Thyroid Suppression? Hashimotos & armour

[hollieerin]

I am 25 years old, and was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s about 3 years ago. I have been on 60mg of Armour for about 2 years and have felt amazing, I was then bumped up to 75mg about 5 months ago as I started having extreme fatigue again, sleeping 10 hours per night and feeling exhausted.

I went to my doctor about about a month ago and had gained 20lbs in a very short amount of time, my fatigue was worse, sleeping 12hr per night and still exhausted, needing to nap, brain fog. All the signs that my meds were too low. However my bloods show that the meds are too high. Dr lowered armour from 75 to 60, it’s been about 3 weeks and symptoms have worsened on the lower dose.

Dr. Told me the meds were too high which caused my thyroid to be suppressed... I can’t find any Information about this online? Anyone have any links or info about meds being too high and causing these symptoms!?

I am going absolutely crazy and have been so so patient with my Dr. I am also on a wait list to see and endocrinologist but it’s will be 5 months or more before I’m seen.

Dr switched me over to 75 levothyroxine and 10 Liothyronine today.

Please help! I am feeling so defeated today, I cried in the doctors office and everything but I’m so tired of feeling like crap and being told to be patient.

Results over this year:

Ranges:

T3: (2.3 - 4.4)

T4: (0.6 - 1.6)

TSH: (0.49 - 4.67)

January 9th:

T3: 2.5

T4: 0.9

TSH: 2.7

February 26:

TSH: 0.99

May 14:

T3: 3.6

T4: 0.8

TSH: 6.93

December 6th:

T3: 6.0

T4: 1.0

TSH: 0.04

December 18:

TSH: 0.50

T3 & T4 results not posted online yet

I have gained 20lbs since August, And in the last few months I have been sleeping for 12 hours per night and I’m exhausted. I feel my medicine is too long as I’m having horrible symptoms associated with HYPO not HYPER

[Lora7again]

I'm afraid your doctor has no idea how to treat thyroid disease because he is going by the TSH alone which is infact a pituitary hormone not a thyroid hormone. They start to panic if they see a suppressed TSH which can mean something if you have Graves' disease like me .... funny they never spotted mine which was suppressed for over 2 years it was 0.002 and I was very ill but was sent away with hormone patches. You can read my story on my profile page. You need to increase your medication straight away before you become more hypothyroid. Strange how some Doctors want patients who have had their thyroid removed because of cancer to have a suppressed TSH .... work that one out! Anyway I know a few people who have had a suppressed TSH for years and are on NDT and are doing very well. The doctor should be dosing you according to your T4 and T3 and not your TSH. Could you post your blood results please, they need to include your TSH, T4 and T3. Also thyroid patients always have low vitamin levels which can affect how the medication works so we need to see your B12, Iron and Ferritin, Vitamin D and Folate levels because they might be too low. Hopefully some other members who are much more knowledgeable than me will be along to advise you as well.

[hollieerin in reply to Lora7again]

Thank you so much for your reply! I will absolutely get my lab work uploaded first thing in the morning, hopefully that will help.

My iron, b12, vit D all seem to be normal every time it’s tested, but will upload those too. not sure if I have had folate or ferritin tested for a while

[hollieerin in reply to Lora7again]

Results over this year:

Ranges:

T3: (2.3 - 4.4)

T4: (0.6 - 1.6)

TSH: (0.49 - 4.67)

January 9th:

T3: 2.5

T4: 0.9

TSH: 2.7

February 26:

TSH: 0.99

May 14:

T3: 3.6

T4: 0.8

TSH: 6.93

December 6th:

T3: 6.0

T4: 1.0

TSH: 0.04

December 18:

TSH: 0.50

T3 & T4 results not posted online yet

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

If/when also on T3, make sure to take last 5mcg dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time of splitting dose day before test

If on NDT split dose, last dose 8-12 hours before blood test

Is this how you do your tests?

Most Hashimoto's patients have low vitamin levels unless supplementing

What vitamin supplements do you currently take?

Are you on strictly gluten free diet

[hollieerin in reply to SlowDragon]

Updated with my results:

Ranges:

T3: (2.3 - 4.4)

T4: (0.6 - 1.6)

TSH: (0.49 - 4.67)

January 9th:

T3: 2.5

T4: 0.9

TSH: 2.7

February 26:

TSH: 0.99

May 14:

T3: 3.6

T4: 0.8

TSH: 6.93

December 6th:

T3: 6.0

T4: 1.0

TSH: 0.04

December 18:

TSH: 0.50

T3 & T4 results not posted online yet

[greygoose]

I think your doctor is a little confused, like most of them.

Dr. Told me the meds were too high which caused my thyroid to be suppressed...

It does sometimes happen that when you start taking thyroid hormone replacement of any kind, that your thyroid is stop producing thyroid hormone itself. The dose doesn't have to be too high. It can - and often does - happen when you start on 25 mcg levo. BUT that doesn't cause symptoms in and of itself. And, if your levels are too high or too low, it will show up in a blood test, and doses can be adjusted to compensate for the loss of whatever the thyroid was making. It is not a reason to reduce your dose. I think your doctor is half remembering something he heard in med school, and making up the rest. They do tend to make it up as they go along, I find. You can see it in their eyes. lol

Unfortunately, endos don't tend to know much more about thyroid than GPs. Most of them are diabetes specialists with scant knowledge of thyroid, and a few crazy ideas. So, don't bank too much on your endo visit. Are you buying your own NDT? If so, what do you need a doctor for? You couldn't make a worse mess of it on your own.

Be interesting to see your latest blood test results. Bet they haven't even tested the FT3, the most important number - especially when you're taking T3. And you can't know if you're over-medicated if you don't even see the FT3.

[hollieerin in reply to greygoose]

Updated with my results over the last year:

Results over this year:

Ranges:

T3: (2.3 - 4.4)

T4: (0.6 - 1.6)

TSH: (0.49 - 4.67)

January 9th 2019:

T3: 2.5

T4: 0.9

TSH: 2.7

February 26:

TSH: 0.99

May 14:

T3: 3.6

T4: 0.8

TSH: 6.93

December 6th:

T3: 6.0

T4: 1.0

TSH: 0.04

December 18:

TSH: 0.50

T3 & T4 results not posted online yet

[greygoose in reply to hollieerin]

So, which are the results that made him think you're over-medicated?

[hollieerin in reply to greygoose]

The results on December 6th:

T3: 6.0

T4: 1.0

TSH: 0.04

The he moved me from 75 armour down to 60 armour after my results came back on the 6th, so about 10 day later we tested and my TSH came back up slightly.

December 18:

TSH: 0.50

My T3 & T4 results not posted online yet.

[greygoose in reply to hollieerin]

OK, so your FT3 was a bit high. But that could have been due to the Hashi's, and nothing to do with your dose.

Had you increased your dose before that result?

10 days later is far, far too soon to test. It proves nothing. You need to wait at least six weeks. In six weeks time, your TSH will probably be even higher. It moves very slowly.

[hollieerin in reply to greygoose]

Yikes, thank you so much.

I kept questioning my primary about this, because I feel horrible, gained 25-30lbs, completely exhausted and they are saying it is because the medicine is too high and it’s suppressing my thyroid... But I feel it’s too low or feel like my Hashimoto had a huge flare up.

I kept asking why I would be gaining weight so quickly when I workout, eat clean, etc and they said it was suppression?!

[greygoose in reply to hollieerin]

they are saying it is because the medicine is too high and it’s suppressing my thyroid...

Well, that's absolute rubbish, of course. It really doesn't make any different to your symptoms whether the thyroid is suppressed or not. It's the level of the FT3 that causes symptoms, if it's too high or too low. I think they're just fobbing you off - sounds like a good theory to anyone that knows nothing about thyroid! And, this is why we have to learn about our disease, so they can't get away with spouting rubbish like this!

But I feel it’s too low or feel like my Hashimoto had a huge flare up.

Those are two opposites: if you have a Hashi's flare, your FT4/3 go high, not low.

[hollieerin in reply to greygoose]

Do you know of any other reasons I would be this exhausted & gaining weight so quickly?

[greygoose in reply to hollieerin]

Being under-medicated, for one thing. Having nutritional deficiencies for another.

From your results, it looks like you've had a Hashi's 'hyper' swing, but in general, you're just under-medicated. By a doctor that doesn't understand thyroid and has no idea what he's doing.

[hollieerin in reply to greygoose]

Do you have any suggested articles or websites that discuss hashimotos swings?

This is the first time I’m hearing that term so I would love to educate myself more!

What does my high T3 mean?

6.0 on December 6th results

[greygoose in reply to hollieerin]

Your high T3 means that you were probably leeching hormone from your thyroid into the blood, causing the level to rise. That is if you hadn't taken extra T3 at that point, or left too little time between your last dose and the blood draw.

I don't know of any sites that discuss Hashi's 'hyper' swings, but here is something I wrote myself as a response to someone else:

Hashi's is an autoimmune disease, where the immune system attacks and slowly destroys the thyroid.

After every attack, the dying cells release their stock of thyroid hormone into the blood stream, causing the levels of the Frees to shoot up - FT4 to around 30 something, FT3 around 11/12 - and the TSH therefore drops to suppressed.

There is no knowing how long these high levels will persist, but eventually, they will drop by themselves as the excess hormone is used up or excreted, and not only will you become hypo again, but slightly more hypo than before, because there is now less thyroid to make hormone.

(NB: A Hashi's 'hyper' swing is not true hyperthyroidism in that your thyroid is over-producing thyroid hormone. It's physically impossible to 'go hyper' if you are basically hypo. The thyroid cannot regenerate itself to the point of over production of hormones - or even normal production. Very few doctors appear to know that.)

Therefore, it's very important that your doctor does not reduce your prescription, because you’re going to need it again! If you start to feel over-medicated at that point - some do, some don't - the best thing is to stop levo for a few days, then, when you feel hypo again, start taking it again. It's very important to know one's body, and how it reacts.

There is no cure for Hashi's - which is probably one of the reasons that doctors ignore it - apart from the fact that they know nothing about it, of course!

However, between the 'hyper' swing, and the descent back into hypothyroidism, there can be a phase - quite a long one, sometimes - of normality, where the person is neither hypo nor 'hyper'. This is where people sometimes start talking of having 'cured' their Hashi's, by whatever means. But, it doesn't last. Eventually, you will go hypo again.

But, there are things the patient can do for him/herself to help them feel a bit better.

a) adopt a 100% gluten-free diet. Hashi's people are often sensitive to gluten, even if they don't have Coeliac disease, so stopping it can make them feel much better. Worth a try. Some say that going gluten-free will reduce antibodies – I’ve never seen conclusive proof of that, but, you should be aware that even if you get rid of the antibodies, you will still have Hashi's, because the antibodies are not the disease.

b) take selenium. This is not only reputed to reduce antibodies, but can also help with conversion of T4 to T3 - something that Hashi's people often find difficult.

c) the best way to even out the swings from hypo to 'hyper' (often called Hashi's Flares, but that doesn't really sum up the way it works) is to keep the TSH suppressed. This is difficult because doctors are terrified by a suppressed TSH, for various false reasons, and because they don't understand the workings of Hashi's. But, TSH - Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (a pituitary hormone) - tries to stimulate the thyroid to make more hormone, but it also stimulates the immune system to attack. So, the less gland activity there is, the less immune system activity there will be, meaning less attacks, gland destruction slowed down and less swinging from hypo to hyper and back.