apart from the multitude of other symptoms i am struggling with i notice that i am having transient issues with slow speech and slightly slurred speech, it seems to be worse first thing in the morning and then improves as the day progresses, i feel sometimes as though i have to consciously formulate the words with my lips rather than it being completely natural (hope that makes sense) and sometimes if i don't slow my natural pace of speech then words come out mispronounced and slightly slurry..
Can this be common with Hypo ??
Any comments or assistance very much appreciated.
Many thanks.
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SPD1
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thanks for your reply, about 9 months ago, been on 150mcg Levo only for 15 years or so, the problem is my TSH has been around 0.01 to 0.03 for the last 10 years and i have felt very good but i am always having to battle with my GP who goes in to panic mode about it and always trying to get me to reduce so i don't think there is a cat in hells chance of an increase in Levo, she isn't interested in how i feel just the bloods, typical GP!
I'm stuck really because i need to investigate all the symptoms but worried sick that the GP will just focus on the TSH and not carry out further testing for Adrenals, hormones etc and i am struggling financially so can't afford a specialist..
Do you know what the situation is if the GP insists i reduce but i don't want to, can they just go ahead and reduce anyway? Is a patient able to sign a disclaimer of some description to absolve the GP from any liability if they disagree with a reduction, i would imagine it's not that simple as i have never seen it mentioned on here..
No, basically, the doctor does what he wants, regardless of the patient's wishes. And some of them can be so bloody-minded! They know best and that's all there is to it! You can find some doctors that can be persuaded that you know the (non-existant) risks and are willing to take them. But you have no rights in law.
I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I have encountered this myself, and, it's very frustrating and upsetting.
You will get some excellent advice on this forum.
I have to recommend, that if possible, go and see your doctor; if nothing else, they can check your health, and help to, put your mind at ease.
In the meantime...as far as I know, there is a link...because being very hypothyroid, can cause or worsen depression, which in turn can negatively impact the speech processes.
The first time that I experienced this (and I hate to tell you, but it can last a while, until treatment starts to work) was when I was under an extreme amount of work related stress (and, PTSD). While speaking with a GP Psychologist, I asked her if I had the early onset of Dementia...I did not, thank heavens (as I was too young) but it was that bad, that this was a big concern for me.
Good news is...it is treatable, and you will get better, just try not to be too hard on yourself.
Hi, thanks for reply. i am definitely depressed and extremely irritable so i recognise the impact and affect of it all, interesting that you had speech issues also, thanks for sharing, i just wanted to check that speech problems can be thyroid related..
Thanks... I don't often post replies. But I've been helped massively with other people's responses and knowing I'm not alone with the effects of this condition.
It could be undermedication—it could also be a Vitamin B12 deficiency. Or something else that needs checking out by a doctor. I think this is a symptom you should see a doctor about (though I know few of us are keen on that!).
Ah right, just read your previous posts about your head injury and then whiplash—ouch, you’ve been through it. But also saw that your B12 looked ok.
This could well be hypo related then. In your most recent set of blood tests, your FT3 didn’t look stellar (it wasn’t awful but your FT4 was right at the top of the range and your FT3 hadn’t made it to mid range).
thanks for your reply. 150mcg a day of Levo only. i was fine before the incidents and then all the symptoms became progressive including speech which has just started occurring and now also along with head and body hair shedding and lack of regrowth my beard has slowed dramatically in growing. Will have to risk seeing GP as i can't afford to see a specialist but my major concern is that she is paranoid about my TSH at 0.01 to 0.03 and i am mega concerned she will once again pressure me to reduce and that will then effectively turn me in to a zombie, but obviously there is something not right but just wondered if speech issues can be thyroid related..cheers.
Yes, GPs do seem to panic about suppressed TSH—we think a whole generation (or even 2) have been trained to believe it tells them all they need to know... 🤦🏽♀️
I can’t see if you’ve posted any iron/ferritin results anywhere—but low iron can cause hair loss, fatigue AND it limits conversion of T4 to T3. So... do you have any iron/ferritin results?
Their comments were slightly elevated T4 and low TSH and Low Vit D
The problem i have is that whenever i attempt to supplement with Vit D, Biotin for hair, B Complex i get side effects, palpitations, hand and leg tremors, wooziness borderline dizzyness so i can't supplement, i dont know if thats anything to do with whats going on, i have taken various supplements for many years before with no problems but now i cant take
Quite al ot of the symptoms i am experiencing do seem to replicate Vit B12 deficiency but it shows my active B12 as being quite good, or, has it dropped for some reason from where it was and although it's showing as quite good maybe for me it's not high enough?? havent got a clue really, i do seem to be more "woozy" borderline dizzy recently.
I have a similar history of TSH 0.05 ish for 15 yrs with FT4 top/over range FT3 nearly mid range.
I've had something similar , but different, with speech .
Whenever i do too much , all energy in muscles and it seems, brain, just crashes extremely rapidly and i can't process the descriptive word i'm after. It is really rapid ie; OK at the meat counter, carry heavy basket to till, and have to grunt and point at cashier.
When i get home i'm reduced to " it's ..... thing.......that, there...... on the .... near the ..... box ......urgggh.
Go to sleep for a while........ better again.
Or, like last GP visit........ Long walk there . physically tired, was trying to discuss historic TSH results. Was really struggling , must have sounded drunk/stupid as talking really slowly and couldn't find word for 'july' so had to resort to 'before /a bit ago'.
But then when he upset me, i got a (?) adrenaline rush and could talk about feelings with force and accuracy and speed.
But still struggled with dates /numbers.
This has happened to me for years while on Levo. When it happens you might wonder if i'd had a stroke. But it's only temporary until i've had a sleep/rest/ or cup of Hot Chocolate in an emergency with no sofa and duvet available.
My family refer to it as "mum's gone bleurgh", "don't worry , she'll be alright in a bit"
It hasn't happened for a few months recently, and that does co-incide with a slight reduction in Levo.......... however since that reduction my activity has reduced so much that it's months since i had chance to get knackered ,so i don't know ?.
I'm starting to feel better now (4 mths after Levo put back up a bit) so i will be interested to see if it comes back when i do enough activity to get tired again .
Hi, thanks for reply. I definitely recognise your comment regarding adrenaline rush and then being able to speak/articulate "normally", also the memory issue as well, same happens to me.. sometimes i can find words fairly quickly but most of the time i am word searching whilst trying to converse with people, its sooo frustrating, it's like an engine being starved of petrol and misfiring and can't function properly, my problem is i will struggle to get an increase in Levo with my GP, she would far rather i live like a zombie as long as the bloods are within those good old faithful NHS guidelines..Grrrrrrrr
Sorry to jump in here SPD1, but, sorry to hear that Tattybogle...what do your bloods suggest, ie, your blood work results? Do you think that you might benefit from a small amount of T3, in addition to the Levo?
Your description of the speech problems, are spot on with mine....when I get them...not all of the time now, thankfully.
Hi Shield-Maiden and SPD1, yes i'm sure i would probably do better on less t4 and more t3
In fact, i reckon the cause of the speech/ bleurgh thing, is my brain cells running out of T3 (petrol) as it's been used faster by physical activity........ and not being able to get enough back into brain cells immediately... (sort of 'slow' conversion issue ?)
Then, it feels like a total rest, (including from the need to maintain my body temperature) allows the brains supply of T3 to replenish and i can talk and walk at the same time again.
Unfortunately my monthly budget for essentials is already about 'minus' £60..... so no T3 on the current horizon , but i'm preparing to be a pain in the **** ,to get a trial on NHS.
Next time i find a few quid it's top of my list, but i don't think i'll start messing about with hormones until i've got a regular supply .
I react strongly to even tiny changes of levo (12.5mcg), and i've just started feeling ok ish after a 12 month game of #GP reduces Levo/ Life goes further down pan/We have an argument/ i put it back up a bit/ i feel better after 4 mths.
SPD1, , having just read your original post from a year ago..... the same is true for me..... i can tell if i've missed a dose of Levo within hours. I can find no logical explanation for this,given the long 'half life ' of T4 ........ but i've been playing this game for 17 yrs , and i'm not imagining it. I seem to remember 'helvella' gets it too.
i have an extremely sensitive system, if i miss a dose of Levo by only a few hours i get muscle twitching and then the following day i feel more tired, we seem to be the exception but that's just the way it is, all different i suppose. I'm not imagining it either
How come your GP keeps reducing and then Upping, does she listen to your symptoms or is it down to blood results, or combo?
Because FT4 kept going up ( been on same dose for yrs), ending up at 240% of range when normally i sit around 80-120% of range.....however, personally i believe this is complicated by local lab changing test machine and now using a really low and really narrow range for FT4. [7.9-14] -i asked 'diogenes' his opinion a few months back and he said he wouldn't give it houseroom !
TSH has always been lower than they would like (around 0.05 region). But they've let me get away with that for yrs.
Anyway this time i thought they may have a point, due to FT4 level . so agreed to go down from 125 to 112, even though i felt ok at the time. was paddling in sea each day , garden was growing herbs, cycling further than i had for a few yrs.
3mths later, i wasn't doing so well (and house has turned into a slattern's hovel,) at retest Tsh has raised a smidge, but FT4 has also raised !?, even though i took great care to make test conditions comparable.
GP thinks i'm lying/ taking more . Wants me to reduce further, as TSH 0.09 but FT4 22.7[7.9-14]
I ask if i can wait a few weeks before reducing again, as i'd just started to feel a bit more human and wanted to do some essential housework and put some cement around the hole that is washing the drain/house foundations away............ On further inspection it turns out the victorian builders of seaside towns didn't bother with foundations....... my 3 story terraced house is sat on 3 slates !!!! so presume next door is holding it up?
Anyway . i digress...... He say's "You'll Die ! The Dose is 100 ". I get my records and find my way here. i see my FT4 is very over range. So several weeks later i scare myself into gradually reducing to 100 because i remembered my aunty on Levo had a stroke.
Result was ~8 weeks later,totally constipated .
I tell him i've done my own research into risks of low TSH, and im going to put it back up . He say's ok , he doesn't want to make me unwell, he's put a note on my records that i understand risks, (to cover his ass,in case i drop dead ?!) then say's "how much do you want to take ?" come back in 6 mths.....
I've now been on 112 since April, felt ok ish again, for a month. Just about got it back together again, but lost too many things to mention along the way.
That's the last time i'll be scared into doing as told rather than following my instincts.
We seem to have reached ' an understanding', although i suppose i'm not giving him much choice, as he knows i'll take what i want.
My T3/T4 ratio's have been;
63%/108% through lab ref range FT3/FT4
36%/84%
41%/59%
32%/66%
54%/111%
Sadly on the one occasion i actually felt overmedicated ,FT3 wasn't done. and these are from so long ago i dont really know how i felt. But i've effectively had something like ME/cfs from about 4 yrs after being on Levo. which i now suspect might have been improved with more T3/less T4.
I was on 150 for about 15 yrs, then in 2016 i was definately a bit over medicated symptom wise- slight tremor,10 visits to the loo before i could leave the house etc and a reduction to 125 followed.
But i've never been as good since then.
To be honest , it's impossible to say if i was better on 125 than now, on 112. because 12 mths ago i was active as long as i kept my activity sustainable, but since i've just spent about 9 mths mostly on the sofa and got pissed off about everything falling apart financially while my garden dies, i'm rather less fit anyway , regardless of thyroid hormones.
And then there's the ' Global Pandemic effect' which is tricky to quantify.
I get the same as you with symptoms of over and under med at the same time...... it must be tricky for your GP since you're a bloke...... with us ladies they can just blame it all on menopause..... what do they blame your inexplicable symptoms on if you're a man ?
I have been on 150mcg daily for about 15 years as well, i was absolutely fine until the head impact, i was knocked momentarily unconscious and then had a very bad car
accident(wrote car off) 4 months later, so 2 very bad whiplash's in the last 18 months or so there is a chance i have knocked out my pituitary or thyroid in some way as i didnt have the arm and leg tremors, muscle twitching, palpitations, breathlessness, blurred vision and alarming hair loss, which then developed in to eyebrow, under arm hair, pubic hair loss as well, i think my arm and leg hair seems less as well and very recently my beard growth has slowed dramatically, so a lot has happened which makes it quite difficult to get to the bottom of.
The tremors come and go, i also have transitory leg weakness, its weird. i have read lots of posts on here where people have some of my symptoms but nowhere near all of them so i'm not sure it's quite as simple as i'm over or under medicated, i really don't know what to think, i just think it's too coincidental that i didnt start with these problems until the 2 incidents, very confusing.
I'm slowly forming the opinion that for some of us , Levo alone works adequately for 10/15 yrs even without good Conversion from T4 to T3..... but then our body stops being able to manage ..... and so probably we should try to get FT4/FT3 to a more natural balance . healthy people have more Ft3 than FT4
I,ve read many tales here that start with "i was on Xmcg Levo for 10/15 yrs, but then..."
I'm interested to hear the same story from a male , because of course menopause will affect things for women , and this is often going to be around the same time as 10/15 yrs on Levo because so many of us get diagnosed Hypo after having a kid. So how to say if it's menopause/ body not managing on Levo anymore/both ?
But menopause not a factor for you.... although i suspect rattling the brain is not a good idea either. Rattling his brain in a car crash has had a big impact on my brother who doesn't have any thyroid probs. More in the getting tired /angry/overwhelmed with too much stimulus dept. rather than the hair falling off/leg tremor/palpitations dept.
And of course the ultimate irony is that i do believe i'm starting to grow a beard......but i have tweezers so no ones going to know, and i'll deny i said that.
i just feel it's probably too much of a coincidence that i was really good up until i had the head impact which was absolutely sickening and i have since learnt from the guys i play with that they think i might have momentarily lost consciousness, the whiplash was bad for 2 weeks and then the car accident which resulted in another 2 weeks of whiplash apart from the shock value and impact. I know Barry Peatfield mentions in his book that whiplash can affect the thyroid but because its a slow onset and symptoms can perhaps not start to show for months afterwards that the medical profession does not join the dots. I responded to SlowDragon about my energy levels and not feeling overly tired at all which is really confusing to have all these symptoms but the usual lack of energy and overwhelming tiredness that can be associated with thyroid issues is not currently one of them, the only real difference i have noted as far as that is concerned is i am waking every morning at 5am religiously and can not get back to sleep and around 9pm every evening i struggle to keep my eyes open, i close them for about 15 minutes and then i seem ok for the rest of the evening, its bizarre. WELL confused.
p.s, plus after the head impact it gave me tinnitus which i still have and never, ever suffered with before and it has left me with transitory "woozyness" on the edge of being dizzy along with the other symptoms, Fed Up and WELL down
I’ve been getting mine in Germany, France and Belgium but need prescription. But very cheap. Just been given source that doesn’t need prescription. Message me and we can talk. Lynn
Recommend you get full thyroid and vitamin testing privately.....don’t involve the GP
That way you get control of how and when you test ....and if you choose to give them results
TSH 0.017 (range 0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3 4.35 (range 3.1 - 6.8)
Free Thyroxine 22.3 (range 12 - 22)
Ft3 was only 34% through range in last test ....that’s likely too low
Ft4 a bit high
You probably need to tweak levothyroxine down a notch and add in small doses of T3 alongside levothyroxine
Email Dionne at Thyroid UK for list of recommend thyroid specialist endocrinologists who will prescribe T3
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).
Is this how you do your tests?
Vitamin D far too low .....improving vitamin levels can result in being increasingly hypo, if under medicated....as when vitamin levels are optimal it’s easier to use thyroid hormones
i always take my Levo at around 11.30 to 12 midnight every night, that last Medi checks blood draw was at 10am the following morning (fasted) so there was less than 24 hours in between (i now know it has to be at least 24hrs) how much do you think that would have compromised giving a "True" result, ? is it likely to have given a false T4 T3 and TSH ? or not made that much of a difference?
I know my Vit D needs to be supplemented the problem is i am reacting with side effects every time i try and supplement, i get palpitations, go hot and sweaty and get some hand and leg tremors irrespective of what i attempt supplementing with, be it Vit D, B complex, Biotin, it ridiculous really or could it be that because i'm under medicated that's why i am reacting?
TSH won’t be affected by last dose being 12 hours....but Ft4 will be ...Ft3 probably not affected
If you normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test
If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal
I couldn’t tolerate any vitamin D until took magnesium supplements for 2-3 weeks first (more on my profile). I still supplement magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin B complex everyday ...otherwise levels drop
Vitamin D needs magnesium as co factor. Any magnesium must be four hours away from levothyroxine...so early evening.....if taking levothyroxine at bedtime
When first start vitamin B complex can initially make feel very wired .....lasts 3-5 days ....
Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Easy to cut into 1/4’s ......perhaps start on 1/4 tablet.....two weeks ....then half tablet for two weeks etc
Remember to stop taking any supplements that contain biotin a week before any blood tests
As tattybogle said ......many of us “managed” on levothyroxine for years/decades....but, for what ever reason, even with good vitamin levels, conversion seems to diminish as we age
Also, low TSH does seem to affect conversion...but if on high enough dose of levothyroxine, TSH is often suppressed. Catch 22...if you reduce levothyroxine, conversion improves, but not on high enough dose
What i'm really struggling with is although i'm getting so many symptoms my energy levels don't actually seem to have dropped noticeably at all, no where near as bad as when i first went on Levo 18 odd years ago, i'm not overly tired the way i was before going on Levo so i'm really surprised and confused as to why i am experiencing so many symptoms but significant tiredness and overall lack of energy are not really an issue, plus to be losing head hair to the extent that it looks like i will be bald in a couple of months given the fall rate which is absolutely ludicrous given the volume of hair i have always been really lucky to have all my life, and it's affected under arm hair, chest hair, pubic hair, arm and leg hair and now my beard growth has slowed dramatically, i have noticed lots of posts on here about hair loss but it always seems to be that most people experience head and eyebrow loss but not seen anyone else posting about noticeable loss elsewhere on the body, i can't get my head round if its so excessive why aren't i displaying far more tiredness and lack of energy symptoms that you would probably expect if it was purely thyroid, i'm baffled..
I really wanted to sit down face to face with my GP as there is so much going on with me rather than a snatched phone conversation which is all i can have at the moment re covid. I am worried sick though that she will immediately jump on the fact that my TSH is 0.01 - 0.03 as she is always trying to get me to reduce Levo dose but i have always argued my case, however with all these symptoms it plays in to her hands and i am worried she wont investigate further or send me to an Endo, mind you an NHS Endo will take months.. i think i'm probably stuffed with this. my gut instinct is that the 2 incidents but probably the head impact primarily has damaged something, pituitary possibly, thyroid maybe but as i mentioned i don't understand why the overwhelming tiredness and fatigue has not returned that i had prior to first going on Levo whilst whatever has happened is causing all the other symptoms. If it was low cortisol would i not be feeling tired with no energy? its baffling.
I will have to take a risk with GP as can't carry on like this and will ask for Full Pituitary test..
Hi SPD1-welcome to the forum. I'm new to this too.
I find that my voice gets hoarse quickly, more softly spoken at times and talking can get exhausting at times (although the latter might just be assuring my mum that 'im ok'!' )
i have found in the past that even if i accidentally for get to take my thyroxine one day it can affect my voice, thyroidism has an impact and affect on so many aspects.
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