moderately effective.

We don’t know if there will be a vaccine for COVID-19 or how effective it will be. I think we should take every reasonable precaution without going over the top or worrying too much.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to jimh111

Which brings to a crunch my oft-repeated cry - What do people do who are unable to tolerate vitamin D supplements? Are they supposed to do nothing and, in the end, suffer worse from Covid-19? Are there any proper answers?

Quercetin or HCQ and zinc perhaps, or chase the sun (not that we're allowed to with quarantine)

only if you’re well off enough have a private garden 🙄 we were banned from working in our allotments for more than a hour a day - I thought that was bonkers.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to TSH110

OMG common sense has left the building!!!

I'm using quercetin and olive leaf extract and so far so good.

Espeegee
Espeegee in reply to jimh111

Have you seen this, taken from the Guardian - "New cases of polio linked to the oral vaccine have been reported in four African countries and more children are now being paralysed by vaccine-derived viruses than those infected by viruses in the wild, according to global health numbers.

The World Health Organization (WHO) and partners identified nine new cases caused by the vaccine in Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Central African Republic and Angola last week. Along with seven other African countries with outbreaks, cases have also been reported in Asia. In Afghanistan and Pakistan polio remains endemic, and in Pakistan officials have been accused of covering up vaccine-related cases." Just a bit worrying especially as I've read about similar cases in the States.

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Espeegee

I haven’t seen this. Perhaps they need to improve the current polio vaccines. A number of countries have Moslem extremist groups that attack vaccine facilities, it’s very difficult for these governments to fight off these groups. This is not a sleight on Islam, most Moslems support vaccination and have excellent community attitudes and support.

In general the polio vaccination program has been a great success, I remember when every infant school had polio damaged children.

alchemilla12
alchemilla12 in reply to jimh111

just as a matter of interest guess who bank rolled the defective vaccine -Mr Gates and his foundation

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to jimh111

Where is your source for this assertion Jim?

Mamapea1
Mamapea1 in reply to Scrumbler

That's what I'd like know. I don't know about 'Muslim' groups, but I know there are groups/tribes of people worldwide that become sick of their children suffering damage from the multiple vaccine programmes, and try to fight against it. We did it here once, in 1885 in Leicester, against the smallpox vaccine.

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to Mamapea1

The same happened with groups of parents who fought against MMR vaccines - largely based on the false premise that it causes autism.

Mamapea1
Mamapea1 in reply to Scrumbler

Gosh, that one really stuck didn't it...still going round. I won't get into it here, as the post will be undoubtedly be closed, but interesting to note that his series of case study notes re MMR were removed from the Lancet by the GMC 12 years (!) after publication.

The retraction occurred just as he had published another study that revealed neurological dysfunction in male baby monkeys after receiving a single dose of hepatitis B vaccine at birth....a common practice now in some places, where damage claims soar. Maybe that's what it was all about...the last straw...who knows?

When published without his name, studies were labelled 'further investigations are required'...it's all smoke and mirrors, unfortunately.

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to Mamapea1

I am fully cognisant of the whole debate and the outcome. It still rears its head from time to time 😉

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Scrumbler

Sorry my browser doesn’t show me which of my comments your question is related to. Which assertion do you mean?

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to jimh111

A number of countries have Moslem extremist groups that attack vaccine facilities, it’s very difficult for these governments to fight off these groups

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Scrumbler

Here is one ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... , there are other cases such as in Indonesia. These actions are carried out by a tiny minority. My aim was to point out the consequences of stopping vaccination, I’m in danger of drifting off topic. Where polio vaccination has stopped new cases of polio have occurred.

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to jimh111

Thank you Jim 😊

Redlester
Redlester in reply to Espeegee

don't think it hasn't happened here too. Dr Elizabeth Dowsett, who has provided advice to the ME/CFS community, calls it, in many cases, post-polio syndrome. But of course in medical circles it dare not speak its name.

Mamapea1
Mamapea1 in reply to Redlester

👏🏼 well said Redlester....and here I am! x

Redlester
Redlester in reply to Mamapea1

et moi aussi Mamapea1.x

Mamapea1
Mamapea1 in reply to Espeegee

I recently read about that, and was shocked at the assertion that polio vaccination has been successful. It seems people are still unaware of what's really going on. Sadly, this has been the case all along. The only change is the cry of hurrah at the wild virus being insignificant now...we just have to deal with the vaccine-derived polio 2 version now. I gather it takes multiple vaccinations to do so☹️

Marz
Marz in reply to Espeegee

Same with the measles outbreak at Disneyland - it was not the wild variety ! India suffered huge problems with polio vaccine and banned BG.

Vaccines Revealed on-line summit currently running ...

We have been told that the flu vaccine no longer contains mercury - well it does but in a smaller quantity which does not have to be declared on the label !

When many millions of £££'s have been invested in a vaccine that may or may not work it seems that talking about a humble vitamin is not flavour of the day. Big Pharma cannot patent a vitamin !

Preventative medicine has never been a strong point of the prevailing medical model !

Redlester
Redlester in reply to Marz

My point precisely Marz!! Couldn't agree more. Nothing on mainstream media about vitamin D ever.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Redlester

In about two minutes I readily found numerous items about vitamin D:

theguardian.com/world/2020/...

theguardian.com/world/2020/...

theguardian.com/society/201...

theguardian.com/profile/har...

independent.co.uk/news/scie...

independent.co.uk/life-styl...

independent.co.uk/life-styl...

There are many, many more - I only included a handful from sites which are easy to access.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to helvella

Yes - but I was thinking predominantly of the BBC/SKY/ITN news bulletins. All of them have reported ad nauseam the fact that there is a disproportionate risk of succumbing to covid in the BAME community, attributing it to social deprivation and discrimination and never once have I seen their vitamin D status mentioned. To that extent it is actually biased reporting and doing this community a disservice as their covid risk could be much diminished if the medical community was prompted by accurate reporting to consider and act on their vitamin D status. Many people don't have time to read a newspaper but do have time to digest the nightly news - for lots that is their only news.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Redlester

It isn't clear how much of the vitamin D news was carried on national television, but the BBC certainly have put out items about vitamin D. Obviously not all will be relevant, certainly not all refer to Covid-19 at all, but there are towards 300 items identified by a search.

bbc.co.uk/search?q=vitamin+d

One item in particular seemed spot on:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52894225

The items seem to be predominantly items that were carried on the website but I am sure quite a number were put out on various radio channels - local and national.

Sky news had this:

news.sky.com/story/coronavi...

I have even less idea whether it was carried n television (we do not get Sky).

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Marz

However, for one example, Pfizer is a very big pharma company and is also a major player in the vitamin D market.

Many of the same ingredients, processes, machines, processes, etc., are the same for supplements as for pharmaceuticals. There is much overlap.

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

Ah yes - seems they have joined up with GSK too to grab a share of the supplement market. Guess GSK need to re-coup some of the millions they have had to pay out in compensation due to harmful drugs ...

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Marz

You could argue that the supplement industry has hitched a ride on the pharmaceutical industry. For example, they can simply buy ingredients already in widespread use in pharma.

But pharma has invested in some supplement companies.

When it comes to substances like vitamin B12, just where is the line between pharma and supplement?

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

Wish I knew the answer to the B12 issue. It would appear to be a dangerous drug that needs a prescription and is restricted 🙃

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Marz

But not if you only fancy it for fun and entertainment and, like a cup of coffee, to give you a boost. Then you can readily buy.

It is when you might become very ill, even die, then they restrict access.

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

Sad but true ...

Dr malcom kendick (Cheshire ) did a blog back in April ref vit D, he pointed out that those most vulnerable are also those prone to low vit D (elderly, darker skin, less active, diabetic etc) also that our vit D lower in winter months when it first started. He also said high dose vit c, zinc and quecertin (spelling ) which is in red onions and red apples would boost immunity, kendrick also said the fear and stress would harm many and best single thing you can do for your health is switch the news off as tbh you are more likely to die of cancer than covid.

Poppy234
Poppy234 in reply to endomad

I think sounds sensible until the last bit because you can’t catch cancer off someone so that seems to be irrelevant

endomad
endomad in reply to Poppy234

True but they say one in three people will get cancer. I always remember the massive poster on hammersmith broadway back in the 80's ' if there are 4 of you in your car one if you will get cancer' always scared me to death (as I looked at my friends in the car and hoping it wasn't going to be me)

Poppy234
Poppy234 in reply to endomad

Yes cancer is much more scary I agree.

Poppy234
Poppy234 in reply to endomad

And my nursing friend says it’s more worrying to her and that 500 a day die of it. I’m not sure whether that’s accurate but I may research it.

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to endomad

My nephew was told at school 1 in 4 of the people in the world was Chinese. When he got home and sat down for tea with his mum dad and brother he told them and then asked in all earnest “So which one of us is Chinese?”

endomad
endomad in reply to TSH110

Brilliant I would have thought the same 😊

vocalEK
vocalEK in reply to endomad

To "get cancer" doesn't necessarily mean to die from it. I am a 6-year lung cancer survivor. My husband has survived throat, skin, and prostate cancer.

endomad
endomad in reply to vocalEK

In the same way not everyone who gets covid will die and it's a shame reports don't focus on this.

Wowzers you and your husband have been through the mill, just goes to show how good nhs is, however 3 months cancelled treatment and operations, then the backlog will not help new cases.

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to vocalEK

I’ve survived three cancers but I don’t fancy my odds on Covid. No comparison.

vocalEK
vocalEK in reply to Scrumbler

grassrootshealth.net/blog/8...

Studies have shown that high levels of vitamin D (high, not merely "adequate") prevent several types of cancer. Check out the site in that link.

Scrumbler
Scrumbler in reply to vocalEK

OK 👍

Hope-Simpson showed that it is actually quite difficult to catch a virus off someone if you are healthy and have a decent vit D level - even if you drink their snot! See ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Thanks very much, Angel_of_the_North .

That's a mental image I won't get rid of easily!

Cooper27
Cooper27 in reply to endomad

I've heard people saying about it all kicking off in winter before, because our Vitamin D levels fall etc. It makes some sense, but then we have to remember it was only winter in the northern hemisphere - the virus took hold in many southern hemisphere nations at the height of their summer.

Or did it? The number of deaths in AUS and NZ are really, really low compared with UK.

It did start in those countries in their summer though, and in fairness, it's quite rampant in Peru/Brazil/Chile, even Mexico/Florida, which are less seasonal.

Apparently in more tropical areas, viruses follow the rainy season or something like that. I didn't read those articles very well as I'm not likely to live in a tropical area

Would tropical season cause a drop in vitamin D similar to our winter season?

Redlester
Redlester in reply to Cooper27

yes but what was the vitamin D status of those people? even in their summer? - if they were constantly slathering themselves in sunscreen as the antipodeans are so fond of doing to avoid catching skin cancer and were not supplementing or eating it D rich food they would have low levels of vit D irrespective of the season

Cooper27
Cooper27 in reply to Redlester

But the argument is that it kicked off in winter because that's when vitamin D levels are lowest, but it wasn't winter in every nation it kicked off in.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Cooper27

Given that the vitamin D market is huge, I wonder what effect that has on vitamin D levels across populations? Can we still claim that vitamin D drops in winter? Or do those who see the need supplement to such an extent that vitamin D levels are stable or even rise?

(Obviously, in an individual who doesn't supplement, vitamin D would usually be expected to fall in winter. I am talking at the level of country populations.)

This doctor has been promoting vitamin D for many months and he is brilliant at analysing the trends and results of this pandemic. Link being tricky it's Doctor John Campbell.

youtu.be/_fIMkigtnk4

Watch all his stuff, he’s very good

check out Dr Mercola he writes loads of stuff about effective supplements for Covid prevention and treatment-not just Vit D but high dose Vit C ,zinc ,quercetin ,nebulised hydrogen peroxide .There is a huge amount of information about helping our immune systems out there but so much info is being deleted / censored by certain social media sites or hidden in searches by the search engine giants algorhythms

I agree, I think Dr Mercola is brilliant, I get his email alerts every day, he's my go to for all kinds of info. 😎

Spot on, Marz. It's all about big pharma money - full stop. And the Governments are easily led by scientists as we've seen cos it lets them off the hook. When did they ever make their own decision which could be later shown to be wrong and so help lose votes?

Sorry Jim, but I disagree with your comment about only recommending what's known to work. They back whatever they're told by big pharma might or might not work (and the jury is largely out at present for both prevention and treatment of covid).

Surely they should at least use OUR money to support natural approaches as well as allopathic??? Instead they allow/support online media's attempts to block people like Kresser, Mercola reporting them to us. Disgraceful!

userotc
userotc in reply to userotc

Marz not Marx!

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to userotc

You may not realise that you can edit, or delete, any posts or responses you have made here.

HealthUnlocked have produced some help for how to do this. You can find this here:

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When you edit the original post in a thread, you will also have the option to add (or remove) a single image. (To replace an image, remove the existing image, then add the new one.) This is the same process as writing a new post:

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I am pointing this out purely to ensure that you know your options. :-)

(If you make extensive changes, it is sometimes helpful to add a comment so that people can see that you have made changes.)

userotc
userotc in reply to helvella

Thanks, now done!

Insufficient control group and surely the majority of people in Spain already have adequate or higher Vit D levels because of their climate unless perhaps they have not been out for other reasons. Were they tested prior to treatment? What about other underlining health conditions, blood groups, ethenticity, general health etc.? There has also been so called miracle treatment from salt tablets. The healthier you are including vitamins, the less likely you are to die from COVID-19 generally but this needs a lot more research. Many research projects are ongoing throughout the world. But keep taking your Vit D LOL

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to annnsandell

I suspect you are making an assumption there about vitamin D levels in Spain.

It can be concluded that vitamin D deficiency (se-rum 25(OH)D <25nmol/l) is more common in southern than in northern Europe. Risk groups are the elderly (especially the institutionalised and house-bound), adolescents, and non-western immigrants. Dependent on the required serum 25(OH)D level, either 50 or 75nmol/l, the percentage of the population with vitamin D insufficiency is high or very high in most European countries.

iofbonehealth.org/sites/def...

Yes - I know it is a bit old (2009). And there might well also be sources suggesting the opposite.

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

From living in Greece I observed the elderly hiding from the sun and often swathed in lots of black clothing - when widowed. They often came out at around 5pm for a paddle in the sea - clothes hitched up !

Yes I agree, when you mention elderly, housebound etc. less sunlight etc. and they tend to cover up more but isn't that the point, they are more likely to have underlining health conditions. The studies obviously need to show a link to increasing Vit D improved their COVID-19 recovery and not any other factors. Very difficult in such a small control group and without comprehensive analysis.

Here's your link: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Great link thanks 😎

Interesting read, especially in light of numbers of deaths reducing in the northern hemisphere in the summer months. It makes me wonder if people are naturally producing more vitamin D in the summer months perhaps this is a natural protective factor for some. Would definitely make sense to recommend taking in winter months at least.

I do think though it’s not an either or situation. I have actually volunteered for the Covid vaccination trial and have been really impressed at the process and effort going in to finding a possible solution. Maybe it won’t work, but it’s worth a shot, especially for the more vulnerable members of society and those of us who been having to work as front line NHS staff.

Thank you for sharing 😊

It's also down to air humidity, apparently.

In the control group (that wasn’t taking vitamin D), 50 percent required ICU admission. In the vitamin D group, only 2 percent were admitted to the ICU!

I like that they call it 2%. 2% of 50 is one patient :D

This is very promising although such a small scale.

Regarding your vaccine point: this study was based on people who were already in hospital. It doesn't tell us whether vitamin D would prevent patients from catching the virus in the first instance (it likely would, but no guarantees), which is the aim of the vaccine.

The initial doses were incredibly high: ~30,000 IU/day for the first week, and 7,600 IU/day until discharge, ICU admission, or death. We need that translated into a preventative dose for the wider population.

Marz
Marz in reply to Cooper27

Dose based on your D result.

With covid you can end up with ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome)

Even before covid there was evidence that Low vitamin D levels was a factor of ARDS

No money in vit D - lots of money in vaccines

Awful lot of money needed for developing, testing and large scale testing of a vaccine, only get a return if you come up with a vaccine and it’s one of the best. Risk of massive litigation if you slip up and people are harmed.

Lots of money in vitamins.

I don’t think the strategy is determined purely by financial concerns.

No risk of loss of money from litigation - nowadays governments/taxpayers pay for that. Companies are indemnified against problems with vaccines or they won't make them, so no incentive to make sure they are safe and effective, as there once was.

I know the vaccine makers are exempt from litigation in America but I don't know if that still applies in the UK? I would like to know...

endomad
endomad in reply to Marymary7

Yes that in itself is enough for me NOT to have the vaccine, that's like telling me the damage/side effects will be too huge to pay compensation so must have no legal liability. People die of flu every year even when vaccinated usually the same vulnerable groups.

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to Marymary7

I understand it is the case here as well

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to TSH110

It appears NOT to be true in the EU.

However, I cannot make out whether that EU court decision applies in the UK.

TSH110
TSH110 in reply to helvella

Perhaps I am mistaken then. I think I might have got this impression from Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s blog, maybe he was just referring to the States.

I’ve done a quick search and he does imply UK has given vaccine developers indemnity from liability. The blog post was a year back. Perhaps the European law is more recent.

In this blog drmalcolmkendrick.org/2019/...

He says:

Another element, adopted by countries such as Canada, the US, UK, France, and Germany, was to provide vaccine manufacturers indemnity from liability for wrongdoing, thereby reducing the risk of a lawsuit stemming from vaccine related injury.’ Quite extraordinary. In my view, beyond extraordinary.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to helvella

In 2017, this court judgement was handed down. I think that, as EU members at the time, it would apply in the UK. However, having no legal training at all, I could easily be missing all sorts of factors. Like later judgements.

My point is that this appears to allow a compensation c;laim against a vaccine manufacturer, at least in some cases. Not the blanket "not possible" that appears to have been suggested.

Vaccine ruling from Europe's highest court isn't as crazy as scientists think

Media and scientific uproar over admissible evidence 'exaggerated', say legal scholars.

Laura Castells

& Declan Butler

28 June 2017

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Rights & Permissions

Going by news reports, Europe's highest court threw science out the window last week.

The Court of Justice of the European Union (ECJ) in Luxembourg handed down a judgment on 21 June in a compensation case involving a French man who claimed that a vaccination for hepatitis B caused his multiple sclerosis. The ruling specifies what type of evidence is allowed in EU member states in such cases, but it prompted a flurry of negative press coverage: "Vaccines can be blamed for illness without scientific evidence," warned CNN, while The Telegraph, a UK newspaper, claimed that the ruling “could open floodgates for spurious vaccination claims”.

nature.com/news/vaccine-rul...

Hillwoman
Hillwoman in reply to jimh111

In the UK, US and possibly other countries, vaccine manufacturers are indemnified against legal claims over vaccine-related adverse effects, up to and including death.

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Hillwoman

I don’t think this is true. Although there are some plans to give some indemnity for COVID-19 vaccine development whatdotheyknow.com/request/... .

Hillwoman
Hillwoman in reply to jimh111

It's been true for quite some time. The plans to grant indemnity re Covid vaccine(s) relate to the fact this will be an unlicensed treatment that will be used before it has gone through the usual regulatory procedures. Humanbean has linked to the information further down.

alchemilla12
alchemilla12 in reply to jimh111

big pharma companies are protected from litigation if their medications harm people ( at least that is the case in the US)Theres an awful big return for those investing in finding a vaccine -Bill Gates for example- which is why there is no "appetite " for prevention by people improving their health by diet and supplementation.Big Pharma needs us all to be and keep ill

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to alchemilla12

Bill Gates will not get a penny from any vaccine, he is putting money into a charity.

Marz
Marz in reply to jimh111

Which Charity ? His own ?

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Marz

The Bill and Melissa Gates charity I think. Are you suggesting this is a profit making enterprise for them? I.e. they get out more than they put in.

Marz
Marz in reply to jimh111

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation works well at reducing their Tax Bill I have read. Fingers in too many pies in the name of Philanthropy when reducing the population is the name of the game. Beware of G(r)eeks bearing gifts ...

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Marz

I’m sure charity donations are tax exempt in the USA as in the UK. I don’t know if he gives £1billion to charity whether he would get more than £1billion in tax rebates or whether he would just not pay tax on that £1billion as is the case in the UK.

Marz
Marz in reply to jimh111

I have no idea how tax exemptions work - I just do not like the mis-use of power money creates. How many governments - universities - research labs - MSM- are financed by him/them ? - not forgetting the WHO and the WEF. It skews the global picture. Then we have to deal with his other craze - blocking g out the sun ! Very appropriate for a VitD thread !!

alchemilla12
alchemilla12 in reply to jimh111

heres a link -scroll down to where it says how the Gates Foundation benefits from its donations

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

just one example of many

alchemilla12
alchemilla12 in reply to jimh111

Im afraid youre wrong -yes he has a charity but he also has multiple financial fingers in these charities -I can send you links if you want .

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to alchemilla12

This is way outside the scope of this forum.

The thread has been left open so far but if it continues in this direction it will be closed.

Please take discussion of Gates Foundation, etc., elsewhere.

You are, of course, welcome to discuss directly thyroid related issues.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

he may do, but look at the massive [I'd say all pervasive] influence he will have - stifling debate or discussion - is that a good or healthy thing? I don't think so

I have a few comments on this whole vaccine issue.

1) The quickest development of a new vaccine was four years for the mumps vaccine in the 1960s.

history.com/news/mumps-vacc...

The powers-that-be are trying to persuade society that they can do it in record-breaking time by skipping a lot of the testing phases.

2) Nobody has ever developed a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. The powers-that-be are probably hoping to develop an annual vaccine like the one for flu which will bring in lots more money than a one-off vaccine, but will massively increase the risks for people who are vaccinated.

3) In the UK the government wants to pass new rules allowing people to be forced to accept vaccination with a poorly tested vaccine.

gov.uk/government/consultat...

Once a vaccine is made mandatory we will never get back the freedom to refuse to have one. There is a petition that people can sign, although I have to say I have no faith in petitions on any subject. The government does what it wants, usually with no reference to parliament.

petition.parliament.uk/peti...

4) In my opinion the hysteria about HCQ, vitamin D, zinc, steroids, and (for those who develop bacterial pneumonia) azithromycin, has been orchestrated to make sure people are not treated with cheap, well tested, well understood, unpatented drugs and society is persuaded their only hope is a vaccine. Drugs that are no longer patented do not make profits. Vaccines do.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to humanbean

However, two of the most promising treatments are dexamethasone and hydrocortisone. Not new. Not in patent.

And T3 in the UK is most certainly making a profit for someone. Never having been patented (so far as I know - but certainly not in patent now) has not stopped gouging taking place.

humanbean
humanbean in reply to helvella

Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned steroids. I was suggesting that the hysteria from the media about HCQ etc was to prevent people from trying things which are cheap and no longer patented (like steroids) which have helped people. I think my sentence was poorly constructed, or you misunderstood what I meant - I don't think we are disagreeing. :)

Marz
Marz in reply to humanbean

In the US they are trying to push through a drug costing thousands of dollars to replace HCQ that costs pence. Mr Fauci is involved with the licence. Remdesivir I think is the name. Huge amounts of effort gone into discrediting HCQ.

Dr Vernon Coleman did a good short video on vaccines - the payouts. Many of his videos have been taken down but the transcripts remain on his website.

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to helvella

Liothyronine was patented as Tertroxin. The license holder debranded it so it was no longer subject to price regulation.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to jimh111

Really? I checked the UK and world patents and never found it.

The brand Tertroxin was registered - there we can agree.

There are patents on processes and associated things but not, so far as I can see, the actual active ingredient.

For example:

worldwide.espacenet.com/sea...

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to humanbean

Your first reference is a long document, where does it say people will be forced to take the vaccine? The document also seems to say that any vaccine would have to be fully tested, it draws a distinction between ‘tested’ and ‘licensed’. A future COVID-19 vaccine may be unlicensed (like liothyronine for hypothyroidism) but has to be tested. I‘m away from home at the moment so don’t have PC access or time to study the document.

humanbean
humanbean in reply to jimh111

It turns out I was wrong :

gardencourtchambers.co.uk/c...

It took a while to find the above link.

I don't think we are out of the woods yet on the subject of mandatory vaccination. I still believe it could happen if a vaccine comes out. But for today at least, we're still okay.

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to humanbean

That’s fine. Totally unscientific but my hunch is that any vaccine will be much like the influenza vaccine, i.e. moderately effective. We may have to have a multi-faceted approach with vaccine, vitamin D, improved therapy and other options like track and trace. Perhaps in the long term there will be some herd immunity and things will be more normal.

There’s also a trial of liothyronine due to complete next summer that may reduce mortality.

Marz
Marz in reply to jimh111

Think it has been re-named - Test and Trace. For more information about what is tested and constitutes a 'case' is well explained in Dr Kendricks latest Blog.

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Marz

I think it might depend on which country you are in what it is called!

Don't Wales, Scotland and NI have different names?

Marz
Marz in reply to helvella

You could well be correct ! Too many changes to keep up with !

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

do you mean a trial of liothyronine re Covid? can you share any information on this?

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Redlester

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

does this mean that there is a possibility that those of us who are taking high dose T3 as part of their treatment regimen for certain forms of hypothyroidism will gain an additional anti-covid benefit from it?

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Redlester

No. In severe illness and particularly in COVID-19 you get ‘low T3 syndrome’. Nobody truly knows whether this low T3 is protective or pathogenic. i.e. whether it helps recovery or makes the patient worse. This study is an attempt to answer that question, as far as COVID-19 goes.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

would imagine low T3 would be pathogenic rather than protective, as low T3 would reduce a patient's general resistance - no?

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Redlester

I suspect so but we really need proof. Low T3 syndrome has been known about for ages and no useful research done.

Redlester
Redlester in reply to jimh111

wonder if it is affecting the group of patients suffering from "Long Covid" - shame the conventional medics are unlikely to consider it

jimh111
jimh111 in reply to Redlester

Could be one of a number of causes.

I recall reading that at one time when tuberculosis was rampant, they used to shut people up in darkened rooms. Then they discovered that making sure the patients got some fresh air and sun shine improved survival rates. This discussion got me to thinking about the role of Vitamin D. Found this: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

This would also explain why black and brown communities are so disproportionately affected! Darker skin tones don’t absorb as much vitamin D from the sun, and tend to run lower on vitamin D. What a simple preventive step for so many at risk....we need to share this info. Thanks!

AnnaSo
AnnaSo in reply to Pinkandgreen7

I was thinking just that, since as for now it seems they can’t figure it out.

Has anyone asked the gov why it's not promoting vit d?

helvella
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Greenwall

Have a look at the fairly recent NICE document:

nice.org.uk/advice/es28/evi...

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