T3 - Pain in the calf -Why?

I feel pretty good on T3 only BUT I have strange pains in my calves / legs. What’s the reason for that and what can I do?

[Singoutloud]

There are many reasons for calf pain not related to thyroid. Can you be more specific.

What type of pain is it and how severe? When does it happen. Does activity or inactivity make it worse. Have you injured yourself or pulled a muscle? If its cramp you could be dehydrated.

This link might help give some clues but there are plenty of other sites you can check to narrow down the cause

healthdirect.gov.au/calf-pain

[fuchsia-pink]

I have lower leg pain when I'm under-medicated - apparently it's pretty classic.

Do you have any recent blood tests to share?

[Hidden in reply to fuchsia-pink]

It feels like a serious musclecat - without doing any sports. I hadn’t this before I started with Thyroid Medication. All my other parameters became better like Temperature, Wakefulness, Energy ect.

Currently I take 50mcg (Man with 85kg). I tried higher dosages but that makes me feel weird and a little breathless. All infos I have found in the internet are pointing to leg pain= (still) Hypo?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Looking at previous posts you don’t appear to have had any vitamin testing

Obviously need to regularly retest FULL thyroid if taking any replacement thyroid hormones.

Almost any dose of T3, even a tin6 one, is likely to reduce your own thyroid output

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

You may need to get full Thyroid testing privately as NHS refuses to test TG antibodies if TPO antibodies are negative

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

If taking levothyroxine...

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

If/when on T3, make sure to take last third or half of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test

Is this how you do your tests?

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin

medichecks.com/products/thy...

Medichecks often have special offers, if order on Thursdays

Thriva Thyroid plus vitamins

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

[Hidden in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks Slow Dragon, the vitamin levels mentioned are all at the upper level. I have done countless tests here in the past. Even before the thyroid medication, I have been dealing with vitamins and minerals for a long time and have filled up almost everything. But unfortunately did almost nothing in the end. Only the T3 works like a miracle for me. The approach of Paul Robinson fits me best. He also recommends not to do thyroid tests anymore - since they are only moderately helpful under T3 - and to pay more attention to the sensations.

Now I try to understand in a very physical way why of all things the calves hurt but no other muscle? The answer from Jamesal is helpful but what should I do now?

[jamesal0]

@ Sven T3 and NDT contain the active form of thyroid. Taking it cranks up natural cannibalism that takes place constantly in our bodies (we replace nearly all cells every couple of years). When we take T4 only the body only converts just enough T4 each hour, where as when we use T3 or NDT we actually over dose for a few hours. During this time we slightly damage tendons, bone fat and muscle. Do this enough and we begin to feel some minor pains or even become more prone to tears, osteo etc . This is also the reason people loose weight on NDT.

If you are worried, just back off on the T3 a little for a week and see if the pain goes away. Your body will convert T4 if it needs more, although you may feel a bit crappy as we get hooked on T3/NDT as the body doesn't have to work to make it (T3).

J

[jamesal0 in reply to jamesal0]

@ Sven Sorry one more thing - don't get me wrong, I love NDT, I feel great and thrive on the stuff. But you need to drive NDT and T3 products with side effects -

ie

Thyroid hurts = I need more NDT because my Pituitary gland is whacking my poor old buggered Thyroid gland for more juice and it can't do it.

Calf/tendon/fingertip/foot pads pain = too much T3

Low temp = take more T3/T4

Weird electrical sensation when touching (macbook) cold metal surfaces = take more T3/T4

Joint pains = not enough T3/T4

[Sampydoodle in reply to jamesal0]

That’s interesting re electrical sensation! Do you mean a small shock type sensation when touching MacBook , metal door handle etc? I have been struggling with this for a while and can’t explain it but hadn’t heard of it being T3 related. I suspect I’m under medicated with my T3 only but unable to get supplies at moment.

[jamesal0 in reply to Sampydoodle]

@Sam - for me it is a sort of slight buzzy feel in my finger tips - particulary if you drag/swirl your fingers over cover . I've repaired TVs and computers for 30 years and I would have previously described it as a slight electrical leakage from a faulty component in the high voltage part of an old school TV. I was so concerned I spent $100 on a new power pack for my macbook. But it was taking more NDT that fixed me. Can you get T3 online ?

[dtate2016 in reply to jamesal0]

So happy to catch this info on T3 and “cannibalism”! I’ve recently developed tendinitis in one elbow - no apparent / outside reason. However....it just quite coincidentally coincides with a switch from NDT (which suddenly ceased to work for me after more than 20 years) to Levothyroxine (100 mcg) and bovine T3 (100 mcg.) TSH climbed to 48 before being forced to abandon NatureThroid.

Also appreciate the thoughts on leaving testing behind / paying less attention to testing than how one feels! (Drs force testing in order to acquire precious prescription for T4) To say that it is beyond abysmal to have to endure the crude and ineffective advice / treatment of mainstream medicine (circa 1950’s) is an understatement. Hence, the knowledge here and elsewhere becomes all that much more valuable and necessary. Again - thanks!

Next steps for me: backing off T3 a couple of days in an experiment to see what happens to tendinitis; working towards a solution that frees me from Levothyroxine / and the dark ages of “professional” medicine as concerns thyroid illness.

You guys are the greatest!

[TSH110]

I presume a musclecat is what I call cramp. I have been plagued by it in the legs and feet. It has improved on medication (I take NDT I never felt well in Levothyroxine alone). I was given quinine (I had malaria in my 20’s and knew I had tolerated it well when I was treated with it) which I have found very effective - stops it dead in minutes, but it has gone out of favour and is claimed to be ineffective - in my case it is very efficacious. Lack of magnesium is supposed to cause it too but studies don’t show it to be effective bar with pregnant women. I eat lots of almonds and now take some magnesium malate every day. Not had any cramp since starting the magnesium it’s only c33% rda I take. I still take quinine if I get a bad attack. It still works. My gp is ok about prescribing it, one packet has lasted me well over a year but it sounds like it’s no longer prescribed for cramp. It can have nasty side effects. The following article is interesting:

nps.org.au/news/magnesium-a...

[Hidden in reply to TSH110]

Thanks TSH!

I already take ~ 200-400mg MagMalate - but it also does nothing regarding the sore calves.

[TSH110 in reply to Hidden]

That’s a shame it has not helped. I had a look at this rather intimidating scientific paper, it looks like causes of cramp and other muscle disorders are very complicated:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

They mention DIO2 quite a lot and I have the mutation that causes poor conversion from T4 to T3 perhaps this has played a part in my case. Mine are always at night. I had them in the day time too but only on Levothyroxine, in both legs at once a couple of times horrendous could not even stand up to try and stamp it out! Thought I was going to die! But I didn’t 😉

[Christabel in reply to TSH110]

I recently had a cramp in the calf at night for the first time in my life. I put it down to doing a bit more walking than usual, but this is all very interesting.

[jamesal0 in reply to Hidden]

@Sven - I'm the same - tried Magnesium, B12, D, Iron, Glucosamine, ginkgo bilobba,Iodine, curumin, Liposomal Gluteathione, Molybdenm Glycinate, S-Acetyl L-Glutathinione. I tried them all, and nothing. What I keep coming back to is getting my thyroid medication "dose" right on the day. This week it has been 60mg NDT and 25mcg Levo. But then last couple of nights I couldn't sleep and had mild 10pm heart palps. I'll drop the Levo for a few days. I havnt been doing as much exercise and havnt been burning as much thyroid. Hence slight overdose

[shaws Administrator]

I take T3 alone. Since I began instead - of T4/T3 - I have been well with no clinical symptoms.

[dtate2016 in reply to shaws]

Shaw’s: Have often appreciated your super advice, experience and wisdom, re: Thyroid treatment.

Recently had a T-4 only Dr. insist that T3 treatment of any sort causes heart disease / damage.

Would so appreciate your thoughts on that. Personally, my experience has been just the opposite! On T4 only - blood pressure goes up and chest pains appear, crushing chest pains. I know when thyroid treatment is on course by the ABSENCE of heart symptoms.

Again your personal experience / opinion is requested.

Thanks!